Question for the experts on fiberglass dust

[GT1000000]

Re: Question for the experts on fiberglassing a 1976 ProCraft 1500 tri-hull

Re: Question for the experts on fiberglassing a 1976 ProCraft 1500 tri-hull

PS- I replaced my garboard/bilge drain with one of these... http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=521706&p=3892547&viewfull=1#post3892547... it is a captive garboard drain made by SeaDog

 

[blkvyyper]

Re: Question for the experts on fiberglassing a 1976 ProCraft 1500 tri-hull

Re: Question for the experts on fiberglassing a 1976 ProCraft 1500 tri-hull

Hey hey GT1m,
good to hear from you buddy...I see you found my thread...thanks for the reply to the thread and thanks for the help. As you can see I got a mess on my hands, created more than i had in the first place...LOL got carried a way with the grinder but want it done right. Actually thinking of sealing up these holes and redoing them. Don't know why they make the drain hole so high up that all the water doesn't drain. Had to bring the project to a halt for the time being...That ole money tree got dry rot...LOL. So gotta save up some to get my materials together.

BV

 

[blkvyyper]

Question for the experts on PB vs. PL 5200

Question for the experts on PB vs. PL 5200

Hello guys,
Been a while since I been on, but been doing a lot of research. My question is about PB vs. PL. Is there any advantage or disadvantage to using one or the other for putting in stringers or transom building? Laminating two pieces of plywood together for example for a transom build. Also, I've heard that the stringers shouldn't touch the hull when being installed. Some say it's fine others say it's not. Yet on Archbuilder's thread, he poured Seacast for his main stringer and it, of course, is attached to the hull.

Can someone clear this up or give me some insight on this?

Thanks,

BV

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Question for the experts on PB vs. PL 5200

Re: Question for the experts on PB vs. PL 5200

I'll try my best to "Clear the Air" on this. The Fiberglass overlay of the core material is what's most important. It's what carries the load. If enuf glass is layed the stringer material can melt away with no significant loss of structural integrity. You can use Foam pieces to keep the wood off the hull, PL, PB Pieces of wood etc... It's really not that important. You don't want the wood to lay on the hull because the density of the wood is much more than the PB, PL or what ever is use. When the hull flexes and it will, the hard spot will cause the gelcoat to crack. Seacast is Much less dense than wood. For building the transom All that's really required to glue it onto the hull is Resin and Cabosil. I like to add about a quarter cup of milled fibers for a bit of added strength but it's not absolutely required. Many have used the PL also. I don't recommend it but that's just me. The real strength of the transom comes from the tabbing to the hull just like the stringers. It's the Glass that gives the boat it's strength, NOT the wood. If your glassing is good the boat will be strong. The wood in a transom is a bit more important due to the motor or outdrive hanging off of it. Hope this helps some.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: Question for the experts on PB vs. PL 5200

Re: Question for the experts on PB vs. PL 5200

And would only add 2 things:
1: TiteBond3 is a great, inexpensive (relatively) option to laminate the 2 pieces of 3/4" plywood transom to each other prior to wrapping them w/ CSM & poly resin outside of the boat. Then installing the assembly to the hull w/ PB or PL.

2: If you use hard plastic or wood shims/spacers to support the stringers 1/4" off the hull they need to be removed. Bed the stringers in w/ PB or PL, leaving a gap at your 1/4" spacers. If they are hard, they need to be removed prior to completing the bedding, and fiberglass wrapping.

Else follow the links in WOG's signature line. The transom clamps are GREAT, and nearly required for OB transom installations. If the cap has been removed, they also would work great on an I/O transom....

 

[blkvyyper]

Re: Question for the experts on PB vs. PL 5200

Re: Question for the experts on PB vs. PL 5200

WOG and jbcurt00,
thanks for both of your replies, I understand that now. Guess to much researching can get you into trouble quick. So if the stringer core system really isn't that important, I should be able to use Styrofoam (closed cell) and form the substructure and use a few layers of csm and 1708 to get the form since the glass is what is carrying the weight. Is this correct? Then I was thinking once the deck goes on doing this way, you couldn't screw it down, so i guess you glue it down. One more thing that needs to be cleared up or I just haven't read it. When doing an initial wet out on virgin wood so to speak. Example, transom wetting out before apply glass to let it soak in. Is the catalyst added for this soaking or are you just wetting it out with resin?

thanks,

BV

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Question for the experts on PB vs. PL 5200

Re: Question for the experts on PB vs. PL 5200

Yes you can use foam as a core for the stringers, but polyester resin will dissolve most types of foam you can buy at the store. You always add catalyst to the resin, it serves no purpose without it.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: Question for the experts on PB vs. PL 5200

Re: Question for the experts on PB vs. PL 5200

I wouldn't try to reinvent the entire stringer system. Just take reasonable & diligent measures to fully encapsulate plywood stringers with catalyzed resin & fiberglass, bed them in PB or PL and tab/glass them to the hull.

And I absolutely agree w/ ondarvr. He, YD and others are experts in their fields.

 

[blkvyyper]

Re: Question for the experts on PB vs. PL 5200

Re: Question for the experts on PB vs. PL 5200

Ondarvr,jbcurt00,
thanks again for the reply...cleared that up. Think I'm good for the moment, just gotta get started again.

jbcurt00 - you're right, YD, Ondarvr, WOG, and some others are truly experts at what they do. got mad respect for them, and they don't mind chiming in to help you out. Some people tend to be a bunch of a's and not share their knowledge. Have to say, the experts here make this one of the best sites I found.

Everyone have a good cluck and gobble day....

BV

 

[GT1000000]

Re: Question for the experts on fiberglassing a 1976 ProCraft 1500 tri-hull

Re: Question for the experts on fiberglassing a 1976 ProCraft 1500 tri-hull

Happy Thanksgiving!

 

[blkvyyper]

Re: Question for the experts on fiberglassing a 1976 ProCraft 1500 tri-hull

Re: Question for the experts on fiberglassing a 1976 ProCraft 1500 tri-hull

Hey GT!!!
Happy cluck and gobble day to you also!!!

BV

 

[blkvyyper]

Re: Question for the experts on materials

Re: Question for the experts on materials

Hello forum,
Hope everyone's holiday was safe and most of all fattening....LOL. I don't know if i can do this but gonna ask that you review these two links i've posted. The first is on a cloth from from Prisma preforms. If you go the the materials section and read about the cloth listed. It's said to wet out very easily and alot stronger than the csm and 1708 combination, plus conforms alot easier to angles.

Prisma_Preforms_BULKHEADS_STRINGERS_DECK_KITS

The other is I'm thinking about using closed cell foam form for decks, stringers, and transoms builds.

TR-Marine

Please take the time to review these links and give some feedback on your opinions. I haven't priced any of this yet so i don't know what the cost of any of is.

THanks,

BV

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Question for the experts on materials

Re: Question for the experts on materials

It all works, but in the end it matters more in how good of a job you do than the exact materials used. Is the reason you want to use these products for extra strength, less weight or longer life? I ask it this way because it was strong enough when it was first built with cheap wood (I assume it didn't fail). The weight savings will be minimal, maybe a 6 pack or two. It may last longer if you do a poor job, but unless you plan to keep it another 20 or 30 years it won't make much of a difference. The other side is if you want to use them and the cost fits into your budget, there's no reason not to.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: Question for the experts on materials

Re: Question for the experts on materials

Unless you win the lottery tomorrow, I stand by my earlier advice to not attempt to reinvent the stringer system, and the newly added reinvention of the deck & transom systems.

Nice products, may be cost effective for a production boat builder when purchased in bulk, or when added to a custom boat build out. I suspect that like nidacore, seacast and other similar substitute products, for most DIY boat builders, they will be too costly before shipping.

If you win the lottery, want to restore a 1960 Glastron for me? 1st to ask = 1st to get a gratis hook-up, right?

Awaiting notification of the celebratory party @ BV's place:

EDIT: Ondarvr beat me to it....

 

[GT1000000]

Re: Question for the experts: What would you do?

Re: Question for the experts: What would you do?

100% agree with both of the above...the quality of the work and attention to detail can easily outweigh the extra expense of better materials...

And on the lottery thing...I'll patiently wait in line for seconds...

 

[blkvyyper]

Re: Question for the experts on materials

Re: Question for the experts on materials

Ondarvr and jbcurt00,
thanks for your replys. yes my thought and i am after weight reduction and don't know if it's possible, trying to find one thing that will do the same thing as csm and 1708 combination with one layup. Eh, can't blame a noob for trying right.

Ondarvr- yeah going for the light weight, extra strength, the boat lasted this long so i guess if i stick with what you expert say, it'll last even longer. But like i said, you guys know more than i do, just wanted to see what your thoughts were on it.



jbcurt00- and your right about reinventing the wheel, if it isn't broke, don't try to fix it. But no one said you can't try screw it up right..LOL Done a good job of that when i sanded the gelcoat off like a dummy.
My friend, if i hit the lottery tomorrow, i'll buy you a new one!!!...LOL, taking me long enough to do this one, been sitting over a yr now...forget that, I'll buy me and you a new one and get you experts to do this one and tell everyone i did it....(smile). Then we can get the whole Iboats forum together for one big fishing, cookout, and drinking festival!!! with all that money up for grabs, all you guys would have to do is show up, stay for a weekend and we'd party til 1999, we'd turn time backwards....LOL

BV

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Question for the experts on materials

Re: Question for the experts on materials

Ondarvr and jbcurt00,
trying to find one thing that will do the same thing as csm and 1708 combination with one layup.


BV

Not sure what you mean by this. You can do several layers at one time with just the normal products.

 

[blkvyyper]

Re: Question for the experts: What would you do?

Re: Question for the experts: What would you do?

hey, hey, GT...
how you doing my friend? I know what your saying...The ole skool way hasn't failed, the boat lasted since 1900 and 76. but with all the rot and soaked foam...i think top speed on her was 32mph. She got a johnson 85 on it so i'm thinking with all the lighter materials, should get atleast 33mph...LOL I'd like to get rid of the wood all together cause if i do this rebuild, gonna keep the ole "shucky-duck" and buy a new one someday. Was thinking of upgrading to like a 125 merc... bet i'll get 34mph then...LOL. I'm reading Micks110 thread now and he had a good ideal of wrapping foam in tape to do his stringers and forms. but he pulled them out to pour Seacast. I was thinking of the same thing but leaving the foam and just wrapping with glass over them...But don't trust the gluing of the deck down since i couldn't use screws. Ondarvr and jbcurt00 have since talked me out of it but that's what us noobs do, screw up stuff.

Still working on the money tree, that lotto looking good, eh you can get seconds...and take some home too!

BV

 

[blkvyyper]

Can Someone Answer This?

Can Someone Answer This?

Hey guys,
As you know I have a '76 ProCraft 1500. I was going back through some pics I took, when I ran across the stringer system. Can someone assess if this was the original system or may have been replaced. I don't know how the lamination process was back then, or if the even laminated ply together to make stringers. All i know this is a 2x6 for the main stringer and had woven roving draped over it.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: Can Someone Answer This?

Re: Can Someone Answer This?

Based on this pix of a 1978 ProCraft:

And what appears to be a 1/2" ply rip running down the center of your 2X6 center stringer:

And the total lack of metal flake in either your blue/silver interior & hull, I'd hazard a guess of not the original stringer.

It may have been done totally different in 1976 VS 1978, but the silver & blue are very close to the right hue/shade, just no metal flake...

Do the blue & silver sand like paint (thin, relatively easy to sand thru) or like gelcoat (thicker application, and harder to sand thru)?

Really good 2-part catalyzed epoxy paint would also be hard to sand thru.

Any other signs that made you think that it was odd (not factory) or previously redone?