Slalom Ski Design

BigBoatinOkie

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Re: Slalom Ski Design

C1C, good stuff.

BBO, in terms of your HO vs. the Big Daddy, slowing down might allow it to ride lower in the water and roll over on edge, but obviously it's width is going to be working against that.

It would be really interesting for you to be able to try some of the shaped skis like the HO Freeride (Magnum is 70 or 71") or Connelly FX, or HO Triumph, O'Brien Synchro. Wider up front but narrower in the tail. OR some of the traditional slaloms that are narrower overall, but available in a 70" length: Connelly HP or O'Brien World Team are a couple of those.

Okay, here's the deal, I can still return the big daddy for a full refund. I'm seriously thinking about returning that baby and getting something else. I found a 70" Connelly FX for roughly the same price with better bindings than the Big Daddy has. Basically it'll just be an even trade, and free shipping. What do you think? What do you think of the Connelly Outlaw? It comes in 69", also for roughly the same price.
 

craze1cars

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Re: Slalom Ski Design

Well, there are several world champion slolam skiers who ski 36-off with a rear toe plate. The bindings are purely a personal preference thing. I have ridden on skis with double boots, high wraps, and rear toe-plates. Most of the time I don't see much of a difference as long as my form doesn't change.

Absolutely. As I said, the double-boot is essentially my crutch to help me reach a buoy I'd otherwise miss...as I'm certainly no world champion. I do notice a difference when I lose that back boot, and very likely it is because of some problem with my form that I will never take the time to correct. My prime days of slalom are long gone...my body just can't pull that hard anymore...

Bindings are indeed personal preference and nothing more.
 

craze1cars

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Re: Slalom Ski Design

BigboatingOkie....

We still don't know your weight...not to get personal, but it makes a big difference...hard to give advice without that piece of info.

In general, I'm not a fan of those big wide skis. They excel at one thing...getting a really big guy out of a deepwater start more easily. Beyond that, they don't work very well. Seems that you have already realized the same when you compared it to your HO combo ski...

I used to slalom quite a bit...teens and early 20's. Took 10 years off and gained some weight/lost some conditioning. At about 205 pounds, I got another boat and got back on the water. At that time I invested in an HO Charger slalom (that's a 69" version of HO's shaped Freeride ski...the same as Magnum/Burner, just different length). Many recommended it to me because it was "a little bit wider than most to be easier on your body for heavier weight, AND it still could turn aggressively." I only found the first half of that sentence to be true. Could not get it to turn well at all.

One day I borrowed my buddies ski, which was a conventional competition slalom...Obrien I think, 68 inches, normal/narrow width. I got up no problem and I could actually roll it ont edge again!! Night and day.

So then I invested in the 68" Connelly Concept I have now and I'm back to being much happier. In the 6-ish years since then I have slowly worked my way back to about 185 pounds and got some conditioning back. And I definitely will never ride the Charger again unless I have a relapse...

I still have that Charger sitting here against the wall, it's a backup for when a bigger newbie wants to come along and try a deepwater start, and do some casual open-water one-skiing. But beyond that function I have found no good use for it. It simply does not roll over onto its edge without giving it a significant amount of extra effort, compared to a more competition style ski. I just find it more difficult to ride if you actually want to do some hard turning and big sprays. And that Charger is smaller than your Big Daddy...I can't even imagine trying to roll that one on edge...but to be fair I've never ridden one.

If you want a ski you can more likely grow into, and improve with, I think you'll probably want to get rid of that Big Daddy...I would suspect either of the two you're considering replacing it with (FX or Outlaw) will be much better and more fun for you, assuming you're relatively athletic and are somewhere less than 250 pounds...AND you have a boat that can pull you strong enough to get you out of the water on less surface area. I really find that the more traditional competition-style slalom skis are far more versatile and maneuverable with less effort. They turn and slice thru the wakes SOOOO much easier. BUT they are a little bit more squirlley/twitchey when going straight, harder to get up on, and a bit more difficult to just "ride around" casually on water, if you're not much into cutting real hard turns.

BUT, I'm making a lot of assumptions here since I don't know you...If you are perfectly happy just cruising the lake on one ski and drifting back and forth recreationally, the Big Daddy might be for you, and that's great! But from your earlier comments, it sounds like you'd rather have "more fun" that that. So I think a narrower and less shaped ski will more likely fit your desires. but you're the only one who knows your style, and whether or not you want to work on/improve in the sport, or just enjoy the few times a year you'll get to do it. Nothing wrong with ANY method of skiing...whatever floats yer boat!!
 

skibrain

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Re: Slalom Ski Design

I wish I could say I've skied on either the Outlaw or the FX to make a recommendation.
The 69" Outlaw is the only one of those two that shown on their current website. In terms of total size I also can't say if the FX 70" is bigger or smaller.

Call a shop that sells Connelly(like Darren at Wileys, or Tadd at H2osmosis Sports) and see what they would say.
 

BigBoatinOkie

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Re: Slalom Ski Design

Thanks so much for the input guys, I like talking about skis.:)

A bit about myself: I'm 27 yrs old 6'3" about 265lb, (depending on how big breakfast was ;)) I'm quite athletic and strong, but fairly out of shape at the moment. I'm very new to the sport, but I think I'm getting the hang of it pretty good for the amount of time I've spent doing it without any coaching, and though I don't do too much hard cutting at the moment, I feel like I will be getting quite a bit more aggressive as I progress. Just cruising around isn't going to cut it for much longer. My boat is 228 hp with an 18p 4 blade and gets out of the hole pretty good especially with the addition of trim tabs. It pulls up my brother and I at 265 lb each on combo skis at the same time without any trouble, so it ought to pull up one 265 pounder on one ski just fine. As mentioned before, I won't be hitting the slalom course, but I will be trying to make some pretty aggressive turns and big sprays. When I do watersports, I play until my muscles won't let me play anymore, then drag my sore behind outta bed the next morning and hit it hard again.

That should give you some idea about my size, athleticism, skill level, and intentions. Hope it helps.

102_1619.jpg


102_1624.jpg
 

SeanT

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Re: Slalom Ski Design

I'm 6'5" and anywhere from 280 to 300 pounds during the summer months. The lowest I've ever weighed is 260, and that's pretty trim for me.

When I wakeboard I pull on the tower REALLY hard. I've actually caused some gell coat cracking on only ONE side of my boat (the side I cut harder on).

I would imagine that I should probably stick with at least a Big Daddy if I really want to get a slalom ski? Oakie, what would you say if you had 40 more pounds on your frame?

I'm fairly in shape (thanks to still playing competitive rugby), though getting old. No trouble at all wakeboarding or kneeboarding, or combo skis.
 

BigBoatinOkie

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Re: Slalom Ski Design

I would imagine that I should probably stick with at least a Big Daddy if I really want to get a slalom ski? Oakie, what would you say if you had 40 more pounds on your frame?

I don't know Shawn, if you think you would want to ski at 30# mph and still make some cuts, I'm thinkin the Big Daddy will still hold you back. Sounds like you're probably built like me, tall, a little overweight, but strong and athletic, and pretty agile for your rather large size. In other words, you don't weigh 280 because you're big fatty, but muscular with a little cushion on top. Is that about right? If you just want easy deep water starts and then just cruise around, pulling hard outside the wake and then just drifting back across the wakes, then the Big Daddy will be fine. When I'm skiing the big daddy at 30mph, it just wants to ride flat on top of the water. No matter how far I tried to lean back on the thing, I couldn't get the tail to dig in the water. Now, my technique is terrible, but I feel like I need the tail down in the water a bit for a little drag to keep me stable and to keep the rope tight. Not bogged down, but not just skimming the surface either. Does that make any sense? That maybe totally wrong, idk. Bottom line, it's great on deepwater starts but too much surface area for much actual slalom skiing. I'm not so concerned with deepwater starts if the rest of the ride is not going to be fun. If you don't mind dropping a ski, I'd suggest going with something else. Then maybe once we get more conditioned to slalom skiing, the deepwater starts won't be so difficult on a little smaller ski. That's my 2 cents Shawn. Hope it helps bro.:)
 

SeanT

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Re: Slalom Ski Design

Yeah, that's about right. I'm just thinking too much I think. I have a set of decent Connelly combos. I haven't given any serious attempts at single ski deep water starts. Maybe I'll give it a real try and get some time on my existing ski before I start buying other ones.

Good advice Oakie, thanks!
 

BigBoatinOkie

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Re: Slalom Ski Design

Yeah, that's about right. I'm just thinking too much I think. I have a set of decent Connelly combos. I haven't given any serious attempts at single ski deep water starts. Maybe I'll give it a real try and get some time on my existing ski before I start buying other ones.

Good advice Oakie, thanks!

Lol! I'm always over thinking stuff, hence this thread.:rolleyes: I'm sure it'll still take a larger than average ski for us to be successful at the deepwater starts, but the Big D is just a little over the top. However, the Big D did help me figure out HOW to do a deepwater start, and now since I've got my own deepwater starting style down, I can apply that to a little smaller ski and I believe I will still be successful. As some of the others have mentioned before, a 69-70 inch ski and maybe a little wider body than normal, should still do the trick without sacrificing much performance. I still don't know what I'm gonna get, but skibrain had some good recommendations that I will look into pretty seriously. Also, after some switching back and forth from my HO with front boot binding to the adjustable front binding on the BigD, I much prefer a boot on the front. I won't be getting double boots because I have to drag a foot, but I really like my front foot being nice and snug. The Connelly adjustable front binding is cheap crap, I would advise anyone to go ahead and get the better binding if you're thinking about a Connelly ski.
 

SeanT

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Re: Slalom Ski Design

I was reading on the Connelly site today that they have a return guarantee for their shaped skis. Is that what you are going to take advantage of? I think you are supposed to be able to return the Big Daddy, Pilot, or Outlaw for full credit towards any of their other skis.

I was also reading that HO has their Magnum, which comes in 70". It's supposed to be more intermediate than the Charger, which is for beginners.

I looked at some other sites like OBrien, but it seems like HO and Connelly are the only companies that are trying to make skis for bigger guys.
 

BigBoatinOkie

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Re: Slalom Ski Design

Shawn, I bought the ski from Amazon and I can return it for a full refund within 30 days of purchase if I choose. If I decide to go with another Connelly, I will probably just use the performance gaurantee and trade it in, and if I go with a different brand, I will just do the refund. I gotta decide by Sept. 4th or I'm stuck with it. I think I'm leaning toward the HO Triumph at the moment.
 

craze1cars

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Re: Slalom Ski Design

BBO, in my opinion you're leaning in the right direction...either of the Connellys or the HO Triumph. I bet any of them would make you much happier than the Big Daddy you have now. As for which one of the three? Crap shoot. I can't help you there...

I hestiate to give much more advice on this because you are quite a bit heavier and likely physically stronger than I am. So I really kinda doubt my experience and frame size will carry over to recommending something to a person 60 pounds heavier than I've ever been...I'm sure the extra weight and your extra strength makes skis handle very differently for you than they would with me.

BUT, again, I believe your research is telling you about the same as my best educated guess is telling me right now, if that helps a little.

I'm willing to loan you my barely used/5 year old 69" HO Charger so you can try it out. It has a nice adjustable front binding (size XL if memory serves...I know my brother's size 13 foot fit, and my size 11.5 also fits) and very comfy rear toe plate. Your extra size might allow you to turn it better than I ever could. It's not on your shopping list I know, but it might give you an idea of how that type of intermediate-width "freeride" HO ski will handle. It mostly it just collects dust and I'm certain it won't be used anymore this year. So if you want to spring for 2x shipping charges between IN and OK (that would be your only "rental fee") go ahead and PM me your contact info and I'd be happy to let you borrow it for the rest of this season. I have a FedEx account, and I'm pretty sure I can get it to your door for $20 or probably less, and then you ship it back to me whenever you're done with it...I'd just have to find or build a box for it, not difficult.

Let me know if that interests you.
 

haulnazz15

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Re: Slalom Ski Design

I can send you some more detailed pic of the Triumph if you like. Mine is of the 69" variety. I think the big daddy does help with the deep water starts, but it's definitely about the end of it's admirable attributes. To be honest, the Triumph I just got (2005 model) has a wider tip and is generally wider overall than the old wood Cypress Gardens ski I had been using. I think even though the triumph is 2" shorter than the Gardens, it should still be easy to get up on. I'm only 215-220, but it should be a good match for you.
 

BigBoatinOkie

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Re: Slalom Ski Design

Yeah Haulnazz, I'd like to see some detailed pics. Unfortunately, you can't see much detail on the pics I've seen on the web. Thanks dude.
 

BigBoatinOkie

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Re: Slalom Ski Design

Well dudes, call me crazy for buying another ski without trying it first, but I just ordered a 71" HO Triumph from Wiley's. The Big Daddy is on it's way back to Amazon, and the Triumph should be here before the weekend, so I'll try it out and see how she handles over the weekend. :D:D:D:cool:
 

skibrain

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Re: Slalom Ski Design

Congrats. Hopefully Oklahoma lake weather is warm and flat this weekend.
You can hold me personally responsible if it doesn't work out. :)
 

SeanT

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Re: Slalom Ski Design

I look forward to hearing about the new ski!
 

BigBoatinOkie

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Re: Slalom Ski Design

Skibrain, I think hot and windy is more likely. It's pretty much always windy, so wind direction is the biggest factor when deciding where to hang out on the lake. Not exactly the best conditions for slalom, but you learn to deal with it.

Shawn, I hope the report is a great one. I heard mostly very positive reviews on this ski, especially from the big riders, so I have high hopes. Can't wait to get out there and shred.(although you can't really call what I do shredding yet;))

Here's a pic. I got one of the blems. Hope it's not too blemished. I also got the HO Level front binding and rear toe plate instead of the Wiley's bindings. Those are basically what I have on my current HO ski and I like them, so I opted for them on the new ski as well.

pic4383-detail.jpg


HO_Level_Front_2009-2T.jpg
 

skibrain

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Re: Slalom Ski Design

Probably the blem has a big 'ol knot hole in the "wood" right up there in the tip. :)

I bought a factory blem ski from Wileys 10 yrs ago and could not find a thing....except $300 of savings over factory first.
 

SeanT

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Re: Slalom Ski Design

Probably the blem has a big 'ol knot hole in the "wood" right up there in the tip. :)
That's just there to spray you in the face and keep you cool while skiing!
 
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