Questions regarding tow vehicle

[TheguyDirk]

Hi all, I have a 1974 sea ray srv200 runabout, gas tank in the nose. I haven’t driven on scales but with my big steel roller trailer I estimate I’m at about 5k-6k depending on how much gas I have and other gear.
My tow vehicle is a ‘17 Silverado 1500, 5.3L and my rear end dips, sinks, and bobs around on any and all bumps it seems making for a very unsettling haul. Although my max bumper pull is at about 10k I feel a 2500 might suit this setup better. What are you hauling and what are you hauling with it? Am I outa my mind trading in just to tow a boat every other weekend in summers? (Also other things every now and then but like 2-3/yr).
Peoples thoughts on running air bags?

 

[gr8knurlin]

I had a silverado 1500 with the 5.3, it was an LS model and although the official tow capacity was 9500lbs I could not comfortably put more than 500lbs of tongue weight on it. I ended up with a leveling/stabalizer hitch to tow my 6000lb travel trailer and got pricing on airbags and adding additional leafs to the suspension but in the end ended up trading it out for a 1500HD with a 3/4 ton rear end and 6L motor. The 5.3L is an awesome motor but not great for towing.

Since then I've upgraded to a Toyota Tundra 1500 with 5.7L & airbags and have not looked back

 

[dingbat]

Your estimated boat weight is way heavy......

Pulling a 22' WA with a know weight of #5,700.
Pulling it with a 2015, F150 crew cab with 3.5EB and heavy tow package.
Rated at #11,8XX.
Truck doesn't know it's back there

 

[JASinIL2006]

You probably would be well served by a visit to the scales to find out what your loaded truck and trailer combo is in reality.

Everyone is always fixated on their towing capacity, but the real concern is usually payload. Your payload includes the tongue weight of your trailer, plus the weight of all the gear in the truck plus any people (including a driver). Payload is almost always exceeded before towing weight is. There is nothing you can do to increase your truck's payload; airbags, stiffer shock, etc. won't change it. A weight distributing hitch could help, but you don't often see them used with a boat of only 20'.

The good news is that while you often recommend a tongue weight of 10% (of the total trailer + boat weight), with a boat, you often can do just fine at 8% or even 6% tongue weight due to the more aerodynamic shape of a boat.

A visit to CAT scales would allow you figure out what you tongue weight is and allow you try to adjust it, either by moving the boat back a bit on the trailer (if possible) or by changing the distribution of gear stored on the boat when trailering.

It's hard to imagine that a half-ton pickup couldn't pull a 20' boat, so I'd definitely be looking into weight distribution to see what's up. Your truck isn't leveled or lifted or anything like that, is it?

 

[TheguyDirk]

Your estimated boat weight is way heavy......

Pulling a 22' WA with a know weight of #5,700.
Pulling it with a 2015, F150 crew cab with 3.5EB and heavy tow package.
Rated at #11,8XX.
Truck doesn't know it's back there

I agree

You probably would be well served by a visit to the scales to find out what your loaded truck and trailer combo is in reality.

Everyone is always fixated on their towing capacity, but the real concern is usually payload. Your payload includes the tongue weight of your trailer, plus the weight of all the gear in the truck plus any people (including a driver). Payload is almost always exceeded before towing weight is. There is nothing you can do to increase your truck's payload; airbags, stiffer shock, etc. won't change it. A weight distributing hitch could help, but you don't often see them used with a boat of only 20'.

The good news is that while you often recommend a tongue weight of 10% (of the total trailer + boat weight), with a boat, you often can do just fine at 8% or even 6% tongue weight due to the more aerodynamic shape of a boat.

A visit to CAT scales would allow you figure out what you tongue weight is and allow you try to adjust it, either by moving the boat back a bit on the trailer (if possible) or by changing the distribution of gear stored on the boat when trailering.

It's hard to imagine that a half-ton pickup couldn't pull a 20' boat, so I'd definitely be looking into weight distribution to see what's up. Your truck isn't leveled or lifted or anything like that, is it?

I’m going to agree on the fact I need to visit scales for an exact number on combined pulled weight and tongue weight. (As the poster above also mentioned)
My estimate comes from the brochure saying a 165hp version dry is 2700lbs and I have a slightly bigger engine than that currently. Also I factored in a full gas tank and any other water logging that may have happened. My trailer is way overbuilt but I’d say 6k is way over estimate.

anywho I had the same thoughts that such a new 1/2ton was having trouble keeping control over only a 20’ Was weird and Im leaning to the soft leafs that seem to be on this truck. And the 80k mile ranchos. Hence my airbag comment. Not lifted or anything yet.

 

[gr8knurlin]

I airbag'd my Tundra for $900CAD. It has no impact on capacities but it does help to level the load and makes towing more comfortable.

My silverado was a 2wd LS model and the rear end sagged with little weight

 

[JASinIL2006]

My F150 has a payload of 1977 lbs. With me, my wife and two adult friends riding in the cab, we already have used up about 800 lbs of payload capacity (assuming the passengers are some of our larger friends).

If our trailer has a tongue weight of 450 lbs., we would have only 727 lbs. of capacity for any other gear. If we're just making a day trip to the river, that's plenty of leftover payload capacity. If we're going to our cabin in Ontario for two weeks, that 727 lbs evaporates quickly. (Same think if the boat is loaded heavier, say with extra fuel tanks.)

Airbags, airshocks, etc. might make you feel more stable, but they won't make your towing any safer and they certainly won't increase your capacity. A little bit of sagging is fine - that's why many half-tons are built with a bit of rake, so when the back end is loaded they're more level. If you're swaying and bobbing, though, something is not right.

 

[mike_i]

How does your truck stop with all of the towing weight?

 

[TheguyDirk]

I airbag'd my Tundra for $900CAD. It has no impact on capacities but it does help to level the load and makes towing more comfortable.

My silverado was a 2wd LS model and the rear end sagged with little weight

If I jump on my hitch I can get a lottttt of bounce from my rear.

My F150 has a payload of 1977 lbs. With me, my wife and two adult friends riding in the cab, we already have used up about 800 lbs of payload capacity (assuming the passengers are some of our larger friends).

If our trailer has a tongue weight of 450 lbs., we would have only 727 lbs. of capacity for any other gear. If we're just making a day trip to the river, that's plenty of leftover payload capacity. If we're going to our cabin in Ontario for two weeks, that 727 lbs evaporates quickly. (Same think if the boat is loaded heavier, say with extra fuel tanks.)

Airbags, airshocks, etc. might make you feel more stable, but they won't make your towing any safer and they certainly won't increase your capacity. A little bit of sagging is fine - that's why many half-tons are built with a bit of rake, so when the back end is loaded they're more level. If you're swaying and bobbing, though, something is not right.

Sorta same “boat” if I assume load up 4 adults and coolers in then that available gvwr drops sorta fast. Understandable no bags can increase that number.

How does your truck stop with all of the towing weight?

you know honestly decent. I have upgrade the brakes anyway.

 

[Scott Danforth]

I pull my 5800# of boat/trailer/gaer all day long with my 2014 Sierra 1500 with a 5.3 and about an extra 2000# in the bed

and I know my 26 foot boat weighs a whole heck of a lot more than your 20 foot boat.

check your tongue weight on the trailer, make sure that the boat is cinched up against the winch stop and strapped down at the transom, and if your shocks are older than 5 years old on the truck, replace them.

also make sure your trailer tires are fully inflated.

bet your over 10% on tongue weight, bet there is a gap between the bow and the bow stop, and bet your under-inflated on tires.

 

[TheguyDirk]

I pull my 5800# of boat/trailer/gaer all day long with my 2014 Sierra 1500 with a 5.3 and about an extra 2000# in the bed

and I know my 26 foot boat weighs a whole heck of a lot more than your 20 foot boat.

check your tongue weight on the trailer, make sure that the boat is cinched up against the winch stop and strapped down at the transom, and if your shocks are older than 5 years old on the truck, replace them.

also make sure your trailer tires are fully inflated.

bet your over 10% on tongue weight, bet there is a gap between the bow and the bow stop, and bet your under-inflated on tires.

Shocks aren’t quite 5 years old on my ‘17 1500 but the factory ones have seen some work and I have been in debates of throwing bilsteins back on like I had on an 04 burb.
Also have an appointment at the local tire place here this weekend to get trailer tires balanced and probably replaced as they’re age is unknown to me.

 

[dingbat]

Shocks aren’t quite 5 years old on my ‘17 1500 but the factory ones have seen some work and I have been in debates of throwing bilsteins back on like I had on an 04 burb.
Also have an appointment at the local tire place here this weekend to get trailer tires balanced and probably replaced as they’re age is unknown to me.

Shocks are not the problem. It’s the soft springs.

Had OE auto levelers on the 2001 Tahoe with the tow package.

Pulled the boat rather well until the shocks wore out. Wasn’t spending $600 on new shocks for a 14 yro truck.

In the end the rear end sagged so bad the equalizers on the trailer no longer worked properly.

 

[ahicks]

Thinking tongue weight may be an issue as well. A pick up should have no trouble with a 20' boat....

 

[TheguyDirk]

Thinking tongue weight may be an issue as well. A pick up should have no trouble with a 20' boat....

I was thinking that too so with the multiple suggestions to look at tongue weight I did a young and dumb thing yesterday and instead of the bathroom scale method I figured I know what I can deadlift and what weight feels like. TLR I can pick up the tongue of my trailer so it is less than <400 for sure which means the truck should handle it more than easily.
If I jump on my hitch I can get my rear end to bounce up and down quite easily and I’m feeling that that is where the issue lies. Be it the leafs or shocks.

 

[Alumarine]

I don't know about you but if I could lift the tongue on that rig then it's way to little tongue weight.
Part or all of your problem could be the tail wagging the dog.

Try it with more tongue weight. Either move the boat forward or the axle back.

 

[JASinIL2006]

I was thinking that too so with the multiple suggestions to look at tongue weight I did a young and dumb thing yesterday and instead of the bathroom scale method I figured I know what I can deadlift and what weight feels like. TLR I can pick up the tongue of my trailer so it is less than <400 for sure which means the truck should handle it more than easily.
If I jump on my hitch I can get my rear end to bounce up and down quite easily and I’m feeling that that is where the issue lies. Be it the leafs or shocks.

How much fuel do you have in that gas tank in the bow? That could make a huge difference in tongue weight.

 

[TheguyDirk]

How much fuel do you have in that gas tank in the bow? That could make a huge difference in tongue weight.

Currently about none. Which I know will a full tank will add 3-400lbs overall but my tongue weight isn’t overloaded just by adding that.

 

[Scott Danforth]

if your tongue weight is that light, I am going with the whole boat is rocking fore/aft over the CG and lifting/bucking against the truck in addition other things

too little tongue weight and the trailer becomes unstable and wags side-to-side

 

[jhande]

How about thinking of getting a weight distribution hitch with a sway bar attachment?

My dad used his F250 to tow a 25' camper trailer that mom always over packed. With a regular hitch hook-up the truck was a beast to drive, bouncing and swaying everywhere. Once he upgraded the hitch to the weight distribution one he didn't even know the camper was on the truck.

 

[Scott Danforth]

no need for a WD hitch below 6k