sincere debate?

[mellowyellow]

if yur gonna walk the walk...<br />maybe it's just me, but I am v.curious about a few<br />platform topics... mainly; economy and education.<br />since 95% of news has NOTHING at all to do with<br />either, was hoping I could hear your views...<br />political affilliations are STRONGLY discouraged

 

[Parrott_head]

Re: sincere debate?

Mellowyellow,<br /><br />I would enjoy exchanging thoughts and philosophies about economics. Would greatly enjoy this if it can be done with rancor or personal attack. <br /><br />How about this, we both name three things that we think need to be done to improve the American economy for the long term. Then we try to distill this down to only three items that we agree on.<br /><br />Care to join me?<br /><br />Sincerely,<br />Parrott_head

 

[mattttt25]

Re: sincere debate?

education: we need more federal and state money going to schools (k-12). this money should be used for supplies, technological upgrades, and facilities. i'm one of the few that think teachers get paid enough. if we gave them better facilities, they wouldn't complain about the money so much. also believe in standardized testing. should be nationwide. make difficult, but fair testing required for each grade (at least 9-12). our children's future depends on it. also believe in the voucher system. if you want to send your kids to private schools, your taxex should go there. then you can pay the difference if there is one.<br /><br />economy: not too many views here. i work hard and get paid well. i save. when my investments don't earn 12% annually, i don't complain because it's not a right i or anyone else has.

 

[aspeck]

Re: sincere debate?

I'll bite -<br /><br />1) Eliminate all income tax. Face it, we can never agree on how much the government is going to take from you or I. So let's eliminate the income side of the equation.<br /><br />2) Begin a VAT (Value added Tax) or Federal sales tax. More one makes the more they tend to spend and the bigger their toys are. Those that like to spend pay more than those that save.<br /><br />3) Elimate Governmental deficit spending. Hey, if I can't afford it, I don't buy it. Why should my government be any different. Keep the budget balanced. If you want to spend more for something, then lower spending in another area. Make it a matter of priorities, not wants.<br /><br /><br />Education - <br /><br />1) Bring on the voucher system. Government pays so much for each student, wherever the student wants to go. If Parents want to homeschool, then they get paid up to the cost of curriculum. The good schools will get more money, yes. But then marginal schools will have to work harder to get up to speed. I think the long run will be better schools that will eduacate, not be social centers. Yes, there will be some parents that do not care where their kids go, but the majority will, and that will make all our schools better.<br /><br />2) Make kids and parents responsible for their actions. Don't let them blame it on how evil society is. Bring back discipline in schools - not psyco-babble.<br /><br />3) Eliminate tenure and keep part of teachers salaries based on length of service, but also reward ecelent teachers with merit pay for going above and beyond the job description.<br /><br />There are some ideas. What do you all think?

 

[Elmer Fudge]

Re: sincere debate?

How about doing away completely with what is known as the general fund, from both the state and federal governments.

 

[snapperbait]

Re: sincere debate?

Education.. <br /><br />More federal dollars for education, to help offset cost burdin on the states budgets... Negative on the vouchers... Public education.. If you don't like the education the government provides, pay your own way somewhere else.. <br />Bring back corporal punishment, in the classroom... <br />Make physical fitness class manditory.. (a high priority)<br />Neighborhood schools... None of this bussing a kid 10 miles to racialy balance a school, or whatever, when a school is just a few blocks away..<br />Teachers pay based on students test scores...<br /><br />Economy..<br /><br />Let the economy take care of itself..<br /><br />No deficit spending..<br />Flat tax.. Federal sales tax could be a good alternative as well..

 

[JB]

Re: sincere debate?

Hmmmm.<br /><br />Education is the domain of the states. The feds need to stay out of it altogether. Fed may provide education assistance to states, but not specify how it is used.<br /><br />Flat rate personal and corporate income tax. . . no dodges, no shelters. Quit punishing people and companies for succeeding.

 

[Parrott_head]

Re: sincere debate?

Ok,<br /><br />Flat rate taxes seem to be something on everyone's mind. <br /><br />Do you feel flat rate should apply to all income earned or should investments in the stock market, bonds, etc be excluded?<br /><br />I feel that all money earned, either through the sweat of your brow or the astute investment of your wealth should be taxed the same. And no looking for losers at the end of the year for write offs.

 

[Skinnywater]

Re: sincere debate?

That is very good aspeck.<br /><br />This http://www.libertyamendment.com/ would be an excellent place to start.<br />We can fine tune after 3 years.

 

[SpinnerBait_Nut]

Re: sincere debate?

Originally posted by Parrott_head:<br /> Ok,<br /><br />Flat rate taxes seem to be something on everyone's mind. <br /><br />Do you feel flat rate should apply to all income earned or should investments in the stock market, bonds, etc be excluded?

PH, all the investments are income earned.<br />They had to get the money to invest and that would come from income, so yea, all income earned, either by working or investing would work for me.

 

[achris]

Re: sincere debate?

Posted by Aspeck<br />

2) Make kids and parents responsible for their actions. Don't let them blame it on how evil society is. Bring back discipline in schools - not psyco-babble.

11 out of 10 for this one......

 

[Parrott_head]

Re: sincere debate?

Tough to fine tune an amendment to the Constitution. Thank you for sharing that website with me. I find myself intrigued by its premise.<br /><br />I am not against taxes per se. High tax rate, low tax rat, makes very little difference to me.<br />What I want is efficient use of the taxes collected. If we decide to collect very little as a people, than I expect little done by my federal government. If we decide to tax ourselves heavily, ok. But I expect services that justify that amount of taxation.<br /><br />As long as all are treated equitably.

 

[Skinnywater]

Re: sincere debate?

The fine tuneing would lie in the effects of the implementation.<br /><br />I'm not against taxes either, fair taxes. <br />The founders had a big problem with direct (income) taxes.

 

[mellowyellow]

Re: sincere debate?

a flat tax or a usage/consumtion tax makes good<br />sense to me, a flat rate on every item you consume<br />whether small or large, paid up front at time of <br />purchase with no exceptions. more than 90% of<br />corps. in US pay NO tax under current system and<br />this seems unfair to me.<br />as for education, I believe they should do away<br />with tenure which creates a sit. where even poor<br />teachers can't be fired. also, I think funding<br />should be tied to successful teaching of basic<br />fundamentals not to the number of bodies in a<br />desk x number of days. good schools doing a good<br />job teaching kids should get more funding. this<br />would motivate what we all want, kids getting a<br />decent education not graduating for simply showing<br />up. I have also considered the idea of getting rid<br />of grades all together and putting kids in certain<br />classes based on ability to grasp rather than what<br />grade they are in. 1 kid could be in advanced math<br />but be in remedial english if that was needed.

 

[aspeck]

Re: sincere debate?

MY, your education policies sound good on paper, but how do you implement it? If there are no grades or standards, what do you have to motivate kids to do their best and how are you going to know what they are doing? Without standards, how do you know if a kid is grasping enough to be in advanced math, or not grasping enough and should be in remedial english. Someone has to determine this, so there has to be some type of grading system.<br /><br />I know personally, I only did what I had to do, and since I wanted A's, I did a little more. If there was no incentive for doing more, I certainly wouldn't have been a A student.<br /><br />Skinny, that would be a good starting point. I personally have a tough time with taxes on my investments. I worked hard for that money and passed up a lot of "Could have had's" so I could put money aside for later. Then Government tells me that they want a piece of that also. Reward people who can save. Hate the inheritance taxes also - government penalizes you for dying! Didn't you pay tax on that money once already? Why do you have to pay again?

 

[mellowyellow]

Re: sincere debate?

aspeck, I meant remove grades as in K-12, not<br />grades for work done. put a kid in a class based<br />on his grasp not his age.<br />an example I went through: my eldest son could<br />read well when he was in Kindergarten, yet had to<br />go through remedial reading with all other kids<br />the same age even though he should have been in<br />2nd or even 3rd grade reading class.

 

[SoulWinner]

Re: sincere debate?

Things that can be now, things that are actually possible to attain:<br /><br />No Captial Gains Taxes- stop discourageing investment in America and this economy.<br /><br />Lower the top marginal rate to legally enforced eternal cap of 15%.<br /><br />No Death Tax- You are taxed on your income. You are taxed on what you spend. Then your estate is TAXED on what you leave behind?!?!? WTF?<br /><br />Make Congress acountable to same laws as the rest of us- In a Federation the power is supposed to rest upon electorate. Congress hashijacked this principle, and they must be executed.<br /><br />Cut School Funding- Funding for our schools per capita is at an all time high, and grades and nation performance is at an all time low, yet athletic programs are turning out the best athletes ever. I am not an athelete, nor is my son. Let athletic programs pay their own way, they onlty benefit a tiny percentage of the student body, and are made up of the dumbest bunch. Make all education money recieved by schools incumbant upon the scolastic perfoance of the students. If particular students don't want to learn, send them to work camps in shackles.<br /><br /><br />Now some stuff that would just be nice to do in order to from a perfect Union:<br /><br /><br />China- Remove Chinas most favored trade status, impose tarrifs on all Chinese products of like 10,000%, normalize relations with Cuba and let them produce cheap crap for us, along with countries like Rowanda, Sudan and the Ivory Coast (they would prolly stop killing each other if they busy working).<br /><br />Elect me President of the United States so that I can declare Marshal Law, confiscate all voting records and deport everyone who voted for Clinton in '96 to France.<br /><br />Rap Music- Identify "gangsta-rappers" who have violent and/or sexually explicite lyrics, and kill them publically. Thier bodies must be left in street for the carion fowl to feast upon.<br /><br /><br />Ok then....any other problems you need solved?

 

[mellowyellow]

Re: sincere debate?

SW said; "China-Remove China's most favored trade status."<br />disagree... keep your friends close, keep your<br />enemies closer brother!

 

[aspeck]

Re: sincere debate?

MY, thanks for clarifying. I can live with your "Remove all Grades" now. We went through the removing of grades (A, B, C,...) in our school district a few years ago - it was a joke!

 

[Parrott_head]

Re: sincere debate?

MY,<br /><br />I like the idea of kids progressing at their own speed.