Proper Prop Pitch

EGlideRider

Lieutenant Junior Grade
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Dec 14, 2008
Messages
1,000
Re: Proper Prop Pitch

I am "NOT" knowledgeable on prop issues, so what better place to ask, but I need more than "because they say so".

You've gotten a lots more info than 'because they say so', especially from SilverTip, and yet you insist on staying with your obviously over pitched prop?

Mmmmm.... Go figure........
 

EricJRW

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Feb 3, 2010
Messages
488
Re: Proper Prop Pitch

That was some good reading. Thank you.

I can think of one one thing that might be worth adding. Since finding the "perfect" prop is not always a simple thing, one thing I have read is that some places (usually seems to be the independent prop shops) offer "prop exchange programs" or have "loaner props" so you can dial in the right prop.

So this may be worth looking into. In my case I made a very educated guess on a new prop size (bought the prop at iboats), and it worked out for the better. Now my old prop is my spare.
 

Traceyh

Seaman
Joined
Aug 16, 2010
Messages
66
Re: Proper Prop Pitch

I am "NOT" knowledgeable on prop issues, so what better place to ask, but I need more than "because they say so".

You've gotten a lots more info than 'because they say so', especially from SilverTip, and yet you insist on staying with your obviously over pitched prop?

Mmmmm.... Go figure........

That was helpful, thanks. The prop I have on IS the prop recommended by the local boat places that I have called, and it is within the recommended RPM range for the engine at WOT, so how do you figure I have an obvious over pitched prop?

Oh wait, were you just trying to be a wiseguy...lol
 

EGlideRider

Lieutenant Junior Grade
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Dec 14, 2008
Messages
1,000
Re: Proper Prop Pitch

My apologies. I misread your earlier post to be 4300 RPM's. 5300 is at the low end of the WOT range. I prefer to be at the upper end of the range but understand your reasoning.

Hang out here. We are not all 'wise-guys'.
 

Traceyh

Seaman
Joined
Aug 16, 2010
Messages
66
Re: Proper Prop Pitch

My apologies. I misread your earlier post to be 4300 RPM's. 5300 is at the low end of the WOT range. I prefer to be at the upper end of the range but understand your reasoning.

Hang out here. We are not all 'wise-guys'.

No problem, as with every forum I have taken part in, there is a wealth of knowledge. I am new here so I dont know yet who holds that knowledge. It takes time to learn the people and their particular skillsets. That why I have the "not just because they say so" attitude. Im satisfied that like every other forum out there, most just want to help, or get some help. I have received some good info here, and hopefully I have given some good info on the Mercury/Mariner forum, as my mechanical and electrical skills are some of my strong points.
Thanks again to all.
 

sethjon

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jun 8, 2010
Messages
692
Re: Proper Prop Pitch

Say that three times fast... but I digress...

I have a Lowe 24' Windcruiser with a 90HP Mariner on it.
It has a 14x13P prop on it. I feel that maybe it needs a little larger pitch prop on it. I am totally unqualified to make that statement however and am looking for advise on proper pitch. My gut feeling is something like a 13x19P or maybe a
13x21P, but I am really clueless. I have done "some" research, but am not finding any solid answers. I know there are some "pros" on here that can/will help out I'm sure.
Thanks ahead of time.

Are y ou looking for more top end or a better hole shot? For a little more top end go up in pitch 2". I wouldn't go up more than that. For a better hoe shot go lower by 2"
 

jay_merrill

Vice Admiral
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
5,653
Re: Proper Prop Pitch

I think that what you are misunderstanding, is that determining correct prop pitch via WOT rpm determination does tell you what you need to know about operation at less than WOT settings.

If you over-prop the engine, it will lug at all rpm settings. What will vary, is the degree to which it is lugging. When you are at the peak torque point in the powerband, you will be lugging to a lesser degree, but you will still be lugging. Above and below that value, there will be variation in the degree to which you are lugging, but absent all sorts of monitoring of various parameters, you'll never know just how much.

The question that I would ask, is whether trying to be that exact is worth the effort. Its much easier to just prop the motor to stay within the manufacturer's recommended WOT range and fine tune from there. In fact, the manufacturer has accepted the fact that there is no single WOT rpm that is optimal in all situations - that is why they provide a range.

If you are currently getting 5,300 rpm at WOT and that is within the recomended range for your motor, you are in pretty good shape. From this point, if you want to try a couple of alternative props, I would say to go for it. Just to give you something to go on - a general rule of thumb on prop pitch, is that you will gain or lose about 200 rpm per inch of prop pitch, depending on whether you go up or down in pitch. The relationship between higher/lower pitch is inverse to the gain/loss in rpm. Bear in mind also that this "rule" is general - it varies with a number of things, including prop material, cupping, etc.

You are getting good advice here - I suggest you listen to it.



???
 

Traceyh

Seaman
Joined
Aug 16, 2010
Messages
66
Re: Proper Prop Pitch

I think that what you are misunderstanding, is that determining correct prop pitch via WOT rpm determination does tell you what you need to know about operation at less than WOT settings.

If you over-prop the engine, it will lug at all rpm settings. What will vary, is the degree to which it is lugging. When you are at the peak torque point in the powerband, you will be lugging to a lesser degree, but you will still be lugging. Above and below that value, there will be variation in the degree to which you are lugging, but absent all sorts of monitoring of various parameters, you'll never know just how much.

The question that I would ask, is whether trying to be that exact is worth the effort. Its much easier to just prop the motor to stay within the manufacturer's recommended WOT range and fine tune from there. In fact, the manufacturer has accepted the fact that there is no single WOT rpm that is optimal in all situations - that is why they provide a range.

If you are currently getting 5,300 rpm at WOT and that is within the recomended range for your motor, you are in pretty good shape. From this point, if you want to try a couple of alternative props, I would say to go for it. Just to give you something to go on - a general rule of thumb on prop pitch, is that you will gain or lose about 200 rpm per inch of prop pitch, depending on whether you go up or down in pitch. The relationship between higher/lower pitch is inverse to the gain/loss in rpm. Bear in mind also that this "rule" is general - it varies with a number of things, including prop material, cupping, etc.

You are getting good advice here - I suggest you listen to it.



???

Yes, I am beginning to see that the info given is pretty consistent, and seems reasonable.

Are y ou looking for more top end or a better hole shot? For a little more top end go up in pitch 2". I wouldn't go up more than that. For a better hoe shot go lower by 2"

Actually neither, as I am on a pontoon, I take off easy, and never run WOT, I am looking for the best midrange performance. It is beginning to look like I may already have my best prop choice on. I need to replace it because it is pretty beat up, but thats the way I got it. Now the decision comes to aluminum or stainless.
 

Traceyh

Seaman
Joined
Aug 16, 2010
Messages
66
Re: Proper Prop Pitch

I was just reading another post in the Mercury/Mariner forum, and a member mentioned in discussion a "prop designed for a pontoon", said was designed for heavy thrust. Also said they have larger blades? Is this what im looking for?
I was unaware of props designed for specific application. Where would I find more about that?
 

Traceyh

Seaman
Joined
Aug 16, 2010
Messages
66
Re: Proper Prop Pitch

I was looking on boats.net for props (tell me if there is a better place to buy props, such as a site sponsor). Having read more on the subject, it seems that there are many who recommend a 4 blade prop for a pontoon. While I am currently running a 14x13P 3 blade, I looked for a 14x13P 4 blade, and none was offered. My question is what would be equal in a 13" 4 blade. They offer a 13x15P 4 blade, would this be close to my current 14x13P? Man o man am I ever confused on this prop issue. Im beginning to feel like a real dumb a** here...
 

Boss Hawg

Lieutenant
Joined
Apr 9, 2009
Messages
1,433
Re: Proper Prop Pitch

I was looking on boats.net for props (tell me if there is a better place to buy props, such as a site sponsor). Having read more on the subject, it seems that there are many who recommend a 4 blade prop for a pontoon. While I am currently running a 14x13P 3 blade, I looked for a 14x13P 4 blade, and none was offered. My question is what would be equal in a 13" 4 blade. They offer a 13x15P 4 blade, would this be close to my current 14x13P? Man o man am I ever confused on this prop issue. Im beginning to feel like a real dumb a** here...

Dont- I've been here a spell, read ALOT & still stay confused :p
Thats why i'm watchin your thread close, I'm in no way 100% sure i have the best prop for my setup - I think we should both look into the "Big Eared" pontoon props :rolleyes:
 

jay_merrill

Vice Admiral
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
5,653
Re: Proper Prop Pitch

While a 4 blade might be a good choice, if you are running an aluminum prop now, you might want to consider a 3 blade stainless prop of the same pitch that you are now using.

I tend to run my boat just as you do. I have it propped to run at WOT at a point that is a bit above the mid-range of acceptable rpm. I rarely run the motor at WOT, however, instead choosing to run at about 70% of available power. This gives me a decent cruise speed and what I consider to be excellent fuel economy.

Prior to buying my current prop, I had a three blade aluminum prop on the motor. I was considering a 4 blade prop as well and sought advice here at iboats. Someone suggested that I go to a stainless 3 blade instead. I bought a Powertech cupped prop and have been very pleased with it. The Powertech is the same pitch and diameter as my previous prop, yet I gained 100 rpm at WOT. I'm not exactly sure why that is the case, but my guess is that it has to do with the blade material (stainless steel, less flex) and the fact that the prop is cupped.



???
 

woolznaz

Cadet
Joined
Jun 22, 2010
Messages
29
Re: Proper Prop Pitch

I bought my boat used and was told by the manufacturer (South Bay) that I should try an aggressively cupped prop and that if I take my performance specs to a prop shop they will know how to handle it. While I believe that will likely be true (assuming a good prop shop) can someone here tell me what it means to "cup" or "aggressively cup" a prop? I'm not trying to hijack the thread, but since cupping came up, I thought I would ask. Thank you!
 

EricJRW

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Feb 3, 2010
Messages
488
Re: Proper Prop Pitch

I bought my boat used and was told by the manufacturer (South Bay) that I should try an aggressively cupped prop and that if I take my performance specs to a prop shop they will know how to handle it. While I believe that will likely be true (assuming a good prop shop) can someone here tell me what it means to "cup" or "aggressively cup" a prop? I'm not trying to hijack the thread, but since cupping came up, I thought I would ask. Thank you!

"Cupping" basically rolls the back (trailing) edge of the prop. The guy at my prop shop suggested the same, but I'm doing changes one at a time to see how things go. For now, I really can't complain. But having a prop cupped seems like an inexpensive way to squeeze a little more performance out of your current prop.

BTW, I'm pretty curious about the 4 vs. 3-blade aspect. I never even considered 4 when I bought my new prop... I was more or less replacing what I had and did not think about adding another blade.
 

woolznaz

Cadet
Joined
Jun 22, 2010
Messages
29
Re: Proper Prop Pitch

Eric,
Thank you for the explanation. BTW, I have a 4-blade to try on mine, too. If I get any results, I'll post the comparison between it and other props.
 

EricJRW

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Feb 3, 2010
Messages
488
Re: Proper Prop Pitch

If you do go with a four blade, do let me know how it goes. Hopefully I won't be in the market for a new prop anytime soon, but I do wish I had given that concept more thought. For now I can't complain. With me and the wife and a full tank of gas (20g) we can hit 21 MPH and from what I understand that's about as good as it gets.
 

olefisherman

Cadet
Joined
Jan 22, 2010
Messages
29
Re: Proper Prop Pitch

my 2 cents. mosst modern 2 stroke boat engines are are high performance very high output motors and they are made to run at wot. and best performance at wot will translate to best performance throughout the entire rpm range. that said i think the whole discussion is a tempest in a thimble. just get on the boat and have a great day!:):D
 

Boss Hawg

Lieutenant
Joined
Apr 9, 2009
Messages
1,433
Re: Proper Prop Pitch

my 2 cents. mosst modern 2 stroke boat engines are are high performance very high output motors and they are made to run at wot. and best performance at wot will translate to best performance throughout the entire rpm range. that said i think the whole discussion is a tempest in a thimble. just get on the boat and have a great day!:):D

Dont worry -
I drink too :rolleyes:
 

Traceyh

Seaman
Joined
Aug 16, 2010
Messages
66
Re: Proper Prop Pitch

my 2 cents. mosst modern 2 stroke boat engines are are high performance very high output motors and they are made to run at wot. and best performance at wot will translate to best performance throughout the entire rpm range. that said i think the whole discussion is a tempest in a thimble. just get on the boat and have a great day!:):D

I am coming around to those terms, We had the boat out yesterday, and I ran it near WOT all day, and it performed admirably. I still need to replace the prop.. just from wear, but I will be sticking with the current size and pitch.
Thanks to all who put up with my hardheadedness.
 

191Seanymphstriper

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 23, 2010
Messages
265
Re: Proper Prop Pitch

Ok here it goes. I have a 19ft 191 seanymph striper cc deep V aluminum boat and i to have a 90hp mariner on it. I learned this the hard way. When I purchased the boat the tach was not working correctly. It had the same size pitch your boat has. It would over rev and do about 24 mph. I then bought a brnd new 13 1/2 17P ss stainless prop 15 spline prop for the 90hp mariner. Put it on. Installed a tach. Ok she would rev up to 5900 rpm and do 36mph. My motor is a 1989 so they say it should be between 5K and 5500 rpm. So I was over reving because of the size and wieght of my boat a little. So I purchased a 13x19 stainless steel prop brand new. i was asured this was the right prop. Well it toped out at 5K rpm and did 39mph but I felt It was working to hard to spin that prop at WOT. I wanted the sweet spot 5500 rpm at WOT.... So I went onto this website http://www.mercurymarine.com/propellers/prop-selector/

Put in all these rpm's and speeds etc.... And it told me I needed a 13x18P prop So I got a new 13x18P ss prop...... The boat did 5500 RPM WOT and hit 42mph


So it was a expensive lesson. And now im stuck with 2 brand new stainless steel props ! Hope this helped... If the prop selecter tells you that you need a prop with the sizes that I don't need then shoot me a PM with your name and number and Ill send you out a prop if you need 1... Hope this helped you! And I think your prop is way off!
 
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