Please help Figure this one out,your a hero

[Joe Reeves]

Re: Please help Figure this one out,your a hero

Joe, are you suggesting the op should buy another "car", or that his "car" may have an exhaust leak under the bonnet??

What... me suggest something of such a nature to imply a impropriety to that extent? Why, surely you jest! I was simply extending to my fellow man a saying, a story of a mechanical nature that popped into my head that had apparently been laying there dormant for sixty or seventy years. I sincerely hope it was enjoyed.

I cannot imagine how such a thought could have crossed your mind. For me to insinuate that perhaps this young man may not even have an engine, or perhaps even has the engine's problem corrected due to the many detailed on target replies and rather than to say so would rather continue on, yanking our chain so to speak, as a BS artist or perhaps because he is so lonely and requires an audience to continue his existence... I feel that many of you know that this would be beneath me. For any of you to think I would lower myself to that degree is a mystery to me.

On an off note perhaps.... I have noticed that quite a few highly knowledgeable technicians that have offered excellent advice in the early portions of this thread... are no longer popping in with further advice. I can't help but wonder if possibly they are unable to cope with this unexplained phenomenon of a engine failure due to their limited knowledge as must be my case also......

Or is there another reason?

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Please help Figure this one out,your a hero

Thank you for the encouragment,i needed that but i know these guys mean well and are only trying to help.

There aren?t many things more frustrating than spending time in a thread...trying to help...and having a continuous flow of changing stories and ignored advice.
There are PMs flying around (almost a "parallel thread") discussing whether this entire mess is just a few frat boys having a giggle.

Here's what happens when an OP is really serious about getting his problem solved....he posts, he reads the replies, pays attention, responds with accurate info, and with some added effort and some luck...the problem gets solved.
http://forums.iboats.com/johnson-evinrude-outboards/9-9-evinrude-wont-go-over-3000-rpm-601175.html

His problem was a pretty sneaky one....but it was fewer than 70 posts....we are well over 130 here, and the biggest issue now is that most of the earlier posters have thrown up their hands and are just watching out of curiosity, if at all.
Most new posters aren't reading the entire thread, and we are just seeing repeats of suggestions that have been made several times.....although we don't really know whether the OP has acted on most of them.
Spinning our collective wheels so to speak.

The fitting on the tank is OMC.

Good example.
Early on you posted that you bought this fitting at Academy Sports....NOT an OMC dealer.
This is NOT then an OMC fitting.
If you have changed this out to an OEM part from an OMC dealer since then, you have not bothered to add it to the post, even though the OEM vs aftermarket mix has been a significant discussion. Aftermarket fittings are probably OK if you use the same brand throughout....mixing is just a bad idea.
Originally, this may just have been a worn o-ring in a Q/D fitting...with the uncontrolled R&R activity we'll likely never know.

I have let the tank build pressure and loosened the air vent off and it did work. Thank you.

How exactly did you "let the tank build pressure"?
And what worked?
Problem solved then?
.....didn't think so. :facepalm:

I have let the tank build pressure

That statement just has me shaking my head and wondering why I am still watching this.
If you sit the tank in the sun with the vent closed....it will build pressure.
If you close the vent and run the engine....it will build a vacuum.
You don't want to do either.

My final suggestions in this thread....
1) Ask the mods to lock this one up.
2) Start a new thread that begins with the statement....?I appear to have a problem between my fuel pump and the gas tank....?
3) Include in the OP a list of all fittings and connections that are in the system at present, and include the manufacturer?s name and where purchased. If you are no longer sure, state that.
4) Detail any tests done on fuel pump outlet , with a pressure gauge....or on inlet, with a vacuum gauge.

See you all on the other side....maybe.

 

[boobie]

Re: Please help Figure this one out,your a hero

Edit.........

 

[jbeener1]

Re: Please help Figure this one out,your a hero

What i have done over the weekend,filled a bottle with fuel,bypassed the fuel pump and went straight into the carb. The motor ran great time after time so i assume carb is fine. I have used 3 diff. gas tanks in the past and yes i know with diff. fittings and hose but as i stated in previous post that all that has been changed over to OMC(hose and fittings)..Sorry guys no fratt boys here.. I will hook the bottle straight into the fuel pump on Monday,lets hope thats its the fuel pump..

 

[jbeener1]

Re: Please help Figure this one out,your a hero

There aren’t many things more frustrating than spending time in a thread...trying to help...and having a continuous flow of changing stories and ignored advice.
There are PMs flying around (almost a "parallel thread") discussing whether this entire mess is just a few frat boys having a giggle.

Here's what happens when an OP is really serious about getting his problem solved....he posts, he reads the replies, pays attention, responds with accurate info, and with some added effort and some luck...the problem gets solved.
http://forums.iboats.com/johnson-evinrude-outboards/9-9-evinrude-wont-go-over-3000-rpm-601175.html

His problem was a pretty sneaky one....but it was fewer than 70 posts....we are well over 130 here, and the biggest issue now is that most of the earlier posters have thrown up their hands and are just watching out of curiosity, if at all.
Most new posters aren't reading the entire thread, and we are just seeing repeats of suggestions that have been made several times.....although we don't really know whether the OP has acted on most of them.
Spinning our collective wheels so to speak.


Good example.
Early on you posted that you bought this fitting at Academy Sports....NOT an OMC dealer.
This is NOT then an OMC fitting.
If you have changed this out to an OEM part from an OMC dealer since then, you have not bothered to add it to the post, even though the OEM vs aftermarket mix has been a significant discussion. Aftermarket fittings are probably OK if you use the same brand throughout....mixing is just a bad idea.
Originally, this may just have been a worn o-ring in a Q/D fitting...with the uncontrolled R&R activity we'll likely never know.



How exactly did you "let the tank build pressure"?
And what worked?
Problem solved then?
.....didn't think so. :facepalm:


That statement just has me shaking my head and wondering why I am still watching this.
If you sit the tank in the sun with the vent closed....it will build pressure.
If you close the vent and run the engine....it will build a vacuum.
You don't want to do either.

My final suggestions in this thread....
1) Ask the mods to lock this one up.
2) Start a new thread that begins with the statement....”I appear to have a problem between my fuel pump and the gas tank....”
3) Include in the OP a list of all fittings and connections that are in the system at present, and include the manufacturer’s name and where purchased. If you are no longer sure, state that.
4) Detail any tests done on fuel pump outlet , with a pressure gauge....or on inlet, with a vacuum gauge.

See you all on the other side....maybe.

I let the tank build pressure by closeing the vent cap and setting in the sun,i did not run the motor with the vent cap closed,i opened it back up before running it. The fuel pump outlet has not been tested yet,im waiting on a tester,i did the vaccum test on fuel line hooked to it and the fuel pump and as stated it was 2-3 on the vaccum.All my hoses,bulb and fitting came from an Evinrude Dealer and say Johnson/Evinrude on the package. The Dealer is Barling Boat Sales in Ft.Smith,AR......

 

[nwcove]

Re: Please help Figure this one out,your a hero

now youre on track jbeener!! systematic trouble shooting, rather than heading in multiple directions is the way to go. if you do hook the bottle up to the suction side of the pump, make sure to see what it does with the bottle above the carb as compared to below.

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Please help Figure this one out,your a hero

I let the tank build pressure by closeing the vent cap and setting in the sun,i did not run the motor with the vent cap closed,i opened it back up before running it. The fuel pump outlet has not been tested yet,im waiting on a tester,i did the vaccum test on fuel line hooked to it and the fuel pump and as stated it was 2-3 on the vaccum.All my hoses,bulb and fitting came from an Evinrude Dealer and say Johnson/Evinrude on the package. The Dealer is Barling Boat Sales in Ft.Smith,AR......

2-3 what? What gauge? what units?.... what was the point?
Read this:
http://forums.iboats.com/mercruiser-i-o-inboard-engines-outdrives/fuel-pump-vacuum-test-559057.html

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Please help Figure this one out,your a hero

.....and this.

http://forums.iboats.com/engine-fre...ow-testing-your-boats-fuel-system-283363.html

 

[jbeener1]

Re: Please help Figure this one out,your a hero

now youre on track jbeener!! systematic trouble shooting, rather than heading in multiple directions is the way to go. if you do hook the bottle up to the suction side of the pump, make sure to see what it does with the bottle above the carb as compared to below.

Will do,ty

 

[jbeener1]

Re: Please help Figure this one out,your a hero

2-3 what? What gauge? what units?.... what was the point?
Read this:
http://forums.iboats.com/mercruiser-i-o-inboard-engines-outdrives/fuel-pump-vacuum-test-559057.html

It was a vaccum gauge to see if there was an air leak between the fuel pump and tank,on the vaccum gauge it was showing a .02-.03Hg which im thinking was what the fuel pump is pulling. I will read the forums thanks

 

[boobie]

Re: Please help Figure this one out,your a hero

This post gets more interesting every day.

 

[jbeener1]

Re: Please help Figure this one out,your a hero

This post gets more interesting every day.

Yes it does but i hope im on the right track now,i know this thread has been a pain do to my part and for that i appologize to each one,i have learned alot from people on here and i say THANK YOU ALL for the help. I know some quite the thread and i do understand..

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Please help Figure this one out,your a hero

It was a vaccum gauge to see if there was an air leak between the fuel pump and tank,on the vaccum gauge it was showing a .02-.03Hg which im thinking was what the fuel pump is pulling. I will read the forums thanks

So, the result of your test and those numbers tell you exactly what?

I would be ....how can I phrase this gently?....somewhat suspicious of the readings that you took. You stated them first as

2-3

....now they are

.02-.03

....that is a factor of 100x different. :facepalm:

Sounds like you have a significant suction loss.

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: Please help Figure this one out,your a hero

Build wood stool with base higher than engine. Nail stool to deck, strap fuel tank to top of stool. Attach fuel line directly to carburetor. Fuel will now be gravity fed to engine. Possibility of problem to exist any longer is now impossible.

 

[jbeener1]

Re: Please help Figure this one out,your a hero

So, the result of your test and those numbers tell you exactly what?

I would be ....how can I phrase this gently?....somewhat suspicious of the readings that you took. You stated them first as ....now they are ....that is a factor of 100x different. :facepalm:

Sounds like you have a significant suction loss.

Ran the motor again this morning with the vaccum gauge on at WOT,after reading the gauge again it is reading 2Hg.This is the second reading.The first reading after changing out the fuel lines to OMC which was done back several threads ago but this is the first time ive had to hook the gauge up sence then. The numbers tell me that accord to the thread that i have read that im ok on my vaccum,yes i know the lower the # the better.Start engine and allow it to reach normal operating temperature. Run engine at full throttle (NOTE: As noted above, this is done under a load, not on muffs, if you do this on muffs, or in neutral, or not on a dyno... you take the chance of over revving, having a runaway, or just plain blowing up your engine... and possibly yourself!!!) for at least 2 minutes; observe vacuum gauge reading and check clear hose for air or vapor bubbles. Gauge reading must not exceed 4 in. of mercury (Hg) at any time, and there should be no bubbles visible in the clear hose. Any suggestion on suction lose location? From the fuel pump back to the tank is all OMC parts.The fitting for the tank is new and has been checked for crack in the tube going down into the tank..Again tomorow i will hook the bottle up to the fuel pump and see what happens. Sorry only part of this is to be highlited

 

[Cofe]

Re: Please help Figure this one out,your a hero

LoL...
I see you are in Greenwood AR. Mind If i pay you a visit to look at your motor? That is if you want it fixed... Anyhow most of the helper/members here think this is a hoax thread due to the elaborate miscommunication, and elaborate, incoherent test results . I am a motor mechanic, and I do charge low rates. If you want it fixed pm me.

Maybe trade for a fishing trip there....

 

[jbeener1]

Re: Please help Figure this one out,your a hero

Ok i was able to run the motor again today,this time i hooked a bottle and fuel hose into the fuel pump,with the bottle a little above the fuel pump the motor ran great but with the bottle below the top of transam it started acting up again, i then raised the bottle back up above the motor and it started running fine,lower the bottle it would act up time after time. So this would tell me the fuel pump is not pulling what it is suppose to and at WOT it cant keep up carb. If i have time tomorow i will borrow a fuel pump test gauge and test the what pressure the pump is putting out just to make sure..

 

[jonjohnson]

Re: Please help Figure this one out,your a hero

Quoting Lieutenant Commander Cofe


"LoL...
I see you are in Greenwood AR. Mind If i pay you a visit to look at your motor? That is if you want it fixed... Anyhow most of the helper/members here think this is a hoax thread due to the elaborate miscommunication, and elaborate, incoherent test results . I am a motor mechanic, and I do charge low rates. If you want it fixed pm me.

Maybe trade for a fishing trip there"....



I say you take him up on this offer before he changes his mind, and for a fishing trip, what a deal!

 

[jbeener1]

Re: Please help Figure this one out,your a hero

The motor is finally fixed,it was the fuel pump,when i put on the OMC pump it runs great..

 

[1NewBoatGuy]

Re: Please help Figure this one out,your a hero

OK just spent the last 20 minutes reading through this thread.
I have to say, this was a good bit of entertainment. Motor dying surging at WOT is most likely a fuel problem. Joe seems to know his stuff and using his crazy troubleshooting methods seems to be not so crazy after all. Gravity feeding a motor seems like a very idea when troubleshooting. Wish I knew this a month ago when I had the same problem with a force motor.
one more reason to stick with OEM stuff.
I like it when people report there final solution. This definitely helps out everyone.

THANKS and good luck.