replace 4.3 in kind or upgrade to vortec with ramifications/problems?

[theboatfloats!]

I have a 1993 Bayliner Cuddy Capri 2052 with 4.3 Liter LX, 4 barrels carb.

The current engine is a 756 casting. Non-balanced shaft, external electric fuel pump.

Long story short, I never replaced the manifolds and risers since 1993, water got in the cylinders, they got pitted after a year of the boat sitting on the trailer, but after doing a compression test, all cylinders all good compression except one at 30 psi.

Boat has always been trailered. Hull is in great condition, paint is not faded. Had it reupholstered a couple years ago.
Before doing compression test, I bought new Sierra manifolds and risers, never installed. Brought cylinder heads to a machine shop, who found too much corrosion around the valves. So they sold me remanufactured heads in better shape for $370

I just got the 4 barrels Weber carb rebuilt as ethanol messed it up. After cleaning the intake manifold, found out it was rotten/cracked, and the starter needs to be replaced.

It's very hard to get a short block (block without cylinder heads), machinists want a fortune to rebuild my block: $1600 to $3500, but that does not make sense, as my block is salted up from nearly 20 years of use.

I could get a non-balanced shaft long block for about $1600, and sell my good never fired heads.

or I could buy a remanufactured vortec long block for similar money. I can get a used truck vortec engine for about $500

But with a new vortec engine design:
1. Would my new manifolds and risers fit?
2. Would my present alternator and power steering pump fit with their current brackets and 2 V-Belts fit?
3. If #2 above does not work, would my current electric harness fit?
4. Would my current distributor fit?
5. Would my current 4 barrels Weber carb fit? Even if the used engine has injectors?
6. What about my current flywheel, etc, etc.?

Just wondering if I should go up to a vortec or stay with my non-vortec design.

Either way, I need a new intake manifold for a 4-barrels carb. Is aluminum ok? Heck the outdrive is aluminum. What and where do you recommend I get one.

Thanks for the input.

 

[Bondo]

Re: replace 4.3 in kind or upgrade to vortec with ramifications/problems?

I have a 1993 Bayliner Cuddy Capri 2052 with 4.3 Liter LX, 4 barrels carb.

The current engine is a 756 casting. Non-balanced shaft, external electric fuel pump.

Long story short, I never replaced the manifolds and risers since 1993, water got in the cylinders, they got pitted after a year of the boat sitting on the trailer, but after doing a compression test, all cylinders all good compression except one at 30 psi.

Boat has always been trailered. Hull is in great condition, paint is not faded. Had it reupholstered a couple years ago.
Before doing compression test, I bought new Sierra manifolds and risers, never installed. Brought cylinder heads to a machine shop, who found too much corrosion around the valves. So they sold me remanufactured heads in better shape for $370

I just got the 4 barrels Weber carb rebuilt as ethanol messed it up. After cleaning the intake manifold, found out it was rotten/cracked, and the starter needs to be replaced.

It's very hard to get a short block (block without cylinder heads), machinists want a fortune to rebuild my block: $1600 to $3500, but that does not make sense, as my block is salted up from nearly 20 years of use.

I could get a non-balanced shaft long block for about $1600, and sell my good never fired heads.

or I could buy a remanufactured vortec long block for similar money. I can get a used truck vortec engine for about $500

But with a new vortec engine design:
1. Would my new manifolds and risers fit?
2. Would my present alternator and power steering pump fit with their current brackets and 2 V-Belts fit?
3. If #2 above does not work, would my current electric harness fit?
4. Would my current distributor fit?
5. Would my current 4 barrels Weber carb fit? Even if the used engine has injectors?
6. What about my current flywheel, etc, etc.?

Just wondering if I should go up to a vortec or stay with my non-vortec design.

Either way, I need a new intake manifold for a 4-barrels carb. Is aluminum ok? Heck the outdrive is aluminum. What and where do you recommend I get one.

Thanks for the input.

Ayuh,... Welcome Aboard,... If ya buy a Vortec motor, long block or used, everything fits, but the Intake manifold,...

If ya don't boat in Saltwater, an aluminum intake can work,.... for awhile....

 

[theboatfloats!]

Re: replace 4.3 in kind or upgrade to vortec with ramifications/problems?

thank you Bon-O !

My present 12 bolt intake manifold is rotten from saltwater use and has a crack under the thermostat housing. So I need a replacement, but I'm finding out that they are hard to find and expensive at $300.

So I am thinking of upgrading to a newer Vortec design.

Questions if I upgrade to a newer Vortec design:

1. I presently have a 4 barrell Weber, non-electric choke; "heat actuated choke" call it at Eagle Engine Sale. It has a lever and a little box with a spring inside of it which bolt to the manifold. Eagle Engine tells me that:
A. My carb will not fit the newer intake manifold, because of a different bolt pattern. Is that true?
B. My non-electric Weber carb lever will not fit the newer intake manifold. Is that true?
If true to either/both A and B above, what parts do I need to make my carb work? I hate the $ on a different carb.

2. Will my old distributor work on a newer engine

3. Will my pre-1993 starter install on a newer engine?

4. Will my thermostat housing fit on a newer engine?

5. Are the mounting bracket pattern the same?

6. Any other issues that I should be awared of?

 

[theboatfloats!]

Re: replace 4.3 in kind or upgrade to vortec with ramifications/problems?

anyone?

 

[Bondo]

Re: replace 4.3 in kind or upgrade to vortec with ramifications/problems?

thank you Bon-O !

My present 12 bolt intake manifold is rotten from saltwater use and has a crack under the thermostat housing. So I need a replacement, but I'm finding out that they are hard to find and expensive at $300.

So I am thinking of upgrading to a newer Vortec design.

Questions if I upgrade to a newer Vortec design:

1. I presently have a 4 barrell Weber, non-electric choke; "heat actuated choke" call it at Eagle Engine Sale. It has a lever and a little box with a spring inside of it which bolt to the manifold. Eagle Engine tells me that:
A. My carb will not fit the newer intake manifold, because of a different bolt pattern. Is that true?
B. My non-electric Weber carb lever will not fit the newer intake manifold. Is that true?
If true to either/both A and B above, what parts do I need to make my carb work? I hate the $ on a different carb.

2. Will my old distributor work on a newer engine

3. Will my pre-1993 starter install on a newer engine?

4. Will my thermostat housing fit on a newer engine?

5. Are the mounting bracket pattern the same?

6. Any other issues that I should be awared of?

Ayuh,.... #1,... Same bolt pattern,... switch to an electric choke,... look to Edlebrock for parts,...
Their performer series is a carbon copy of yer carb,..

#2, Yes, no problem, Chevy distributors haven't changed,..

#3, Ya better hope so, it's gotta match the flywheel diameter,...

#4, Yes,...

#5, Ya the same,...

 

[theboatfloats!]

Re: replace 4.3 in kind or upgrade to vortec with ramifications/problems?

Thank you Bond-o !

I found a used 1997 4.3L Chevy engine still in a truck. Runs great. Price is $600 with fuel injection system, distributor, computer, and tranny. Seller is selling it as a package. So I can sell the tranny, fuel injection system, computer, or....

1. Can I used the automotive fuel injection system and computer in my boat? What are the differences between a automotive fuel injection system and a marine one? Or are they the same?

2. Change the head gaskets to marine or are they really the same ?

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: replace 4.3 in kind or upgrade to vortec with ramifications/problems?

Lose the fuel injection and go marine carb, way to much expense and time involved to due automotive fuel injection from auto to marine two differnt worlds.

 

[matt167]

Re: replace 4.3 in kind or upgrade to vortec with ramifications/problems?

The injection systems are sometimes very similar in how they work, but always very different with Marine Vs Auto.. Marine always some form of vapor recovery or explosion proofing ( this would be like the "J" vent on a marine carb ), most do not use O2 sensors as the manifolds are wet and Marine is always a standalone system.. With that said, the CSFI system that truck has is basically garbage can material. It won't work for you. The guys who have those trucks and need replacements most often get the upgrade and go with marine port injection manifolds. It's not even really worth trying to sell it, tho you might turn $100 for it to the right person if you spend the time to list it and keep the listing up.

I would change the head gaskets. Auto's use coolant, but most boats use raw water to cool which is not as predictable and could effect the head gaskets.. You could get a closed cooling kit and run coolant in your engine, never really worry about an aluminum intake or what salt would do to your engine if you ever took it into salt water.. you will have a large cost for the closed cooling kit, but won't spend as much for the marine Vortec 4bbl intake ( cast iron ). The aluminum versions from Edelbrock or other aftermarkets would be quite a bit cheaper

 

[theboatfloats!]

Re: replace 4.3 in kind or upgrade to vortec with ramifications/problems?

thank you all for your input!

 

[theboatfloats!]

Re: replace 4.3 in kind or upgrade to vortec with ramifications/problems?

just received a 2011 4.3L V6 Vortec truck engine with 10k miles that I bought on ebay for $800 with delivery. It looks new. Engine has casting #12600234. I was hoping to receive a 090 casting. Casting # was not available at time of purchase.
I have not taken out of the boat my 1992 4.3 non-Vortec V6 yet. Before I bought this #234, while scouring the internet for new and rebuild marine engine, I never saw this #234 casting number.

Now I'm wondering if my old bellhousing will fit and so is my old flywheel. wondering if there will be other problems.

 

[Volphin]

Re: replace 4.3 in kind or upgrade to vortec with ramifications/problems?

They will fit just fine. Also, when you purchase an Edelbrock 2114, have it endurashine coated and run an anode in place of one of the capped ports. That should keep corrosion at bay.

 

[matt167]

Re: replace 4.3 in kind or upgrade to vortec with ramifications/problems?

The SBC bellhousing never changed so your good there, you can probably find a flywheel or coupler to fit, however GM changed the 4.3 up in 2010 with a brand new 4.3 with a lot of old 4.3 design which included the new #234 casting. The front of the motor is different so your accessories may not fit, the starter mounts differently so you may or may not find something that will work, oil pan/ flange was changed so you can't reuse your oil pan.. Now, Marine 4.3L's are still manufactured so the parts may be available if the marine engines use the #234 block.. GM is supposed to make conversion parts to make the new engines work in pre '10 trucks, but most of that probably won't work in a marine application.

 

[theboatfloats!]

Re: replace 4.3 in kind or upgrade to vortec with ramifications/problems?

f
Thanks for the help.

so here is a pix of the 2011 4.3L V6 from a truck.

Questions:
1. What Mercruiser serial numbers should I be using when looking for parts?
I found out that my 1992 circulating pump in the front of the engine will not fit this 2011. I have not tried to move my old starter yet, as I need a new one anyway.

2. Can I reuse the truck serpentine belt pulleys as shown in the pix and what other part would I need to reuse my old alternator and power steering pump? I was hoping and planning to reuse my old V-belt design, but there may be a problem as mentioned by matt167 above. My plan is to keep it simple and as inexpensive as possible. My preference would be the V-belt options. If so, what bracket part(s) number(s) would I need to order for both options?

and btw I received a new 8 bolt cast iron manifold 4 barrel to reuse my Weber carb. Thanks Volphin for the input.

Thanks.

 

[Bondo]

Re: replace 4.3 in kind or upgrade to vortec with ramifications/problems?

View attachment 214073f
Thanks for the help.

so here is a pix of the 2011 4.3L V6 from a truck.

Questions:
1. What Mercruiser serial numbers should I be using when looking for parts?
I found out that my 1992 circulating pump in the front of the engine will not fit this 2011. I have not tried to move my old starter yet, as I need a new one anyway.

2. Can I reuse the truck serpentine belt pulleys as shown in the pix and what other part would I need to reuse my old alternator and power steering pump? I was hoping and planning to reuse my old V-belt design, but there may be a problem as mentioned by matt167 above. My plan is to keep it simple and as inexpensive as possible. My preference would be the V-belt options. If so, what bracket part(s) number(s) would I need to order for both options?

and btw I received a new 8 bolt cast iron manifold 4 barrel to reuse my Weber carb. Thanks Volphin for the input.

Thanks.

Ayuh,.... If ya want Simple, 'n Inexpensive, Sell that motor, 'n buy 1 that Fits,....

Changin' generations/ vintages of 4.3ls is never easy, nor inexpensive,...

 

[theboatfloats!]

Re: replace 4.3 in kind or upgrade to vortec with ramifications/problems?

I don't know what to say to your above response Bondo, as you stated earlier on 6/3/13 that "If ya buy a Vortec motor, long block or used, everything fits" but now that I am finding out that some items do not fit you're giving me different advise by stating "Changin' generations/ vintages of 4.3ls is never easy, nor inexpensive" and that I should sell it........

I just found out that this #234 casting number is used as a Mercruiser, see number in heading:
http://engineguy.com/general-motors...uiser-volvo-marine-marine-engine-atkdmx1.html

In any case, now that I have on hand a 2011 4.3L V6 Vortec truck engine with casting #12600234, I'm humbly asking of anyone, including Bondo:

1. What Mercruiser serial numbers should I be using when looking for parts

2. Does anyone know of part# / kit # to reuse my 1992 power steering pump and 1992 alternator as a V Belt on my new 2011 motor? Same questions to convert to convert to Serpentine Belt.

Thank you.

 

[matt167]

Re: replace 4.3 in kind or upgrade to vortec with ramifications/problems?

Bondo meant going from the 1992 to a 1996-2009 Vortec 4.3 which is basically just a roller cam block and good cylinder heads, everything else is the same between those.. Year or so older and you have a non balance shaft 4.3L which is an incompatibility..

That said, given that it is used in a Marine engine, the parts to make it work are available. Your outdrive is a Gen II so it should work fine because the parts to make it work exist.. Your best bet is to buy the front engine accessory drive for the marine engine from Mercruiser or see if any of the parts compare to GM parts. If GM parts will work for that, just visit a recycler and you can get the auto versions. You should be able to swap the V belt pullies on the pumps and alt to serpentine easilly. Pretty sure tho that you will need a new flywheel, coupler and oil pan. With any luck, a regular Vortec intake will work. Does that have a distributor or is it COP?.. Also unsure about the exhaust manifolds but they may work..

 

[thumpar]

Re: replace 4.3 in kind or upgrade to vortec with ramifications/problems?

I think you are looking at spending some serious money to convert that into a 2011 Mercruiser marine engine. They started using catalytic converters that year. Parts will probably have to come directly from Mercury or one of their dealers. Our 2003 Suburban has COP so a good chance that engine does also.

 

[theboatfloats!]

Re: replace 4.3 in kind or upgrade to vortec with ramifications/problems?

Thanks for the responses,

But Engineguy.com sells a marinized 4.3L V6 engine with casting # 12600234, see here:
2007-2011 262 / 4.3 Liter OMC, MerCruiser, Volvo Marine MARINE ENGINE ATKDMX1 EngineGuy

So this casting works in a marine application. I am not the first in this situation.

Regarding the COP: I think that my old 1992 distributor will fit: I removed the thingamajig that a distributor would go in, and the hole opening in the car intake manifold is the same size as my 92, and I saw gears down in the engine. So this should not be a problem. Again Engineguy.com sells this casting # for marine application.

The brand new exhaust manifolds from Sierra still in boxes that I had ordered for my 92 fit this new engine perfectly. No issue with that.

So my remaining questions are:
1. What Mercruiser serial numbers should I be using when looking for parts? I am in the dark on this one and need big help.

2. Does anyone know of part# / kit # to reuse my 1992 power steering pump and 1992 alternator as a V Belt on my new 2011 motor?

3. Same questions to convert to convert to Serpentine Belt.

thank you

 

[matt167]

Re: replace 4.3 in kind or upgrade to vortec with ramifications/problems?

That's a long block, and it says for 2007-2011. I'm not 100% sure but I think quite a few marine 4.3's were EFI after 2007 but I could be wrong. With that said, it does look like a distributor hole in the lifter valley, so if a regular Vortec intake fits on that you may be in luck. You have confirmed the exhaust so that's good.. I'm really not sure on the alternator and power steering.. You may be able to just hang the brackets on the new motor. It does look like those aluminum chunks are the actual brackets for the Chevy pickup. The crank pulley looks to bolt on, so you can probably find an aftermarket hotrod part if nothing more for V belt. From a company like March or other pulley manufacture... Your deffinetly going to be doing some firsts, but it may be worth it in the end.

 

[theboatfloats!]

Re: replace 4.3 in kind or upgrade to vortec with ramifications/problems?


Thank you matt167

1st pix shows the thingamajig where my 92 distributor fits perfectly. My new cast iron marine manifold fits.
2nd pix show 2 electrical sensors next to harmonic balancer where my thumb and middle fingers are. Keep them if they do note interfere with new water pump? But I don't have a Mercruiser # to order by.
3rd pix show front end on Vortec engine
4th pix shows old 1992 pre-Vortec
5th pix shows aluminum oil pan. Does it look the same a marine one?

I tried to install the V-belt pulley from the 1992 to the 2011, but it does not fit tight against 2011 harmonic balancer. I'll have to use a puller to remove both harmonic balancer and do a switch.

1. Will there be issues in using the 1992 Harmonic balancer on the 2011?

2. What Mercruiser serial numbers should I be using when looking for parts? I am in the dark on this one and need big help.

3. Does anyone know of part# / kit # to reuse my 1992 power steering pump and 1992 alternator as a V Belt on my new 2011 motor?

4. Same questions to convert to convert to Serpentine Belt.

thank you