Real, factual test results for doel-fin

thumpar

Admiral
Joined
Jun 21, 2007
Messages
6,138
I'm guessing what you're talking about is broken AV plates, what someone else was claiming was increased stress on a gimbal bearing. I have to wonder if someone was using the fin as a step or something dumb like that.
Why can't you hold a constant speed off plane? I don't wakeboard but will throw up a wake for the jet skis sometimes. I trim it up and run off plane. The speed is consistent without adjusting throttle. It is fun to watch. I have given a few wakeboard boats a run for their money with the size of the wake I can make with the big butt on the boat.
 

jestor68

Commander
Joined
Jun 12, 2012
Messages
2,308
To be clear the SE Sport and Doel Fin are not the same thing at all.

The Doel Fin is the only true hydrofoil(by definition), while the others are simply tabs attached to the lower unit.

As far as horror stories go; I have used the "Doel Fin" on several size boats (out board and sterndrive) with none of the adverse results some talk about.

As far as damage goes, one has been on one of my stern drive boats for going on 17 years, and hasn't broken anything yet.

I'll give it a little more time to see if something happens.
 
Joined
Feb 17, 2012
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2,906
a lot of bass boats can not be fitted with standard trim tabs due to the design at the rear. Mine is a perfect example as the area the trim tab would be attached has a gap between the fiberglass and the transom wood.
 

midcarolina

Chief Petty Officer
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Jul 16, 2013
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I'm willing to bet about half the people who say fins are ugly show up at the boat landing in mid thigh khaki safari shorts.....white crew socks and brown dock shoes!!!!:eek::D

Just sayin......................
 

oldjeep

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Joined
May 17, 2010
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6,455
Why can't you hold a constant speed off plane? I don't wakeboard but will throw up a wake for the jet skis sometimes. I trim it up and run off plane. The speed is consistent without adjusting throttle. It is fun to watch. I have given a few wakeboard boats a run for their money with the size of the wake I can make with the big butt on the boat.

What he said. Before we got the Malibu this year we had a Bayliner 195 for 9 years which is what all my kids learned to wakeboard off of. If you cannot hold any speed you like then you are doing it wrong. Adjust trim until you can hold it at speed off plane.
 

H20Rat

Vice Admiral
Joined
Mar 8, 2009
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5,203
Why can't you hold a constant speed off plane? I don't wakeboard but will throw up a wake for the jet skis sometimes. I trim it up and run off plane. The speed is consistent without adjusting throttle. It is fun to watch. I have given a few wakeboard boats a run for their money with the size of the wake I can make with the big butt on the boat.

Most boats won't hold a consistent speed at that point, they will either fall off plane and slow way down, or speed up and end up on plane. Wakeboats ARE planed (just barely, but the nose has come down) at wake speeds (20 to 23 mph), and also have cruise control to manage the throttle changes needed to hold it exactly there.
 

oldjeep

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May 17, 2010
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Most boats won't hold a consistent speed at that point, they will either fall off plane and slow way down, or speed up and end up on plane. Wakeboats ARE planed (just barely, but the nose has come down) at wake speeds (20 to 23 mph), and also have cruise control to manage the throttle changes needed to hold it exactly there.

Nonsense. And my Malibu is most definitely not on plane at 20MPH when wakeboarding, and its got a wedge and sacks to make sure it stays that way.
 

sphelps

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Nov 16, 2011
Messages
11,462
I'm willing to bet about half the people who say fins are ugly show up at the boat landing in mid thigh khaki safari shorts.....white crew socks and brown dock shoes!!!!:eek::D

Just sayin......................

Actually I usualy have on my surf baggies , white socks , and my work boots ... I would say that combo is prolly just as pretty as a doel-fin ! :lol:
Not really sure if it's a fair assessment but every time I see a boat for sale with a fin . I think it has issues and just keep looking ...
But you know what they say about opinions ... :D
 

Cptkid570

Ensign
Joined
Oct 18, 2005
Messages
967
I know exactly what he is talking about when discussing holding an exact speed that is on the brink of a plane. Plane out and the boat speeds up, don't plane out and the boat slows down. You could trim up, but won't it hurt your u-jont (I/O owners) if you drive trimmed up? I've seen people get lectured for flushing their engine with the outdrive tilted ever so slightly.

So, those of you that have pulled kids on a kneeboard or wakeboard know that you need a proper speed to or you are too fast or too slow.. and unfortunately, that speed can be right before you plane out. It sounds odd to say that.. but, it is what it is.. an odd speed for the boat where the boat wants to plane, but you can't let it because you are now going too fast. It is tricky! Kids are finicky!

I do have a question -- of the broken AV plates.. are they because the fin broke the plate or is it because the operator of the boat hit something with the fin and then the plate broke because the fin collided with an object?

Also, why is it dangerous to have one on an I/O? I'm just curious. I've driven boats with and without them and I can't really tell a difference besides planing at a slower speed.
 

smokeonthewater

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Dec 3, 2009
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I'm guessing what you're talking about is broken AV plates, what someone else was claiming was increased stress on a gimbal bearing. I have to wonder if someone was using the fin as a step or something dumb like that.

yep the antivent plate's were broken.... one was on a friends boat... one side was cracked through the bolt holes, bent upwards and nearly broken off with a triangular piece missing and the other side had cracks through the bolt holes...... The other was on a boat I bought.... it had similar cracks and a chunk missing... that boat had a large swim platform with a nice ladder.... I doubt it was being used as a step but can't say for sure......

The rest of the boats I've dealt with fins on seemed unaffected other than the holes drilled through the plate..... I usually filled the holes w epoxy and hit it with some black krylon when I trashed er I mean 'stored for future use' the fins......

I'd bet you dollars to doughnuts that if you had spent your money on a 4 blade (or huge elephant ear 3 blade) prop with a few less inches of pitch you would have done quite a bit more for your water towing performance.... You might consider doing that too..... ALSO trim WAY up and you will make a bigger wake (but please never near me) and prevent the boat from planing and speeding up.
 

smokeonthewater

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Dec 3, 2009
Messages
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I know exactly what he is talking about when discussing holding an exact speed that is on the brink of a plane. Plane out and the boat speeds up, don't plane out and the boat slows down. You could trim up, but won't it hurt your u-jont (I/O owners) if you drive trimmed up? I've seen people get lectured for flushing their engine with the outdrive tilted ever so slightly.

So, those of you that have pulled kids on a kneeboard or wakeboard know that you need a proper speed to or you are too fast or too slow.. and unfortunately, that speed can be right before you plane out. It sounds odd to say that.. but, it is what it is.. an odd speed for the boat where the boat wants to plane, but you can't let it because you are now going too fast. It is tricky! Kids are finicky!

I do have a question -- of the broken AV plates.. are they because the fin broke the plate or is it because the operator of the boat hit something with the fin and then the plate broke because the fin collided with an object?

Also, why is it dangerous to have one on an I/O? I'm just curious. I've driven boats with and without them and I can't really tell a difference besides planing at a slower speed.

as in my previous post trimming up will extend the non planing speed .... no it is not even slightly bad to run at max trim (not to be confused with tilt which is beyond trim range) which is controlled by the trim limit switch on the outdrive....... full trim any throttle position no issue EXCEPT you SHOULD keep an eye on the temp gauge (a lower pitch prop should prevent any potential overheating issue from towing and plowing)


I didn't SAY a fin was dangerous with an I/O... I said the two boats that were downright scary to operate with the fin were I/O's.... On the first it provided WAY too much stern lift when trimmed down and WAY too much bow lift when trimmed up causing porpoising with very little trim... there was no sweet spot and when trimmed to stop the porpoising the boat became unstable.... tight turns at speed the bow would dig and the stern would slide out possibly throwing passengers overboard and threatening to flip the boat...

On the second it did the same with different problems when at low to moderate speed the boat became VERY top heavy and would lean WAY too much in turns.... We joked that we could almost touch the water with our hands from the flying bridge... we couldn't of course but when making a fairly gentle turn at 15 mph the boat should NOT be leaning so far that people are reaching for hand holds and getting scared.... Removed the fin and the boat ran perfectly.


The first boat was a 20 open boat with a V-8 and alpha with a top speed of around 45 mph...
The second a Carver 2667 (26' flying bridge cruiser) with a 165 hp inline 6 and an alpha with a top speed IIRC of about 30

A third I have now remembered was an 18' aluminum bass boat with a 65 hp mercury outboard.... It behaved very similar to the first one with the engine mounted lower and while it got better with the engine mounted higher and the fin out of the water it started blowing out in turns unless trimmed way down which beside being very annoying would also put the fin back in the water and start the odd unpredictable handling.

The rest just ran better without the fin but weren't scary......... I don't claim that a fin can never improve how a boat runs but rather that USUALLY there is a better solution....
 
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bruceb58

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
30,537
I bought a boat with a Doel Fin on it. If you made a fast turn the stern would wash out. Scared the hell out of me. I took it off and left it off. Gained speed too!

Also, real and factual! :)
 
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midcarolina

Chief Petty Officer
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Jul 16, 2013
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631
I think a foil does exactly what they are supposed to do on most boats......... the problem is you also get negative unwanted side effects on many applications.

If you are only concerned with jumping on plane fast and staying on plane at a reduced speed you will be happy........ but if you run the boat outside of those narrow parameters you will sometimes have negative effects that you may or may not want to live with......

I think if a foil makes you mostly happy smart tabs would be the next logical upgrade to be a permanent fix with non of the draw backs of a fin.
 

Cptkid570

Ensign
Joined
Oct 18, 2005
Messages
967
Thank you for your reply to my questions. It makes sense. I had to replace my outdrive and got a used one from craigslist and it had a fin already on it.. that is why I was wondering. I haven't had the porpoising or trouble with turns, so I think I'll keep it on. I don't drive very fast or take turns too sharp, so it isn't like I'm driving it for performance.
 

500dollar744ti

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 23, 2012
Messages
691
The fin does work, improves hole shot, lowers planing speed but does take away from the top end.

I liked mine but it was more of a necessity for boating with a full load. I wanted the top speed so I got rid of the fin and installed Bennett sport tabs. Now I can plane at REALLY low speeds, get on plane with 10 people and top speed is fastest it has ever been.
 

nola mike

Vice Admiral
Joined
Apr 22, 2009
Messages
5,369
OK, I'm taking mine off the skiff today. . The results will be real and completely subjective (unless it gains/loses more than 3mph or so off the top end).
 

undone

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 26, 2014
Messages
147
OK, I'm taking mine off the skiff today. . The results will be real and completely subjective (unless it gains/loses more than 3mph or so off the top end).

Unless you did the correct set-up procedures and did some testing to get it fine tuned for your boat and motor, taking it off to see if it works better doesn't mean much.


Most of what's been said about them in this thread show's that few people actually know how they were originally designed to work and what they do.


The love hate thing is a bit undeserved for such a simple tool, some boats may be helped by one, some may not benefit at all, and on others it may have negative effects. To make a blanket statement that they are bad would be incorrect and prove you don't know much about them, to say they are always good would mean the same thing.
 
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undone

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 26, 2014
Messages
147
One other thing, those that say they're ugly aren't far off, but there are models that you will probably never see that look much better.
 
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