Rust-Oleum Marine Paint Application

[Woodonglass]

Re: Rust-Oleum Marine Paint Application

I spent some time this evening conversing with Yacht Doctor on the subject of Mixing a urethane based hardener with an alkyd oil based paint. Before I painted my boat with Rustoleum and Valspar Hardener I did extensive research on the subject. I contacted Rustoleum, & Researched their site, I contacted Valspar, researched their site. Did extensive WEB research on the subject and it was my belief based on this research that this was a good and acceptable method for obtaining a durable inexpensive paint surface for my boat. I used it with success. I have since passed this acquired knowledge onto the people on this forum. Yacht Doctor's research with Rustoleum seems to indicate that they do NOT recommend adding this hardener to their product. Due to this fact I will no longer be making this recommendation. I will however state that Valspar DOES have an Alkyd Oil Based Paint and DOES have a Recommended hardener additive. By all that I can see their product is very similar to the Rustoleum product but I am NOT a Chemist and do not work for or represent either of these companies. I can only report what my research tells me. I used Rustoleum and the Valspar Hardener and the Acme Finish 1 Hardener. I have had good results. Have not observed any adverse affects from using the additive with the paint. Your results may be different than mine. In the future I will be using Valspars Oil based enamel and their hardener to ensure total comapatibility. Product is readily available at Tractor Supply, Inc. Stores. I apologize if anyone on iBoats feels that I have passed on improper or incorrect information.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Rust-Oleum Marine Paint Application

Here is the bottom line Direct from the Rusto tier person ..

The "Topside" for boats is an Alkyd based paint. ( Alkyd = Its OIL based one part paint ) .

Topside is only sold in Quarts .. as opposed to the Industrial paint is offered in Gallons ..( They sell/package more in there industrial line then they do in topside ) ..

The lime your talking about or even extra additives for the "Topside" is for Coverage from what I understand ( fewer coats ).

Rusto is owned by Pettit paints .. http://www.pettitpaint.com/ ..

Pettit supplies there own brand of topside paints .. ( they own Rusto but will not invest the $ for rusto to go full out Marine applications ) ..

Wonder about that ..

So .. in closing .. Rusto Direct says to not mix Any Water Based Additives to there product. If you want to Tint your color the best thing to do is buy a Qt of grey or black .. or whatever color and mix it without any problem. From what RO tells me is there is no Known additive or pigments that will be compatible with this product ( Topside or Ind. ). .. so you have to use it at your own descretion ..

I Always use the Same Product from primer to topcoat .. I suggest you do this as well ( Yes I can mix and match here and there with resins .. but Never ON Primers/Topcoats ). .. Im not bashing anyone here .. just the heads up on What I follow.

YD.

PS. I know some dont look at the bottom header .. this is only from a Professional point of view and I do not discount other methods used from others ..

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Rust-Oleum Marine Paint Application

So .. in closing .. Rusto Direct says to not mix Any Water Based Additives to there product.
Just to be clear, to the best of my knowledge, at no time did I or anyone else suggest mixing a water based product with the Rustoleum Alkyd Oil Based Paint. Both the Valspar Hardener and the Acrylic Enamel Artists paints that I suggested using for Tinting the paint are both Alkyd Oil based products. But again, I agree that it IS probably best to stay within the same Family i.e. MFG line of products to ensure total compatibilty and lessen the chance of paint failure or problems.

 

[JDA1975]

Re: Rust-Oleum Marine Paint Application

well, I will chime in on this come spring when I splash mine, will see if I'll be repainting or not, now I am getting nervous....oh well its only 100 bucks lost if I have to repaint so be it!

 

[ezmobee]

Re: Rust-Oleum Marine Paint Application

Sounds like the Tractor Supply Valspar products are the way to go for our "official" recommendation eh wood? Quick, go paint something with it so you have experience and results pictures.

YD, don't you have some beater sailboat laying around there you could paint for us as and example? Come on man!

 

[rrumba]

Re: Rust-Oleum Marine Paint Application

YD and WOG

Good information from you both and the research involved. I am getting ready to paint my SC so this comes just in time.

It is also refreshing to see 2 people agree/disagree and handle it in an open forum without ridicule, bashing or flaming as seen on MANY forums and thanks for that as well. Just another one of many reasons i love THIS FORUM.

 

[jmcaswell]

Re: Rust-Oleum Marine Paint Application

I am using the Rusto Marine Topside as well -Navy Blue- should I apply a Rusty Krystal Clear Coat after it just to protect it more? maybe retain the glossyness more?

Thoughts?

Thank You

Jim

Hello Iboaters everywhere

I have been seeing a lot of Rusto paint threads/posts as of late. So I decided to contact them ( again ) with up to date application and prep and Data on there product.

I am only speaking of there Marine Topside Paint .. nothing more ( no primers or etchings etc. ).

2 links that will get you started on the product ..

1: http://www.rustoleum.com/cbgimages/documents/206999_1103_MA_32oz_Topside_GlossWhite.pdf

This link will give you there PDF file of the application of the product ( The Information on the back side of the label ).

2: http://www.rustoleumibg.com/images/tds/CBG_TDS Marine Paint 1207.pdf

This link will give you a PDF file for there TDS ( Tech Data Sheet ) of how to apply right from there web site.

I Just got off the phone with there Tech Support with many questions .. here are the Q and A's ... ( I will put these In No Order ).

1. Prep .. suggested prep/sand/profile is 120-150 grit for the first application of the Rusto topcoat on Gelcoat. ( not raw glass )

2. Thinning or Reduction ... Mineral Spirits ONLY 5% for rolling and tipping. 10-15% reduction of Acetone or Xylene for spray applications ( depending on the temp ). Acetone for Low temp and Xylene for higher temps.

3. Window for re-coat.. 24 hours or Overnight depending on temp and proper application of the coat ( not too thick or it will not cure correctly ). You MUST sand/prep for the next coat !

4. Recoat .. Must be sanded between coats with 220 grit for proper application.

5. Topcoat/Final coat.. should follow the same 220 grit prep procedure.

6. Window for Final Top Coat to Trailer.. recommended at Least 3 Days for proper cure.

7. Clean/flush gun solvent.. Acetone or Xylene/acetone mix.

8. Sanding/Buffing.. Yes it can be sanded and buffed after a suggested cure time of At Least 2 weeks without fault.

9. Additives.. There are NO additives or curing agents offered or suggested by Rust-Oleum for this product ( This is going to be a touchy subject here ). The AE hardener suggest by some will promote quicker cure times .. but may dilute the product and the final cure of the paint itself.

In closeing .. R.O. tech line is 877-385-8155 .. ask them whatever you want ..

YD.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Rust-Oleum Marine Paint Application

I am using the Rusto Marine Topside as well -Navy Blue- should I apply a Rusty Krystal Clear Coat after it just to protect it more? maybe retain the glossyness more?

Thoughts?

Thank You

Jim

I would suggest you contact RO support @ R.O. tech line is 877-385-8155 ..

This thread is over 1 year and I suggest we lock this down because I cannot help on this product personally.

YD.

 

[Patfromny]

Re: Rust-Oleum Marine Paint Application

I believe the confusion between "Water based" and "Acrylic" is to blame WOD. Most premium water based paints are labeled 100% Acrylic and not "water based" because it sounds better. People have came to take acrylic to mean water based as alkyd means oil. Acrylic is an ingredient in most water based house paints that toughens the paint and makes it harder to scuff. The lessor paint lines use a mixture of acrylic and vinyl.

Acrylic enamel artist paints are mostly oil based I would guess but I would bet you could find a water based version. Acrylic only tells half the story and enamel just means shine. I am a Painter/ Finish carpenter by trade and am going to ask my local paint supply house if Rustoleum is tintable with their machines. With the exception of the newer low V.O.C. paint lines... house paint colorants are oil based. That is where most of the VOC content is in standard paint. I'll chime in tomorrow with an answer from the paint store if y'all are interested?

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Rust-Oleum Marine Paint Application

Thanks of the input Patfromny but I've already researched it. Rustoleum Professional Oil Based paint Is a 400 VOC,Modified Alkyd as is the MAJIC paint. It's my BAD for calling it Acrylic Enamel. I've Spray a bunch of it with different brands of the Hardener with NO adverse effects. You can tint it with just about any oil base tint but lately I've just used other paint colors of the same MFG to get the colors I want.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Rust-Oleum Marine Paint Application

The last time I talked to Tech support on RO product said that you should only color match with Solid colors that they sell of that same line of product.

Their products are "as is" for application performance.

You start adding stuff .. they say there 'could' be a performance reduction in the product.

As I suggested in the OP .. call them up and talk to them .. they are Very open with their products.

YD.

 

[jimmy wise]

Re: Rust-Oleum Marine Paint Application

yd happy holidays. ok i can comment on this. if you want acrylic enamel that is fast nason makes an industrial acrylic and they can make it at most dupont stores. valspar has a real nice urethane single stage that is alot better than acrylic enamel. i know people dont want to hear this but.....step up and get a professional grade product from a dealer in your area. yep its expensive, you will not buy it for 12 a quart. i use sherwin williams at my shop and have for 12 years. im not going to argue paint but most base coat i spray is over 80 a pint. but the have value line products that are far better than rustoleum. at least more durable. i dont see the savings if you are sanding between coats, the alkyd enamel is not fun to sand plus paper isnt cheap. how chemical resistant is it to fuel? i do know that clearcoat is not recommended below the water line. they say it will mildew if left in for a long time.
so that said im still up in the air...paint or gel coat. it seems about the same amount of sanding time. most likely i will gel coat white and paint colors on...jim

 

[Patfromny]

Re: Rust-Oleum Marine Paint Application

Hello all. I talked to my supplier and he said the same thing. You can tint rustoleum but it will degrade the paint. Mixing like paints of different colors is the way to go. he is a boat guy too and recommended a single stage epoxy made by General Coatings. He said it isn't too expensive and is far superior to Rustoleum. I was in a rush so I didn't get specifics but I will get pricing and part numbers next time i'm there (probably later today). Hope this helps.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Rust-Oleum Marine Paint Application

yd happy holidays. ok i can comment on this. if you want acrylic enamel that is fast nason makes an industrial acrylic and they can make it at most dupont stores. valspar has a real nice urethane single stage that is alot better than acrylic enamel. i know people dont want to hear this but.....step up and get a professional grade product from a dealer in your area. yep its expensive, you will not buy it for 12 a quart. i use sherwin williams at my shop and have for 12 years. im not going to argue paint but most base coat i spray is over 80 a pint. but the have value line products that are far better than rustoleum. at least more durable. i dont see the savings if you are sanding between coats, the alkyd enamel is not fun to sand plus paper isnt cheap. how chemical resistant is it to fuel? i do know that clearcoat is not recommended below the water line. they say it will mildew if left in for a long time.
so that said im still up in the air...paint or gel coat. it seems about the same amount of sanding time. most likely i will gel coat white and paint colors on...jim

Your right on with prep time .. If you buy a paint that is cheap ( less expensive ) but your prep is 2-3x times then your losing time and $. .. Period. Your cost in materials is going to cost you more in the long run.

I spray 40-50' yachts .. 3 passes all at once ( using Awlcraft 2000 or Imron ). I prep for weeks .. when the Spray starts is does not end until the Paint is applied Totally. There is no sanding between coats .. there is no Prep between coats .. its go .. go .. go..

Same thing when its a small boat ..

Prep and SPRAY .. all in one ..

Hello all. I talked to my supplier and he said the same thing. You can tint rustoleum but it will degrade the paint. Mixing like paints of different colors is the way to go. he is a boat guy too and recommended a single stage epoxy made by General Coatings. He said it isn't too expensive and is far superior to Rustoleum. I was in a rush so I didn't get specifics but I will get pricing and part numbers next time i'm there (probably later today). Hope this helps.

I dont know of Any Single stage paint that does the job of Imron or Awlgrip/Awlcraft ..

I do know that RO has its limits .. and should be considered when choosing a final 'top coat'. .. thats all I am suggesting here ..

Again .. I have no personal experience on the RO paint system .. so this thread might be closed down.

YD.

 

[Patfromny]

Re: Rust-Oleum Marine Paint Application

I dont know of Any Single stage paint that does the job of Imron or Awlgrip/Awlcraft ..

I do know that RO has its limits .. and should be considered when choosing a final 'top coat'. .. thats all I am suggesting here ..

Again .. I have no personal experience on the RO paint system .. so this thread might be closed down.

YD.

I agree with you YD. The better the product the better the job. Even with house painting I recommend spending the extra few dollars on a quality product. I also buy the best brushes and Roller covers etc. to apply these products because it does make a difference. But you have to compare apples to apples. Your 50' Yachts are in no way reflective of the many people asking about RO to paint their 12'-18' 30 year old weekend fishing boats. I thought this thread was interesting because I am planning on painting my 36 year old 16' boat and planned on doing so in my garage with my muscle car project and all my saws etc. inside. I don't have alot to spend and I don't think $80 a pint is feasable on a boat that will be worth a thousand dollars at most even after the new transom and floors. I also think that spending that much on a paint I will be using without a spray booth is throwing money away. I joined this forum to read this type of thread and pick up tips to help this "newbie to boating". I was just trying to give a possible economical alternative to the masses. Something I kind of thought was being asked for in the first place.
I am sorry that the thread is an old one and maybe you're exhausted by it by now. I was responding to the recent posts I read and didn't realize it was an oldy. I must claim newbie ignorance for that one sorry

 

[theburlybiker]

Re: Rust-Oleum Marine Paint Application

Thanks for the thread. I just bought a qt of Rusto topside gloss white to paint my 13 ft whaler. Just need to prep it, and still haven't decided if i'm going to spray or roll and tip.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Rust-Oleum Marine Paint Application

I agree with you YD. The better the product the better the job. Even with house painting I recommend spending the extra few dollars on a quality product. I also buy the best brushes and Roller covers etc. to apply these products because it does make a difference. But you have to compare apples to apples. Your 50' Yachts are in no way reflective of the many people asking about RO to paint their 12'-18' 30 year old weekend fishing boats. I thought this thread was interesting because I am planning on painting my 36 year old 16' boat and planned on doing so in my garage with my muscle car project and all my saws etc. inside. I don't have alot to spend and I don't think $80 a pint is feasable on a boat that will be worth a thousand dollars at most even after the new transom and floors. I also think that spending that much on a paint I will be using without a spray booth is throwing money away. I joined this forum to read this type of thread and pick up tips to help this "newbie to boating". I was just trying to give a possible economical alternative to the masses. Something I kind of thought was being asked for in the first place.
I am sorry that the thread is an old one and maybe you're exhausted by it by now. I was responding to the recent posts I read and didn't realize it was an oldy. I must claim newbie ignorance for that one sorry

Dont get me wrong here .. I think there are many boats in this forum that could take kindly to a RO paint job.

No reason to spend hundreds of dollars for a good enough paint job on some of these restorations.

YD.

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: Rust-Oleum Marine Paint Application

Your right on with prep time .. If you buy a paint that is cheap ( less expensive ) but your prep is 2-3x times then your losing time and $. .. Period. Your cost in materials is going to cost you more in the long run.

I spray 40-50' yachts .. 3 passes all at once ( using Awlcraft 2000 or Imron ). I prep for weeks .. when the Spray starts is does not end until the Paint is applied Totally. There is no sanding between coats .. there is no Prep between coats .. its go .. go .. go..

Same thing when its a small boat ..

Prep and SPRAY .. all in one ..



I dont know of Any Single stage paint that does the job of Imron or Awlgrip/Awlcraft ..

I do know that RO has its limits .. and should be considered when choosing a final 'top coat'. .. thats all I am suggesting here ..

Again .. I have no personal experience on the RO paint system .. so this thread might be closed down.

YD.

Very well said Dr. week's of prep...Interlux perfection rolled and rerolled. I am going to repaint the tub again and take some time to document the proecess... A hundered or so will be the cost.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Rust-Oleum Marine Paint Application

I should correct myself in suggesting ONLY Imron or Awlgrip products .. there are many 2 part paints that have High end finishes with a lower price tag. Well .. there are also some base coat clear coat paints that cost even more than the Awlgrip ..

YD.