Pro-terrorist, Pro-abortion, Pro-bad stuff

[dogsdad]

Re: Pro-terrorist, Pro-abortion, Pro-bad stuff

Amendment IV<br /><br />The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. <br /><br />Key word: unreasonable<br /><br />I am aware that it's not as simple as referring to a document of a couple dozen pages, but I would suggest that when things get as complicated as they have become, some kind of rollback is needed.<br /><br />The Supremme Court has reversed its own decisions in the past. It will do so again.<br /><br />You are of the opinion that abortion is okay, and I would assume, based on your argument, that it is because the Supreme Court has said it is okay. I am of the opinion that abortion is wrong because it destroys human life. I say that you are wrong, and the Roe decision was wrong.<br /><br />Hopefully the activist courts' decisions will be done away with.

 

[JB]

Re: Pro-terrorist, Pro-abortion, Pro-bad stuff

I used to believe that if the two sides and the many who are between could agree on when an embryo becomes a person they might agree that terminations prior to personage would be tolerable and after personage not.<br /><br />But the passions have become so strong and the rage so far beyond reason that I don't believe that any more.<br /><br />My fear is that if any and all terminations of pregnancy were declared illegal we would return to the black market abortion industry of the past with the lives of so many women and girls placed in the hands of ill trained, ill equipped charlatans. Many died then, and many would die again.

 

[badandy]

Re: Pro-terrorist, Pro-abortion, Pro-bad stuff

Originally posted by txswinner:<br /> Being against illegal wiretappin does not make one Pro-terrorist.<br /><br />Being for giving a women a choice to medical abortion rather than back room abortion does not make one Pro-abortion.<br /><br />Being for getting the troops back home does not make one a anti-American or anti-troops.<br /><br />I know no one who supports the terrorist, or anyone that likes and supports abortions, or anyone that really wants our troops being killed and all of these folks are good Americans.

Tx you make some good points here.<br />The first one I feel unqualified to coment on because I dont understand what is going on in this arena.<br />The second it only angers me the way both sides of the political fence use this as a weapon I personaly say abortion is a decision every one needs to make on their own with the only major concern being at what point does a fetus become a human? Late term abortions in my eyes definatly bad to close to murder.<br />Your final point while no one wants to see our troops hurt the public do not have the information to make this determination. It is known our media can not be relied apon to tell a strait story. comon you turn the chanel and see the same set of facts from two totaly diferent veiw points telling two different stories can you trust these people not to taint our news. I can say what the news shows and what I experianced over in Iraq are two different things. Then again the building of a country's infrastructure is not as exciting as road side bombs. Nor are excited citizens gaining fredom compared to insurgents threatening Americans. Undertand what the troops fight for before you pull them and make sure they want to give up all they have worked so hard for? The troops are being the best americans they can be and don't wnat to be told what they are doing makes them anything different.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Pro-terrorist, Pro-abortion, Pro-bad stuff

JB<br /> I fear your correct.<br /> both sides have become so rabid they believe killing is accetable to enforce their beliefs.<br />it should be left more to the medical profession and less to the religous and political sides.<br />had you asked me at age 18 not only would I have had the answer I would have fought about it,<br /> at 45 I am starting to question the question.<br /><br /> badandy<br /> first let me shake your hand, vet to vet.<br /> I was in during the first unpleasentness in Iraq.<br />my biggest beef is with the chickenhawks that cooked up this fiasco.<br /> they fired all the competent military planners due to they were politically incorrect yet now we see tactically correct.<br /> however its not like we have nor had a choice.<br /> when the orders come we move.<br /> most folks that have never served dont understand how much of our constitutional rights we signed away.<br /><br /> JB <br /> so whats the solution? will either rabid side ever comprimise? should they ?

 

[dogsdad]

Re: Pro-terrorist, Pro-abortion, Pro-bad stuff

Originally posted by rodbolt:<br /> JB<br /> I fear your correct.<br /> both sides have become so rabid they believe killing is accetable to enforce their beliefs.<br />

I don't know who the **** you think you are, rodbolt, but I think you should speak for yourself, and yourself only. And I am taking up for both sides of the issue here.

 

[SwampNut]

Re: Pro-terrorist, Pro-abortion, Pro-bad stuff

You are of the opinion that abortion is okay, and I would assume, based on your argument, that it is because the Supreme Court has said it is okay.

I am of the opinion that a woman makes a decision about is done with her own body, and if shared with her doctor, is nobody's business but theirs. It has nothing to do with a Supreme Court decision; it is a basic right that has always been and always will be.<br /><br />I am against abortion. I don't think it's "OK."

 

[dogsdad]

Re: Pro-terrorist, Pro-abortion, Pro-bad stuff

If I believed there were only two people involved, I would see nothing wrong with it. If you do not think it's okay, then you must think---what? That there is another human being involved? Why do you say you think that it is not okay?

 

[SwampNut]

Re: Pro-terrorist, Pro-abortion, Pro-bad stuff

Because I would prefer that no woman need to go through it. It's not pleasant. Because it would be great if every woman could be in the position to have a child. However, the reality is that not every one is ready, able, or willing.<br /><br />Principles are not to be bartered for my personal preferences. Interfering with her right to control her body and to inject government into the doctor-patient relationship is not only wrong, but leads to other consequences and loss of liberty.

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: Pro-terrorist, Pro-abortion, Pro-bad stuff

Well said, Swampnut

 

[dogsdad]

Re: Pro-terrorist, Pro-abortion, Pro-bad stuff

What about the third person involved---the one who dies?

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: Pro-terrorist, Pro-abortion, Pro-bad stuff

Potential person?

 

[JB]

Re: Pro-terrorist, Pro-abortion, Pro-bad stuff

I don't have any idea how to go about it, Rodbolt, but I think we all need a legal definition of when a life begins.<br /><br />At fertilization? Upon beginning of heartbeat? With onset of self awareness (how would you determine that?)? Upon reaching 50% probability of viability? (This is a big issue with Daughter#1, who is a NICU Nurse Practitioner. She says the term for 50% is growing shorter with every advance in her field.) <br /><br />If we could get that, there may be a possibility of compromise definition of "ending a life". Then the term, "abortion" could go back to medicine, where it belongs.<br /><br />Former DIL was carrying a child found to be spina bifida and profoundly deformed at end of second trimester. Almost no chance for survival. I have no problem with her termination of the pregnancy. I would have objected to termination of a fetus that was presumed to be viable at that time.<br /><br />For purposes of forming my opinions, I currently believe that a fetus becomes a person at the onset of self awareness, the beginning of consciousness, but I have no basis for deciding when that happens.<br /><br />Bad salesmen try to make their case by badmouthing their competition. Bad politicians try to make their case by attacking their opposition. Bad activists try to make their case by demonizing those who don't agree with them.<br /><br />I've heard a lot about what people here are against. Let's hear what you are for.

 

[dogsdad]

Re: Pro-terrorist, Pro-abortion, Pro-bad stuff

JK, I know a lot of potential persons.<br /><br />

 

[dogsdad]

Re: Pro-terrorist, Pro-abortion, Pro-bad stuff

Ooops. Doubled up...again.

 

[jtexas]

Re: Pro-terrorist, Pro-abortion, Pro-bad stuff

A human female at birth has around 400,000 "potential persons" inside her body. From her early teens to late forties/early fifties, she makes a monthly decision concerning one of these "potential persons." Men of course have a limitless supply of genetic material, and far more opportunities to waste it.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Pro-terrorist, Pro-abortion, Pro-bad stuff

Originally posted by txswinner:<br /> <br />Being for giving a women a choice to medical abortion rather than back room abortion does not make one Pro-abortion.<br /><br />

Hmmmmmmm? Isn't that kinda like 'I voted for it before I voted against it? <br /><br />Seems to be a common thread with liberal logic.

 

[txswinner]

Re: Pro-terrorist, Pro-abortion, Pro-bad stuff

Up pops that ole Liberal label. You know like George Washington, Ben Franlin, Paul Revere and all those guys. I will take it as a compliment, they believed in the people running the country not the government running the people.

 

[heycods]

Re: Pro-terrorist, Pro-abortion, Pro-bad stuff

I guess we can go to the Ted Kenedy method of birth control. Ten ft. of water.<br /><br /><br />stir the pot a mite for you TX.

 

[Kalian]

Re: Pro-terrorist, Pro-abortion, Pro-bad stuff

Originally posted by SwampNut:<br /> <br />Principles are not to be bartered for my personal preferences. Interfering with her right to control her body and to inject government into the doctor-patient relationship is not only wrong, but leads to other consequences and loss of liberty.

I'll never see it as simply an isue of "the right to control her own body." It's much more than that. It makes the whole abortion thing so much more complicated. Your hiding the real isues behind that. <br /> The govt. is already injected in the Dr./patient relationship. Dr. assisted suicide, as well as any child abuse is a good example.<br /> And the siamese twin thing. In some cases it is closer to a host/parasite situation than symbionic. In a symbionic relationship the 2 have to benefit from each other.<br /> When you start getting technical about it it takes away from the personal issue. Life is precious, and shouldn't be dealt lightly with. I feel bad thinking about the women who may lose their life to ilegal abortions should abortion be baned, but I wonder how significant that scenario is. It was a completely different social environment back then when abortion was ilegal. Being unmaried and pregnant or having a kid out of wedlock,(I bet most kids don't even know or care what that term means nowadays.) was considered a social crime, was a big taboo. A lot of the illegal abortions were conducted to keep the social image, not for convience type purposes. I doubt that the # of ilegal abortions would be that high these days, it's a different world. Having a child before you're married is no longer a social crime. Heck, some parents are even taking their jr high and high school aged daughters to clinics to get birth control. That being said, I do recognize that as repurcusion to banning abortion. But the # of people who loose their life to it would be a small price to pay for the # of people,(babies) saved.<br /> I agree that it would help in the debate to set a definite "begining of life" definition. But my personal oppinion is that it would be hypocritical to set it at anything but the time of fertilization. Lets be realistic here. We all know what the fetus is going to turn into, does it matter if you terminate it before or after a particular stage in it's life? I know I'll take heat for that, but let it rip!<br /> And JTexas, of course you realize you are talking about unfertilized eggs.<br /><br />Edit, I used the example of parents getting birth control for their kids to ilustrate the more relaxed attitude of society to premarital sex. I didn't do a very good job of making my point.

 

[txswinner]

Re: Pro-terrorist, Pro-abortion, Pro-bad stuff

wow, alot there to digest. My problem with make abortions illegal is I grew up in the era where wealthy girls went off to school and working class girls ended up in the back bedroom of an LVN in towns home.