Please help, need some advice, small deck repair.

[Coyote23]

I'll try to make this quick and concise as to not waste everyone's time, two comments first:

1. Yes, I'm brand new to this and don't know what I'm doing, except for what I've read on this forum
2. I know that some of you will want to steer me in the direction of ripping the entire floor out and doing a restore. I will not consider this because I have not spent much money on the boat, and need it to just "work fine" (not perfect) for a few years (not forever).

I have a small (less than 1 ft. square) soft spot in my deck. (1982 Procraft 16 ft. boat) The rest of the floor is rock solid. I have chopped a portion of the soft part out, big enough to get my hand and flashlight in. What I found is:
1. The stringers are solid.
2. Everything is bone dry (including the foam), the plywood is dry and "flaky" in that spot.

Based on my reading, here is my picture of what needs to be done, correct me if I'm wrong on the steps or the order of them:
1. I need to cut out a sqare of plywood, just beyond the soft part.
2. I need to cut a new square of plywood, coat the bottom of it with some resin, poly, epoxy, etc., whatever I decide to use, and install it.
3. I need to install fiberglass mesh on TOP of the plywood, and then coat the top with the same resin stuff.

If these steps are correct and I'm not missing anything, here are my main questions:

1. Should I used treated plywood? Would it hurt?
2. How should I attach the plywood, glue it to the stringers or can I screw it to them?
3. How wide are stringers usually, so I know how to cut the square. Is it usually a 2x10 or something (1 1/2 inches wide)? (I can only see one side, if I cut too far, there's no going back) Should I be safe and assume 3/4 inch is center?
Should I overlap the fiberglass mesh, if so, how much? Does it get fastened in any other way besides the resin?
4. Anything special around the seam of new/old plywood, like caulk? Or does the mesh / resin do the trick?
5. Anything else I need to know, being that I just made a fool of myself?

Thank you very much in advance for your time!!!

 

[Coyote23]

Re: Please help, need some advice, small deck repair.

Sorry, I guess that wasn't very quick, lets hope it's concise. :facepalm:

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Please help, need some advice, small deck repair.

I think you basically have your bases covered.

You just need to have something to screw to on all for edges of your new scab in section.

If you need to screw in a 'cleat' or two ( a strip of ply about 3" wide ) on the underside of the deck so you can screw your new piece in .. then do it.

Resin coat the cleats and glass over the top of the piece just as you described.

Hope this helps ..

YD.

 

[jigngrub]

Re: Please help, need some advice, small deck repair.

I'll try to make this quick and concise as to not waste everyone's time, two comments first:

1. Yes, I'm brand new to this and don't know what I'm doing, except for what I've read on this forum
2. I know that some of you will want to steer me in the direction of ripping the entire floor out and doing a restore. I will not consider this because I have not spent much money on the boat, and need it to just "work fine" (not perfect) for a few years (not forever).

I have a small (less than 1 ft. square) soft spot in my deck. (1982 Procraft 16 ft. boat)

Why even bother to fix it at all then? It'll "work fine" with the soft spot!

How do you know your stringers are good?... have you core sampled them?

Have you core sampled the foam?

Have you core sampled the transom?


Why bother to do a job right when you can haf-way do it eh!?


You can go ahead and put as many band-aids on your boat as you want, it your boat.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Please help, need some advice, small deck repair.

Why bother to do a job right when you can haf-way do it eh!?


You can go ahead and put as many band-aids on your boat as you want, it your boat.

Sometimes a soft spot in the deck Can be repaired without having to do a rebuild.

Coyote did say that he is interested in just fixing the soft spot only.

YD.

 

[jigngrub]

Re: Please help, need some advice, small deck repair.

Sometimes a soft spot in the deck Can be repaired without having to do a rebuild...Yep! All ya have to do is throw down a 2' square piece of plywood on top of the existing deck to cover up the less than 1' square soft spot and... PRESTO! The soft spot is fixed, and will hold a lot longer than a "cleat and scab" job.

Coyote did say that he is interested in just fixing the soft spot only... ... and you and I both know this forum doesn't condone band-aid fixes.

YD.

A 30 yr. old boat with just a little soft spot in the deck... oh heck yeah! That's all that's wrong with it!

Yes, we know Yote didn't give much money for his boat... and we know why, 30 yr. old rotten boats aren't worth much money.


I will suggest to remove all of the existing decking and check the entire stringers and foam, if all is good put down new decking and glass it in without any worries.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Please help, need some advice, small deck repair.

without any worries.

Mate .. will you please edit your above post .. I did NOT say such things and you kinda Misquoted me up there ..

I sure hope it was not intentional ..

YD.

PS. Or I will.

 

[Coyote23]

Re: Please help, need some advice, small deck repair.

Yacht Dr., I did a double take at those quotes too, but I think his letters in bold print are his responses to what you wrote. He should have taken them out of the quote....

Thanks anyway for the help, I didn't mean to start an argument.... The simple fact is, for what a total rebuild would cost, I could just go buy another boat. The only things I need this boat to do are:

1. Float
2. Stay dry in the bilge (no leaks)
3. Have a deck that will support me and a couple others, without breaking through!

No, I have not core sampled anything, I may still end up doing a little more testing, but as I mentioned, everything else seems very solid so far.
My mind is made up that I'm doing the repair, so I just want to make sure that I'm doing it as correctly as possible. Any other thoughts?

 

[jigngrub]

Re: Please help, need some advice, small deck repair.

The simple fact is, for what a total rebuild would cost, I could just go buy another boat. The only things I need this boat to do are:

1. Float
2. Stay dry in the bilge (no leaks)
3. Have a deck that will support me and a couple others, without breaking through!

No, I have not core sampled anything, I may still end up doing a little more testing, but as I mentioned, everything else seems very solid so far.
My mind is made up that I'm doing the repair, so I just want to make sure that I'm doing it as correctly as possible. Any other thoughts?

If you took the amount of money it'll cost to fix/restore your boat and bought another boat, you'd be buying more of the same. There are people that pay thousands of dollars for a boat only to find out it has rot. To find a boat in the price range of your repair, you'll be looking a very long time... maybe forever.

This is what happens to old fiberglass boats that're operated in a rotten condition:

If it happens while out on the water your boat will take on lots of water...FAST! If your floatation foam is waterlogged your boat will sink. The damage to the boat in the first pic happened while out on the water and they barely go back to the ramp and got the boat back on the trailer before the boat would've sunk. The second pic happened on dry land or it would've been worse.

The soft spot in your deck is the "drain" to your bilge for all the water that has entered your boat, the damage may not be apparent directly under the soft spot because the water has more than like gravitated to the aft section of your bilge, this is where 90% of old fiberglass boats have the most rot. Waterlogged foam, rotten stringers, and rotten transom.

I'm not trying to bad-mouth your boat, I' sure it was a fine boat when it was new... but it has been neglected and is more than likely in need of some much needed repair to make it seaworthy again.

Just remember, any day on the water is a good day... unless your boat sinks!

This old fiberglass boat sunk just because the plug was left out:
http://forums.iboats.com/stupid-hum.../sold-my-old-boat-now-its-bit-wet-584575.html
The only thing that kept it from sinking deeper was the outboard skeg was on the bottom of the lake in shallow water.

There have been other horror stories on this site about boats sinking too.

 

[Coyote23]

Re: Please help, need some advice, small deck repair.

I appreciate the warning, and will be careful. From what I can tell, the transom looks good. But if I take a core sample, and it ends up being good, won't I have a hole in it for water to get in? Now I have to patch that hole. I think I'd rather take my chances there....
I also ran water through the bilge and it came through clear and clean. Stuck my head into the ski locker and no smell. It really seems like this rot is limited to this one spot, which was under a seat.

My theory is that the piece of plywood of the seat that was laying flat on the deck and screwed down, held water in that spot, water entering the plywood deck through the screw holes. This water did not leak in through the bilge, it was water from swimmers entering, or maybe rain if it wasn't covered. Although the previous owner for 15 years SAYS he always kept it covered.

Is this a good theory?

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Please help, need some advice, small deck repair.

Without looking at it it's hard to tell why it rotted in that location, but your idea may be correct. It may just be that one soft area that needs to be repaired, but it's more common to have rotten wood elsewhere too, so look around carefully.
Was the existing floor coated on the bottom side with fiberglass....or anything?

 

[Coyote23]

Re: Please help, need some advice, small deck repair.

Was the existing floor coated on the bottom side with fiberglass....or anything?

Yes, in places where it's still solid it looks like it has a yellowish-clear coat of something on it underneath, resin I'm guessing. But no fiberglass mesh.

Anyone have answers to questions 1-4 in my first post?

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Please help, need some advice, small deck repair.

1. Should I use treated plywood? Would it hurt?
Treated plywood can be used, but the stuff you buy at the local store is wet, then when dried it tends to warp. You can buy KD treated, but for a small piece it doesn’t make sense.

2. How should I attach the plywood, glue it to the stringers or can I screw it to them?
Screws and glue if possible, and like YD said, attach some supporting wood in place first.

3. How wide are stringers usually, so I know how to cut the square. Is it usually a 2x10 or something (1 1/2 inches wide)? (I can only see one side, if I cut too far, there's no going back) Should I be safe and assume 3/4 inch is center?
No way to know what they used if you can only see one side, it could be a 1”x, 2”x, or plywood.

4. Anything special around the seam of new/old plywood, like caulk? Or does the mesh / resin do the trick?
You can use caulk.

5. Anything else I need to know, being that I just made a fool of myself?
Yes, start reading other posts on the same subject, just about every question you have will be answered and you will most likely see pics of the repair too. You will then have questions more specific to your project.

 

[jigngrub]

Re: Please help, need some advice, small deck repair.

But if I take a core sample, and it ends up being good, won't I have a hole in it for water to get in? Now I have to patch that hole.

There's nothing to patching core sample holes, squirt some 3M 5200 marine sealant in the hole and smooth it over flush with a putty knife.

Transom and stringer core samples should be drilled down low and the shavings evaluated, if the wood inside comes out light colored and dry the wood is good and the hole should be patched as described above. If the core sample comes out dark and damp/wet you don't have to worry about patching the hole because the wood is rotten and needs to be removed.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Please help, need some advice, small deck repair.

There's nothing to patching core sample holes, squirt some 3M 5200 marine sealant in the hole and smooth it over flush with a putty knife.

Transom and stringer core samples should be drilled down low and the shavings evaluated, if the wood inside comes out light colored and dry the wood is good and the hole should be patched as described above. If the core sample comes out dark and damp/wet you don't have to worry about patching the hole because the wood is rotten and needs to be removed.

Um.. there is a difference between Core Samples and Probing samples right .. ?

Core samples are to inspect the Core of the lam+wood+integrity of All lams together at a location ( normally done with a hole saw) .. Probe samples are for inspecting suspect areas that Might be needed for core samples.

Core cuts need to be Fiberglassed .. Probe samples should be filled ( some use 5200 .. some use actual Glass filler )..

But Im not a surveyor .. So I could be wrong ..

YD.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Please help, need some advice, small deck repair.

Ya know...YD is correct about the actual definition of a core sample. We have been referencing this incorrectly for a long time. I'm prolly one of the worst culprits. A core sample IS to show the various layers/strata of the core and their makeup and condition. When Drilling the wood we actually in fact ARE doing Probe samples to detect wetness and some damage. Having said all this...the fact remains that IF the Probe Samples reveal damp wet wood with discoloration, the wood will need to be replaced. The timing of this replacement is still in question, but it WILL need to occur at some point in time. Taking safety into account I always recommend replacing the wood sooner than later.

 

[jigngrub]

Re: Please help, need some advice, small deck repair.

Um.. there is a difference between Core Samples and Probing samples right .. ?

Yeah, I know what a core sample is, and I know what a probing is.

A probe won't bring any material out, it will be an instrument to test the density of the material. You'll probe a transom or stringer with a sharp object to see if the wood is solid or soft.

I do realize that core sample wasn't the proper term, but that's what everybody calls it here.

Drilling a hole in a stringer or transom to examine the material is actually just a sampling... or better yet, a biopsy to check for wood cancer.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Please help, need some advice, small deck repair.

Yeah, I know what a core sample is, and I know what a probing is.

A probe won't bring any material out, it will be an instrument to test the density of the material. You'll probe a transom or stringer with a sharp object to see if the wood is solid or soft.

You dont know what your talking about .. a probe test is not an electronic test. Its not a test with someone going around with an Ice Picker ..

I do realize that core sample wasn't the proper term, but that's what everybody calls it here.

Well then Identify what Your talking about .. if you have to spell it out in type then due so to reconcile your aspect of vocabulary ..

Drilling a hole in a stringer or transom to examine the material is actually just a sampling... or better yet, a biopsy to check for wood cancer.

Again .. this is so wrong .. drilling is to find out Where the Cancer stopped.

Its not hard to find a trans or stringer thats been rotting out for years .. its where we could possibly Stop and then intrigate a repair.

Thats where the Core Sampling comes in.

But hey .. you probably know this by now..

YD.

 

[jigngrub]

Re: Please help, need some advice, small deck repair.

Again .. this is so wrong .. drilling is to find out Where the Cancer stopped.

Its not hard to find a trans or stringer thats been rotting out for years .. its where we could possibly Stop and then intrigate a repair.

Thats where the Core Sampling comes in.

But hey .. you probably know this by now..

YD.

Well I'll tell ya... if the inside of a boat was so rotten that I didn't need to do sample drilling to find the rot, I sure wouldn't need to start drilling to find out where the rot stopped... everything would be removed and replaced on a boat that rotten.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Please help, need some advice, small deck repair.

Ok ..