riveted boat fact

[WeldZilla]

Look I did not joing I-boats to create conflict but when I see information that is completely wrong which could lead to potential problems for someone down the road I have to speak up.

Riveted boats are made with 5052 H34 Marine Grade Aluminum.

They are not made with 6000 series aluminum!! inthe case of the wrong info 6061. I repeat they are not.

Welding a riveted boat is only tough because the Aluminum used is so thin. But it can be done with tig or a spoolgun mig style using 100% argon shielding gas. For Aluminum .100 and thinner .023 wire works well. I used .030 on my 68 starcraft
Chieften. It takes a competent welder to do this. Any welder that would use JB weld to repair his boat should throw his hood in the garbage... Hey just my opinion. Anyone with the strong desire can learn to do this. Go to your local community college and take night classes. Then practice. Get a 220V. machine and spoolgun.

Now as to prove this to you guys as to the grade of aluminum used in riveted boats.

Also you do not need to preheat your aluminum!! it is thin it will get all the heat it needs.
5052 will retain more than enough strength after it welded just clean it up with a wire wheel
or flap disc becareful with flap disc you will remove metal you want. and then simply weld it.

Welding aluminum does not require any voodoo magic and the force need not be with you
but it couldn't hurt lol

Blow these pictures up and you will see exactly what aluminum grade is used in riveted boats

 

[soggy_feet]

Re: riveted boat fact

I believe the preheat would be to avoid warping, not for weld penetration..

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: riveted boat fact

Well, Nice research!! Now what kind of aluminum was used in a 1958 Lonestar, or a 1964 Gruman, or a 1975 Lund, or a 1982 Starcraft. Here on iBoats we deal with boats of all vintages. The ads you displayed are talking about the NEW boats being made today. Very few of them appear here on the forum for repair. Your post yesterday made reference to your welding your 84 Starcraft. Do you know for sure what kind of aluminum Starcraft was using in 1984? There have been a LOT of advances made in Metallurgy in the past 27 years and that's why the boat mfg's are using what they are using today. They didn't have it back then. Some of the older aluminum does not take to welding as readily as some of the new stuff. So before you start jumping on some of our respected members you should try to consider the fact that we deal with boats that range from the 50's to current date.

By the way, you should check out some of sschefer's work(the guy you're calling out). He's got a lot of knowledge with aluminum. He was building an aluminum boat...From SCRATCH!!!!!

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=414556

 

[jigngrub]

Re: riveted boat fact

Not everyone has the desire or ability to become a welder.

Riveted boats are riveted for a few reasons. Yes the metal is thinner and they're relatively easy to work on. Rivets and the tools to install them aren't very expensive either.

I'm not a fan of using goo to fix a leaking riveted boat, it rarely works well or lasts. I can see using a product like JB weld for a very small hole/gash/tear, but it's uses are very limited.

If I ever need my riveted aluminum boat welded, I'll take it to a professional welder because they do it all the time and they're good at it. It'll also cost a lot less money than a welding machine, and be a lot quicker than taking night classes leaning how to weld.

 

[Bondo]

Re: riveted boat fact

Riveted boats are made with 5052 H34 Marine Grade Aluminum.

Ayuh,.... Welcome Aboard,....

As explained by Bob,... Blanket statements like that will only get You into trouble...
As an example,...
I was asked to stitch up an old barge, a 14' tinny, riveted construction...
Well,... I've got a welder, actually, several of 'em,....
'n I've welded aluminum for years,.... many different grades....

You can imagine My surprise when the darn thing caught Fire...
Yep,... this ole Sears tinny had magnesium as an alloy...
It was a Purtty Sparkler til it was finally put out...
Scared the 'ell outa me...
Needless to say, she went to the scrap yard, as it was too beat to fix otherwise...

Ayuh,... Two things ya never wanta do in the forums,...
Never issue a blanket statement that can come back, 'n Bite ya,...
And,....
Never, NEVER Assume,.... Anything....

 

[jigngrub]

Re: riveted boat fact

You can imagine My surprise when the darn thing caught Fire...
Yep,... this ole Sears tinny had magnesium as an alloy...
It was a Purtty Sparkler til it was finally put out...
Scared the 'ell outa me...
Needless to say, she went to the scrap yard, as it was too beat to fix otherwise...

I'd pay movie admission to see that video!!!

 

[1959Cherokee]

Re: riveted boat fact

^^^ +1

 

[MichaelP]

Re: riveted boat fact

^^^ +2

I heard that Russian subs used to have hulls made of titanium. Welding that must have been quite a process. Bond-o, ever try that stuff?

Hope I'm not talking out of school here..

5052 grade bends without cracking so its a good alloy for boats with rounded surfaces. Heat treated aluminum alloys like 6061-T6 can have the same yield strength as mild steel (36 KSI) untill welded then the heat anneals out the temper in the weld zone. I'd never use a tempered aluminum alloy on anything that flexes.

 

[LonLB]

Re: riveted boat fact

There have been a LOT of advances made in Metallurgy in the past 27 years and that's why the boat mfg's are using what they are using today. [/URL]

What advancements to aluminum have been made in the last 27 years?


Because from where I'm sitting, other than exotic metals, and 'maybe' some stainless alloys, metals and their different graded alloys have been around for a LONG time. Surely longer than 27 years, I'd venture to say by at least a couple decades.

 

[WeldZilla]

Re: riveted boat fact

Well gentlemen Aluminum has been around a long time. the first recorded use of it for boat building was in 1890 a sailboat. In 1892 was the first aluminum powerboat (2hp) The first aluminum boats were built in North America in 1894. they built a bunch of 18 footers for a polar expedition they weighed only 375 lbs compared to 1700 lbs. for a screwed together 18ft. wood boat. All these boats were plagued by the same problem corrosion attacked them quickly. By late 1895 they found that using aluminum and other metals together to build boats was really a disaster. Copper, bronze, and brass when fasten to aluminum starts the galvanic corrosion fast and kicks it into over drive. So even though they needed to build pure aluminum boats corrosion was a major problem, (Remember aluminum and dissimilar metals when put together are prone to serious corrosion. To speed up the corrosion just add water. To really send it over the edge add salt water!) Now move forward to 1931 metalergist figured out how to alloy aluminum with magnesium and series 5000 salt water corrosion resistant aluminum was born. By the end of 1932 virtually all boat builders were using this new super aluminum for there hulls.
About the same time they alloyed aluminum with magnesium and silicon and 6000 series aluminum was born it was tougher than the 5000 series. It was tougher and harder to bend but it could be heated and bent into complex shapes. Sweeping curves can be done without heating it. Remember 5000 series aluminums are NON heat-treatable.
So if 6000 series is tougher and is weldable and can be bent why is it no major small boat manufacturer uses it for their hulls.
In order to make the magnesium and silicon work it has to ba alloyed with .25% copper. this acts to give it its strength but it puts a corrosion causing metal in the mix!! Now it can be used and it does not corrode as rapidly as the old days but it does corrode faster than 5000 series aluminum which uses only .10% copper in the mix . 6000 series aluminum is used in boats for the decks and superstructure as well as the interior framing but not the hull.
Now a days some super aluminum yahts are even using 7000 series aluminum which until recently was just not even considered as it corrodes like the early stuff. however with advancement in bottom paints and a ton of zincs they are getting away with it.

So your 1958 Lonestar, or a 1964 Gruman, or a 1975 Lund were in fact built with both but the hulls on all 3 were made with 5000 series aluminum.

The history of aluminum and its uses from it origin has always fascinated me as does the small addition of carbon to iron to give us steel.

But, that is for another thread another time

WeldZilla

 

[MichaelP]

Re: riveted boat fact

^^^^Wow...That is the kind of informative and educated post that makes me grateful to have found this place.

Thanks WeldZilla!