Re gelcoating my bayliner 2252

[Jet Wrench]

Prep, prep and more prep.......

Prep, prep and more prep.......

Spraying the get coat is easy.... it's how well you prep the hull that counts! Filling, sanding, spot filling, sanding, blending, sanding... Oh, did I mention "SANDING"! I can now fully appreciate how much a good fiberglass shop charges for good work! Read up on the process and if you commit yourself, take your time and don't cut corners. You will see them all in the final product! It took me two solid weeks to prep my 17' Whaler! Worth the effort, but a lot of work!

Jet Wrench

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Re gelcoating my bayliner 2252

Hello TG..

" .Once your prepped and taped off how in gods name could you take 4 hours... "

The deck I was talking about was 45' .. 30 min per pass..15 to remix..15 for a smoke break .. and then PVA and clean up time. ( I think it was more like 5 hours in the end with cleanup )

Even with a 20' boat..thats 15 min per pass..15 min flash time..4 passes.. + 1 for PVA.. thats 2.5 hours + clean gun time..2.5 hours. 20' though..

I was just saying Gel can be reduced for longer pot life.

And if you get your gun ( pressure pot or qt cup ) from HF.. They work fine.. no HVLP for gel IMO ..

YD.

PS. There are tricks to spraying gel right out of the cup you mix it in .. spray flush..spray .. flush .. etc. You have to use Both hands while spraying though. ( Only for hulls )

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Re gelcoating my bayliner 2252

Just so we dont misunderstand...

Gel Does NOT have a 4 hour pot life.. thats just how long the spray took..

Depends on the quality of gel, what MEKP you use and temp.

I do flush my gun with acetone after every full pass then kick the next batch Right when Im ready to do the next pass..

YD.

 

[oops!]

Re: Re gelcoating my bayliner 2252

hi all.

after re gelling a few boats now.....i can honestly say i would rather lay in a ditch and stick pins in my eyes before i re gell an entire boat.

the thread ondarvr gave you is mine.
everything you need to know is in there....this forum is known as boat university...it is fantastic to any one wanting to learn...if they just take the time.

one quick word about ondarvr.....in real life....he is one of north americas top gellcoat professionals....i have investigated this...and it is true...not fiction or fantasy....he has spent many years in the feild before moving to his current occupation, in wich he deals with the chemists in white lab coats that make and test the stuff,,,,,in short....he teaches the teachers that teach shop owners how to use the products. be it gellcoat or fiberglass .
we are very fortunate to have him here on the forums advising new users and boat builders in simple language how to use the products, and where and when what different processes should be used.

as far as re gelling your boat......if you really want to do this.....as yd mentioned...it can be done....but there is a ton of prep, sanding the orange down, and polishing.

gellcoat wants a hard surface next to it when it cures. so what you get after a shoot is really heavy orange peel.
to sand this orange peel....basically you need to fair the entire area smooth with the rest of the boat. if you dont do it correctly....you get a wavy hull.

one quick word about shooting......the gellcoat must be applied at the proper thickness.....this is why most auto painters will not touch gellcoat.....it needs to be shot around 50 thou than sanded to 35.
too thick or too thin and it will crack. which is most likely the cause of the crazing in som spots of your boat to begin with.

but just remember......you can do it.!
just read here, read lots and you will be sucessful.

cheers
oops

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: Re gelcoating my bayliner 2252

Hello TG..

" .Once your prepped and taped off how in gods name could you take 4 hours... "

The deck I was talking about was 45' .. 30 min per pass..15 to remix..15 for a smoke break .. and then PVA and clean up time. ( I think it was more like 5 hours in the end with cleanup )

Even with a 20' boat..thats 15 min per pass..15 min flash time..4 passes.. + 1 for PVA.. thats 2.5 hours + clean gun time..2.5 hours. 20' though..

I was just saying Gel can be reduced for longer pot life.

And if you get your gun ( pressure pot or qt cup ) from HF.. They work fine.. no HVLP for gel IMO ..

YD.

PS. There are tricks to spraying gel right out of the cup you mix it in .. spray flush..spray .. flush .. etc. You have to use Both hands while spraying though. ( Only for hulls )

Never used a pot sprayer...I couldnt even get perfection to atomize correctly in a binks type sprayer... You need to play with a airless some time they can lay down some product in short order and blow just about anything short or tar...From painting water towers to shooting varnish of custom cabinets...its all about tips pressure and speed..I guess i should not refer to pot life..There is no pot..and cleaning is as simple as loading the the lines with thinner

 

[jonesg]

Re: Re gelcoating my bayliner 2252

I've done my share of gel work, but only when applied to a mold as the first layer, I wouldn't want to get involved in spraying it on a boat hull.
The pro's have the right technique, the equipment and the facility.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Re gelcoating my bayliner 2252

Gel has a relatively short pot life..therfore I would NOT recommend an airless.

Gelcoating is much easier to spray..less likely to run ( though it wouldnt matter cause your gonna sand/buff anyway ) .. doesnt matter if you get bugs or dirt in it.. all in all more forgiving.

The pros have no special equipt. Just a basic gun with a larger tip size than for paint ( thats why I recommended the HF special for 19 bucks ).

There is no special Technique.. unlike spraying paint.. now There requires some skill..

No special place or facility ( again unlike Paint which you need a sealed off clean space ). You can spray Gel basically anywere without risk of too much overspray ( Gel is heavy and will fall to the ground unlike paint which atomizes so fine it will just float happily along till it hits someones house or car ).

No matter what you use I still recommend quality saftly equipment.

Im not suggesting that other paints might be more suited for you..Im just saying that Gel is not has hard as you might think.

But just like anything practice is everything. The curve of Gelling is less then painting I can assure you.

YD.

 

[DeepBlue2010]

Re: Re gelcoating my bayliner 2252

This issue is now resolved. Thanks to all of those who took the time to help.

 

[redwhite_blue]

Re: Re gelcoating my bayliner 2252

Deep,

Have you completed the work yet. I am getting ready to do a full hull re-gel coat of my 20 foot SeaSwirl and I would like to know how things went for you.

redwhite_blue

 

[DeepBlue2010]

Re: Re gelcoating my bayliner 2252

I just received my spray equipments and current I am practicing on some ply. Honestly, I don?t know what the fuss about this gel coat business is all about. If you have any experience working with rough surfaces like wood or rocks and you are OK sanding and polishing them until you bring the inner beauty of them out, I think you will do just fine. I also ordered some books I am reading right now; let me know if you need some recommendation. Best of luck to you.

 

[RobbyA]

Re: Re gelcoating my bayliner 2252

I hope you are taking before and after photos. I am curious about the results you will get. I will be facing this crossroad in a year or so and would like to know what I am getting into before hand. I would also be interested in what books you are reading.

 

[redwhite_blue]

Re: Re gelcoating my bayliner 2252

In another thread, I read something about using Duratec Hi-Gloss Additive to mimimize the orange peel. I plan to aquire some and work up a practive run with and without to see if it will save on the sanding after the spray. Just a thought you might want to add to your preparation. I would do it myself, but I am still too hot to do anything.

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Re gelcoating my bayliner 2252

I'll jump back in now.

Duratec works great to make it spray, level and flow better, but you will sacrifice some water and UV resistance.

Reducing gel coat with anything will reduce its cosmetic durability and physical properties. In this case using Duratec you would give up what I listed above to gain ease in spraying and sanding. Its up to the person using the product to decide if the trade off is worth it.

Products like this do help in some ways, pigments and fillers don?t buff out to as a high a gloss as the base resin used to make the gel coat, so when you reduce the filler and pigment loading by adding more resin it tends to yield a higher gloss. With less pigment you tend to get a deeper look because you can see deeper into the film, sort of like a layer of clear over it. The problem is, gel coat relies almost 100% on the pigments and fillers for UV protection, so even reducing them a small amount can create big changes in how long the color and gloss are retained. If it was possible to reduce the pigment loading in gel coat and get the same UV results, we would do it right away, pigments can be very expensive and we don?t want to use any more than is needed.

The other issue with adding Duratec, especially at the recommended 50/50 mix, is that you reduce the hide, you now have far less pigment compared to base resin than it was originally formulated for. This will reduce the hide, meaning it will take a thicker film to mask the color(s) of the substrate. So when your sanding it will be easier get it too thin in some areas and the underlying color will show through. This will be no different than what took place on the small repaired areas on the first attempt.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Re gelcoating my bayliner 2252

But the Duratec 50/50 mix would only be applied for spot repairs as a final coat for blending a deep color.. Never 50/50 for an applied first few repair coats..and Never for Full spray..

YD.

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Re gelcoating my bayliner 2252

But the Duratec 50/50 mix would only be applied for spot repairs as a final coat for blending a deep color.. Never 50/50 for an applied first few repair coats..and Never for Full spray..

YD.

People use it frequently at 50/50 for complete resprays,that's one of the problems, it can also change the color and look when its added. This can be good or bad, sometimes you need to adjust a dark color slightly and depending on how much and what product is added, you can slightly lighten or darken the color. The problem is the repair will discolor and age differently after anything has been added to it, so while at first it will match, in the future it won't.

 

[DeepBlue2010]

Re: Re gelcoating my bayliner 2252

I am taking before and after for everything I am doing on this boat. Gelcoat is not the only problem; it is turning into a restoration project. The previous owner left the boat neglected for full two years. The cabin was full of mold spores to the point I had to wear respirator while I am tearing everything out otherwise I get dizzy ? or very aggressive - in few minutes. The cabin is just bare wood and fiberglass at the moment. In regards to the books, I currently reading ?The Fiberglass Boat Repair Manual [Hardcover]?
I use nozzle #6 with my 4 stage turbine driven HVLP system. Since you still have time, you may want to visit the thread mentioned on page one of this thread. It is full of very valuable info.

 

[redwhite_blue]

Re: Re gelcoating my bayliner 2252

Ondarvr,
In another thread in this forum, I read a post that was recommending a 30% Duratec. I am only considering the idea of using duratec hi-gloss to minimize the orange peel. I plan to experiement with acetone, styrene and the duratec as a thining agent. If I thin with styrene or acetone does that have the same affect as the the duratec in reducing the protective properties of the gelcoat?

Thanks for your time....

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: Re gelcoating my bayliner 2252

Duratec helps gel flow or level that is a given...But this is how i think about it. The sprayer i am going use..How will it blow the product on the hull will the product be uniform will the tip spit at low pressure..will the tip leave the gel's surface smooth and glass like..Its all about being uniform depth and a level surface.

Once you know how your equipment is going to lay down the gel from there you add the duretec to get the smoothest surface you can get..Over simplfied but thats what your looking for....

Now there a two things your going to end with..The final finish and sanding to get it right... and if you dont get it right...Lots of sanding lots and i really hate sanding... Going to the dentist is more enjoyable than sanding...Having a operation is more enjoyable than sanding...Going to a bunco party with 15 old women is more enjoyable than sanding...Hence my statement paint it..But thats just me...I wish you a keen eye...good lighting... and a steady hand...

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Re gelcoating my bayliner 2252

Adding any amount of each will have an effect.

Acetone can inhibit the cure, change the color and soften the gel coat.

Styrene "may" change the color at first, but "will" over time, its greatly affected by UV rays and will yellow and chalk quickly. It also reduces the water and crack resistance.

We already discussed Duratec. 30% is still a very large amount.

At very low (3 to 5%) amounts there may not be a noticeable (its very noticeable in the lab though) change in the product, but as you add more, the affects increase rapidly.



If any of these products were good to have in gel coat, it would already added to it.
Well, styrene is in gel coat, but its formulated to a specific % that may be regulated by Feds, and/or for best performance, adding more decreases performance.

The recommended product is Patchaid, these types of products are made by gel coat companies to have as few negative effects as possible when used correctly.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Re gelcoating my bayliner 2252

Ondarvr,
In another thread in this forum, I read a post that was recommending a 30% Duratec. I am only considering the idea of using duratec hi-gloss to minimize the orange peel. I plan to experiement with acetone, styrene and the duratec as a thining agent. If I thin with styrene or acetone does that have the same affect as the the duratec in reducing the protective properties of the gelcoat?

Thanks for your time....

Hello RWB... Possibly start another Thread/post ?

Thinners are just that..reducers..( for post applications ).

Get some Mek and Pva.. experiment with those 2 ..

YD.