Restore 1988 Bayliner Capri SKI

73Chrysler105

Chief Petty Officer
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407
Re: Restore 1988 Bayliner Capri SKI

That entire article from West is talking about using Epoxy so is that what you are using to do the repairs?

I will agree and be the first person to tell you I don't know everything, but I have done a lot of reading over the last two years and I research things ton before I get started on them. Sometimes its paralysis from analysis. I come from a big family of Engineers and myself went to college for engineering. If any of the big names here contradict me then feel free to disregard anything I say.

In the article the repair techniques they show, although it is highly unlikely, I can see a circumstance at a point of flex that the repair could actually be forced out since the repair is wedge shaped and the only bonding to the old stringer is the edge which is just the thickness of the wood stringer just a bit longer than the height. I would go to Oops thread and read how he produced longer stringers than the plywood available. I will have to do this same thing with my boat as my stringers are longer than 8 feet. If I was going to do a partial replacement of a stringer this is how I would do it since the bind between the new and old stringer is not in the same direction of the normal holding force of the entire stringer.

Also if you are not using Epoxy the repairs would need to be done slightly differently than the West Systems article because the bond is not as strong with the poly as with the epoxy.

Below is a simple paint drawing of the West Systems Repair compared to how Oops lengthened his stringers. The parts in gray would be assumed to be the good stringer sections for the repair.
stringer repair examples.jpg

Regarding the paint I don't know whether the Stripper would harm the gel coat. I cant imagine it would since its much harder than paint to remove. If I were doing it I would try sanding only first since its flaking off already, the 600 grit will dull the gel coat slightly but then a wet sand with 1000 or 1500 and polish with a buffer and it will shine like new. I might possibly be flaking too because of improper prep work when the paint was applied so it might come off even easier than all that. Again my two cents which isn't worth much.
 

eavdic10

Seaman
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Jan 25, 2012
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Re: Restore 1988 Bayliner Capri SKI

Tank you, I will take more pictures after I grind everything and clean it up a bit because now it is really hard to take pictures with all the dust on the boat. This is just an idea but would this be a good solution....Stingers are glassed in right now...what if I cut them just on top, take the wood out but leave the fiberglass casing they are in now and glue the stringers in with that existing fiberglass and then just glass over that again. Would that give a better hold, or be even a good Idea, in that case I could just replace the hole thing ....I can get 17ft long boards in one piece, and have a good piece of mind that the hole thing is done correctley and don't have to worry about the rott for a while again.
 

73Chrysler105

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Re: Restore 1988 Bayliner Capri SKI

As long as the fiberglass is in good shape with no delamination and you clean the inside to as to scuff and remove any wood rot fungus that might get left in there I don't see why you couldn't. Now in that statement are two key things one scuf the interior because you will need to bind this with poly or epoxy tot he wood which should also have a layer of csm along the entire length. And two remove all traces visible and invisible of the rot which might take a fungicide to properly clean. It will still be a lot of prep but may save a little on glass. You will also need to reglass over the top as a cap once your done to seal it in.

Chris
 

eavdic10

Seaman
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Re: Restore 1988 Bayliner Capri SKI

Yes the fiberglass looks good and really thick, I can clean the inside with bleach and then sand down with 100 grid sand paper I think that should take care of the fungus and whould be good to bond. Can you explain little more in detail please when you say "layer of csm along the entire length". Then I can just glass in the top that should be staight forward. Now what type of wood do you suggest using, plywood or can I use treated lumber etc.? again thank you very very much
 

73Chrysler105

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Re: Restore 1988 Bayliner Capri SKI

I would put the same type of wood that came out of there. The wood should be bonded to the existing fiberglass in order to do that your going to have to encase each wood stringer in a layer of wetted out csm prior to installing it so that it will bond to the existing stringer walls that you scuffed up. You will have to install it wet so that the fiberglass resin and csm will properly bond otherwise you will end up with the stringer not properly bonded to the hull and it wont be able to take the load and stress from the hull properly. Hope that makes sense. The only thing you will be saving is a few layers of fiberglass cloth and mat and maybe 5 gallons of resin doing it this way. It may even turn out to be a lot more work to do it this way. Sometimes you have to think whats your time worth.
 

Woodonglass

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Re: Restore 1988 Bayliner Capri SKI

Not a good idea, you will not be able to get proper bonding. If you read and study the multiple threads on the forum you will see that it is never recommended to do this. The accepted and recommended method is to remove the stringers grind all the old glass out build new stringers out of either Marine Plywood or Ext. Grade plywood and glass it back in with either poly or Epoxy resin. You can use wood like Douglass Fir or Southern Yellow Pine but even they are not as good as laminated plywood with 100% waterproof glue. Poly requires CSM Mat and either Woven Roving or Biaxial Cloth. Epoxy reqires only Woven Roving or Biax. It's your boat, you can do what you want, but if you want to follow acctepted practices this is how its. done. There's a link in my signature that shows you exactly how and what to use to accomplish all of this. There are Hundreds of threads on the forum that have pics and text on everything I have just explained. Search for Stringer restoration, Stringer replacement, etc. and you will find all you need. Pics of your project always help everyone see what you see and thus make it easier to help with solutions.
 

eavdic10

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Re: Restore 1988 Bayliner Capri SKI

Planning on using the first one in the drawing but once I get closer to finishing grinding I will think about it as I get along :)
 

eavdic10

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Re: Restore 1988 Bayliner Capri SKI

What do you guys think I should use for the ski compartment again. Should I gelcoat it, I am planning on painting the gas tank compartment as well. I read some are using gel coat , some are using bedliners, some are using non slip paint, some even suggest rustoleum paint (not sure if they are thinking of the oilbased one) I am looking for something that I can apply over the existing gel coat after I sand it down and I am planning on doing the whole floor from front to back in the ski compartment area, just so the dirt does not sit around to give it smooth finish so the water and dirt can travel easy out of the boat.
 

eavdic10

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Re: Restore 1988 Bayliner Capri SKI

UPDATE: Ok guys after I gave a good thought I just decided to take the stringers out and replace them both, instead of doing it partially. I have taken the old stringers out, eventhough they were not rotten they were wet. So I am glad I did it. I will grind it all down and just follow Frisoboaters thread and videos on how he did it. The visual just helps a lot. I watched most of his videos and they are very helpful. Let me know what you think. Still got some grinding left IMAG0430.jpgIMAG0431.jpgIMAG0435.jpgIMAG0438.jpgIMAG0439.jpg
 

Woodonglass

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Re: Restore 1988 Bayliner Capri SKI

I think you made the right decision in removing everything and going back with all new wood. If you follow Frisco's vids and rebuild you cannot go wrong.
 

eavdic10

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Re: Restore 1988 Bayliner Capri SKI

Quick question, the wood that was used for stingers originally was 1x6 pine...I know most use plywood but would it be ok to use 1x6 treated I could get them already in the height and lenght I would just need to round off corners. I guess I am concerned that it will soak in the resin and be able to cure with PL. Also woodonglass you mentioned in one of the treads to Frisco that the foam under the stringers is not necessary, but he did use it in the videos...what do you suggest?
 

Woodonglass

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Re: Restore 1988 Bayliner Capri SKI

You can use treated wood but...It MUST be dry. This can take several weeks in your garage with fans and heat. I have since changed my opinion on using the Pink or Blue foam under the stringers and am now totally in favor of using it. It is 100% impervious to absorbing water so it is good to use. I'm also leaning more towards using PB instead of PL to bed the stringers in because it cures faster and allow you to get your stringers installed quicker. PL can take up to 3-4 days to cure and you cannot tab your stringers to the hull until it has cured. PB cures in a couple of hours so you can theoretically set your stringers in the morning and have em tabbed in by that evening. I am still in favor of using Plywood for the stringers and not solid lumber
 

eavdic10

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Re: Restore 1988 Bayliner Capri SKI

I really appreciate it...I will do as you say. Especially since it is about 40 degrees here in Michigan and I am planning on using heaters in the garage when stetting those in...I want to make sure they cure fast...I am not in a hurry I still have until end of May for Michigan summer but I want to have it done in case I come across complications and still have time to get it done by then. I will switch over to plywood, I will also use Frisco's recipe for the PB.
 

chriscraft254

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Re: Restore 1988 Bayliner Capri SKI

Start by incapsulating the plywood in resin first. it will save you headaches down the road.
 

oops!

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Re: Restore 1988 Bayliner Capri SKI

wow.....

dont know where to start.

first off good job on gutting the boat.....

im not really a fan of the boat sitting on the roller trailer.......bayliners have really weak hulls....you know as you walk on the hull....you feel it give under your weight....

the rollers could point load and deform the hull.....when you re install the stringers, it will cause the hull to be warped.
i would highly suggest that you make bunks out of 2x6 or 2x8 s and support the hull with those....make sure that the boards on the flat are not on a speed strake but between the strakes.

second.....in responce to slipping new stringers in the old glass channels.....not a good idea.
you will never get a good bond from the wood to the stringer. so the stringer will actually float in the old glass channel.
cut out the glass to the hull, and when you wrap the new stringer in csm and the 1708 you will be plenty strong enough.

oh....by the way.....as you were advised above.....the glass you have in not the right stuff for this job.
that 6 oz woven is nothing more than a thin glass cloth that is used over csm to make it smooth for fairing. it has NO structural value.

i have not read the west systems manual......but from what you are saying about the approach....it sounds as either you mis under stood, or the manual is for application using epoxy.....poly applications and epoxy are totally different.

as far as resin coating the wood.....the proper application of this (as recomended by cook composites product testing division)
is to coat the wood with catylized resin.....do not wait till full cure, wait till its tacky,,,nearing cure, and then glassing as per normal.
the reason for this is so that the first coat of wet resin permeates the wood, then when the csm is applied to the near cured resin, a chemical bond is formed between the reisn that is actually in the wood and the new resin and glass that is applied.
if you wait for a full cure before adding a layer of glass, you have a really weak resin rich barrier between the wood (substraight) and the glass....this bond is very weak and usually can be pulled apart by hand.
 

oops!

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Re: Restore 1988 Bayliner Capri SKI

that is the most expencive 1708 i have seen yet....6 bux a yard is standard.

5 gals of unwaxed resin is 110 bux.
 

Woodonglass

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Re: Restore 1988 Bayliner Capri SKI

Depending on shipping costs www.uscomposites.com is a lot less expensive. I see no reference to 1.5 oz.CSM, Cabosil, Chopped Strand Mat (CSM) glass roller. Do you have all of these. You will need them.
 

rrumba

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Re: Restore 1988 Bayliner Capri SKI

eavdic10....

oops and WOG have you covered for what you need to do. take her down and build her up

that is expensive for resin. http://www.fiberglassservices.com/ try these guys, 5 gals cost 125.00 shipped and thatinclude the hazmat fee. the cloth will vary just about everywhere you could try these guys as well for the cloth http://www.raka.com/specials.html the warehouse deals are usually really good. they had some 1708 before but it's gone now. They do have the 1700 biax for 4.00 a/yd min order of 20yds about 80.00.

I could be wrong here and maybe one of the more knowledgeable peeps can answer, but if we are laying down 1.5oz CSm then 1708 which has 8oz CSM, then why not just use 1.5oz CSM then 1700 biax and keep alternating?

OOPS!, Arch, Yact........... anyone have any thoughts on this?
 

Woodonglass

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Re: Restore 1988 Bayliner Capri SKI

You could do that ^^^^ but the CSM stitched to the Back of the 17oz cloth in the case of 1708 makes it a much stronger laminate. But for cost savings you could just use the 17oz biax and the CSM by themselves as you have stated if you can get a good deal on them.
 
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