Photos inside - transom, flooring, etc..please - advice.

[sincraft]

Hey guys, I've posted a few pics in a previous topic and had some tell me to and not to inspect the transom and flooring...so today I was able to eck out a few hours on the boat, tore off the seats, bimini, tank, engine etc etc and started cutting as I felt it would be best to do at least some cutting to start inspecting.<br /><br />Immediately, I went to work on the draintube - it was covered in epoxy from the former owner YEARS ago and started to split horribly at the most bottom rear of the boat around the tube where his epoxy eventually failed.<br /><br />I cut into this using a dremel set to 1/8"th deep and found the below the drain tube wood was rotted, above it was wet...so I proceeded to cut more inspection holes (dont laugh when you see them) and found them all to be wet, but they were not spongy or rotted , and immediately dried up to a firm hard wood color. Does this mean I have to replace the transom (almost impossible with this boat because of the funky shelf on the back) or can I route out the entire gelcoat and initial layers of glass matting and rebuild it from that side without removing the transom? It REALLY seems solid to me.<br /><br />Keep in mind guys, this is just a fishing boat, and I am very tight on budget. I am NOT into total restoration projects and between work and other home projects - I can only muster about 10 hours per week to work on this.<br /><br />K here is the other issue - FLOORING. Many people believe my floor may be rotted. I reached in all the inspection ports in the floor and felt around underneath and felt nothing but fiberglass..in one spot I felt soft wood however in a small area. The floor is made up of wavey looping fiberglass that is actually molded to the floor, so I have NO idea how I would go about cutting the floor out even if I wanted to as I would have to somehow get underneath to cut layers and layers of roven woven from the floor to release it - then there is , what happens next? What would the floor lay on afterwards if I cut it away - I think the hole integrity is it's looping and connections to the floor. ARGH what should I do? <br />BUT there's a hitch! I reached down the sides (not front to back but from side to side) in between one of the 'waves' of roven woven that goes from floor to hull and back, and pulled out little 1" x 2" pieces of completely rotten wood. I AM THINKING that this was wood that fell into those inspection ports when I was tearing up a rotten plywood aftermarket storage box..but have no idea. <br />Question - how hard is it to repair a 'chunk' of floor say 12"x8" in the imddle of the floor - I do plan on painting it as all of the interior paint has started to flake off and is showing the fiberglass matting now. <br /><br />Ok guys - please take the time to answer as best as you can with all these issues if you feel you know the answer...here are some EH pictures of my issues...<br /><br />Thanks guys, I really appreciate it...I'd love to dive into this and work on this and get it working, but I am concerned mostly with saftey and durability rather than looks as it is just a giant green bathtub meant for some fishing <br /><br /> back with inspection holes (woodpecker attack!) <br /><br /> draintube before cut <br /> <br /><br />rotten drain tube <br /><br /> The boat inside - camera almost hit the water when i pulled it out HA <br /><br /> The boat - stripped of it's stuff...

 

[RubberFrog]

Re: Photos inside - transom, flooring, etc..please - advice.

How much is a new used hull?

 

[tengals123]

Re: Photos inside - transom, flooring, etc..please - advice.

mate, I have looked at those pics again and read your last thread plus this new one. I'm going to be totally honest with you. By the looks and sounds of everything, unless you rip the floor and transom your boat will still be no better off. I feel although your optimistic, your prolly grasping at straws. I'm not trying to be rude or deflate your experience with your boat, but looking at it, i'd have to say rebuild or throw. Not patch here and there. You have mentioned, rotted wood a few places and times, cracks, holes, wet...etc....these all add up to something. Ultimatly it's up to you what your going to do, it's a forum here and this is only MY opinion. Even if you were to patch that boat up, your transom and floor is wet, prolly been wet for years and although hard ATM, it will continue to rot in other places even after you have repaired the bad spots. Rot and wet creeps, so once it's been in there for a fair amount of time, there is no option but to rip the lot out.<br /><br />This is just my opinion.<br /><br />cheers

 

[sincraft]

Re: Photos inside - transom, flooring, etc..please - advice.

Well like I said, the floor does not appear to have any wood in it...it's too shallow to support and is only a few inches off of the hull floor. I've peaked in every spot possible, and found nothing. <br />My question was - if I cut out inspection areas, is it going to be difficult to repair if I plan on repainting anyway and what should be used if red/fiberglass is showing through (with epoxy coated over it of course)<br /><br />The transom is connected onto some quasi back shelf I dont normally see in other boats... When I see people removing their transom, they only seem to be removing a certain area like the definete middle, while mine seems to go from edge to edge...<br />Where does one even begin to cut? And if you leave say 3" to the outside that you dont cutout - what's the purpose as that would be wet also and you would have a big task to create a solid piece connected at the edges by wet old stuff.<br />I dont know how to explain it, but the stuff looks very solid. Looking around at 'wood rot' stories and products, there is VERY few places that recommend removing totally, they usually just say get it dry and then treat it...like I said, I could put the engine on the back and probably stand on it..and it wouldn't bow at all.<br /><br />Yes I mentioned cracks, holes, wet etc etc...but if oyu reread that, the cracks are from a baseball accident at the top of left of the transom, the holes were created by me, and the wet is where I point out.<br /><br />I talked to a few boat owners that owned and own old boats and they have NO idea what stringers, or transoms are...they just keep running their boats. I can't imagine that even 10% of the boating community ...especially when it comes to old boats, cares much about repairing what isn't broken.<br />I have taken it a step further to try to get this thing at least presentable and running well with safety in mind. I've seen probably 20 projects people post on here, and they are bettter BEFORE restoration that 90% of the boats on the water around here...so like I said, it's just a fishing boat.<br /><br />What I would enjoy is advice on how to remove a molded connected floor IF I DID decide to remove the entire floor and restore it 'properly'. I really wouldnt have a problem with it if it wasn't connected to the floor and hull using roven woven in a curtain like fashion. How in the heck do you remove it then?<br /><br />S

 

[AMD Rules]

Re: Photos inside - transom, flooring, etc..please - advice.

The other thing to keep in mind is where and how you plan on using the boat. Based on your previous posts, you have a 9.9hp motor and have described it as a fishing boat. Do you plan on using it in the open seas, or on a small lake, etc?<br /><br />Trolling around for minnows on a small fresh water lake with a soggy boat and a 9.9hp motor cannot be compared to pounding the surf offshore with a higher horsepower motor always trying to rip itself free of the transom. Or pulling skiers or wakeboarding etc.<br /><br />Does your boat have foam for floatation, and is it water logged?<br /><br />In the end you are the best judge as to the risk associated with how you use your own boat. Think safe, and err on the side of caution. Do what feels right to you. You've done the right thing by inspecting the boat cloely, in order that you can make a sound decision based on actual condition.<br /><br />[edit] I see you already answered some of the thoughts I had while I was typing my reply....slow typer I must be

 

[sincraft]

Re: Photos inside - transom, flooring, etc..please - advice.

The boat 'seems' to be as it was whence I purchased it. That said - who knows really as I didn't really pay attention to construction back then so I do notice some slight flexing on the floor - tonight however I had 3 adults walking around bouncing up and down on it and noone spoke while we listened for the CRAAACK sounds - nothing..not even a slight sound...<br /><br />NORMALLY I would have already had a case of beer in the live well and two rods dangling over the edge, however I plan to take a 9 year old on this boat and want to ensure its safety before doing so. It wasn't until I came on here that I actually thought that I should do something to ensure it was - otherwise, all seems ship shape...somewhat.<br /><br />To answer your question - I live near rivers, and a few lakes. The lakes have waves that can reach 2 feet high (which you know is nothing) and mostly it's from jet skis zooming by and barely rock the boat. When mobile, the boat tilts up nicely and does hit waves at a whopping 15 mph when going to and fro.<br />MOST of the time however, I will be on the river - a shallow trout/bass river with some musky and walley. <br /><br />What about the floor - if the floor is connected to the roven woven that is connected to the hull, how does one go about removing it? <br />What is the best resource to find out if the boat has wood in the boat other than in the transom, gunnels, bait well, and seats?<br /><br />Here is the original ad I found. It's the ONLY information I can find on my boat. It's a 1969 starcraft explorer tr-15.<br /><br /> Boat Ad

 

[sincraft]

Re: Photos inside - transom, flooring, etc..please - advice.

btw - maybe this will help me out also! What do you think it would cost to replace a 'normal' floor and transom on a boat like this? (see pics)<br /><br />What is the boat, engine (9.9 mercury), and trailer worth? If I disclose what I know to potential buyers, patch up some stuff..?<br /><br />Also - how does one know that the hull they are interested in, is in good shape?<br /><br /><br />PS - I dont see ANY floatation in the boat..it seems to be made only of fiberglass waves between the hull and the floor. What is below the thickest part (the 2nd part of the trihall) I dont know but I think I am seeing the absolute bottom, pretty sure at least..<br /><br />S<br /><br />S

 

[tengals123]

Re: Photos inside - transom, flooring, etc..please - advice.

dude, im only trying to help. I agree with AMD about where you plan on using the boat, if your not going more than 100yrds from shore that's fine you can use your 'soggy' boat until it falls apart on you in the water, then just swim ashore. Hey, i ran around in my boat with rot for a season or two and it did'nt fall apart. I hear you, I know where your comming from, i know you don't have the time or money. I guess if you think it's solid enough, it's good enough for you, that's fine. A boat really is not a toy, not respecting it can get you into a situation you'd die to get out of.<br />I don't mean to come off the wrong way.<br />cheers

 

[sincraft]

Re: Photos inside - transom, flooring, etc..please - advice.

hehe k , like I said - if I THINK it is not solid, how do I cut a hole in a molded floor and rip it from the roven woven to inspect to see if there IS foam or if there IS wood stringers????????? Is there a method or just a chop and pray method?<br /><br />I see many boats out there with MUCH larger engines for about 1.5k - 5k. Who knows what condition they are in and when you look at the ads, they usually come with some stipulations like (small damage here or engine needs tuned up) etc...so that said I dont want to get into something where i am back where i started and now have TWO boats that are useless hehe.<br /><br />I guess I will work on it and put money into it until I feel it's ready I will test the heck out of it before allowing passengers and will also have a spotter on shore.<br /><br />What do you think about me cutting that gelcoat and glass away to expose the wood to truly dry it out and then rotaway coat it then recover it?<br /><br />How much money do you think I will spend? I already have to replace all the rollers on the trailer, the seats need recovered, and the engine will need tuned up and the boat itself registered. <br /><br />Feelings, thoughts? I guess I just want to get it going enough to run it this year and POSSIBLY sell it next spring to 'upgrade'. <br /><br />Do marina's and boat yards have people that can tell you or use a little wire camera to see if the boat is stringer/foam or just molded glass throughout...IS there such a thing as ONLY molded glass throughout?<br /><br />Thanks again for the replies - trust me tengals, I know better than anyone that it is not a toy..per say... I am a overly cautious person most of the time. 100 yards from shore? try less than 100 feet hehe, its a small shallow river..and the lakes I venture on I doubt I will go past the 100 yard marker either as I hate boating with traffic..<br /><br />The last time I ran this boat, was for 12 hours straight in EXTREMELY bumpy water because there were a MILLION boaters flying all over the place while we fished and moved and fished and moved...we had to jump all of their waves.. I caught an 'almost' record northern pike that nearly bite my hand off hehe. My girlfriend at the time, caught a huge large mouth bass...in 12 hours, that's all we caught...mostly however I must admit..we just laid there in the sun. <br /><br />S

 

[JasonJ]

Re: Photos inside - transom, flooring, etc..please - advice.

With what you are doing, and the minimal amount of horsepower you are using, I suggest just letting the thing dry out, patch all the exterior issues, and run the thing. It will not fail. My rig was ran for what I believe to be years by the previous owner with a sheet of plywood nailed to what was left of the completely rotted floor and stringers. The transom was full of carpenter ants. This boat had a 125 horse motor on it, and it didn't fail, so I cannot even imagine you rig would fail. Just run it and keep an eye out for a sweet deal on a replacement hull, prefferably aluminum. Good luck...

 

[tengals123]

Re: Photos inside - transom, flooring, etc..please - advice.

i'm sure you'll be fine.<br /><br />Keep us posted.<br /><br /> <br />cheers

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Photos inside - transom, flooring, etc..please - advice.

If you can't find any wood in the floor, don't stress over it, there may not be any. Just do some repairs to the transom, dig out all the bad wood you can find, replace it with plywood and use epoxy or polyester resin and fiberglass to put it back together. <br />Don't spend much money on this hull, you should be able to find a hull in better shape than yours for less money than it would cost to fix it completely. <br /><br />Then go fishing and forget about it.<br /><br />Good luck

 

[sincraft]

Re: Photos inside - transom, flooring, etc..please - advice.

Wow, thanks for all the input guys. <br /><br />I think to be comfortable with things, instead of leaving that transom damp, I will cut the entire gelcoat and glass mat off to expose the wood and let it dry for a week. <br /><br />Any suggestions on what products to use to recreate the 'thickness' I would need to reach 1/8" inch approximately and to do it the best way?<br /><br />Here's what I planned (after full dry - taking a full depth sample to ensure wood dry on both sides) then:<br />-Rot inhibitor<br />-Poly<br />-Mat<br />-2x Poly<br />-Some sort of gelcoat or whatever (suggestions) tinted to 'somewhat' the same boat color..<br /><br />I will then also watch the inspection ports and carefully inspect the boat prior to and after use to look for any changes what-so-ever.<br /><br />I had a thought last night...how secure are those eyelets on the front of the boat that you attach to with your winch? <br /><br />My trailers rollers are CEMENT now. I have to replace them. The middle ones aren't TOO bad, but the side ones are literally cement. I think I am just going to replace them with a carpet bar and possibly create a sidebar for the side of the boat...I dont like the sides not being supported onto the trailer. <br /><br />Ok - back to work unfortunately Hopefully I'll get a few hours to work on it during the weekd this week! <br /><br />S

 

[SuzukiChopper]

Re: Photos inside - transom, flooring, etc..please - advice.

If you're going to cut all the gel coat and glass away from the outside to let the wood dry, you may be able to completely replace the transom from the outside. You're going to have to reglass the whole thing anyways to put it back together, so you may be able to spend a few extra hours on it and remove the old and replace with new. Just a thought.

 

[sincraft]

Re: Photos inside - transom, flooring, etc..please - advice.

Suzuki – Funny you mentioned that. When I articulated my thoughts onto my father when I went to visit them this weekend, he mentioned that maybe I could do that – then just in case, pop another layer of glass mat on that side too then the ply, then rebuild the rebuild side. I was mentioning this because I was asking for his opinion on how to rebuild an entire transom without actually cutting it away from the sides. I am still curious as to how the transom is connected to the sides of the boat. I will have to see. IF the wood is in obsolutely fabulous shape, then I will leave it and just repair the rot near the draintube. They definitely don’t make it like they used to so who knows I might be better off if it was only recently wet because of the recent cracks to the transom earlier this year – but something tells me the years of water sogged drain tube area has caused a long term exposure to moisture through osmosis and thus may have been wet for awhile.<br />I am going to definitely remove the first layer to the plywood, so that’s a given and I will find out more and let ya all know (with photos of course!)<br />The green bathtub will sail again!!!!

 

[SuzukiChopper]

Re: Photos inside - transom, flooring, etc..please - advice.

I don't know how all boats are done but with mine, I replaced it from the inside and that's where it was glassed to the hull. It was basically glued to the outside shell, then the joints were glassed over. To join the pieces for the transom that I did, I just used PL Premium (generously) between each sheet (two 3/4" and one 1/2") and then screws about every two inches. Then I used PL again between the hull and the new transom and then glassed the edges with mat, 24oz woven roving, mat again, roving and then a final layer of mat. Turned out bullet proof, very very strong. <br /><br />I'm thinking you'd be looking at the same kind of scenario just from the outside. You'll be left with a shell on the inside that you can join the transom too. Not quite sure, I'm sure someone else knows better than I do about doing the repair from the outside.

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Photos inside - transom, flooring, etc..please - advice.

It is more difficult to get to inside of the transom, but in the long run it will be easier and stronger than repairing it from the outside, and getting the outside looking good again will be difficult. <br /><br /><br /> "How is the transom connected to the sides of the boat"<br /><br />The glass in the transom is wrapped around onto the hull bottom and sides. The wood is just sandwiched between the inside and outside layers of fiberglass. Normally there are no bolts or brackets holding the transom in place, its just the fiberglass.

 

[sincraft]

Re: Photos inside - transom, flooring, etc..please - advice.

so I am wondering then, if I cut down to the ply, am I not actually weakening the transom as glass matting will no longer be in one single piece, or does it not matter as matting is used to create stability and strength in small areas while roven woven and fabric is made to hold stregth throughout?<br /><br />I guess I am wondering 'where' to start replacing or if I should replace the entire ply from the outside. Then OVERLAP the current as much as possible then build up from there on the backend.<br /><br />As far as strength rebuilding it from the outside, I would think this would be stronger as the old glass etc is on the inside where strength is not as much of an issue wouldnt you?<br /><br />At any rate, I need to cut this stuff out and will get close to the edges to find the end of the ply. Does anyone know where the ply usually ends or should I expect it to run all the way to about 1" shy of the end of the boat?<br /><br />The good news is, I should be home by 6pm and there is actually NO rain in the forecast! So I should be working by 6:30 the latest on this <br />I will update with photos of course later tonight hehe.<br /><br />S

 

[SuzukiChopper]

Re: Photos inside - transom, flooring, etc..please - advice.

Replacing from the outside will not be stronger. Most hulls are one full shell, essentially one piece. By cutting the outside you're compromising the one piece of the hull. You should be able to regain alot if not as much or even more of the strength back by using the right materials when you put it all back together. Shouldn't be any more difficult then doing it from the inside except the time it'll take to get it to look good again. <br /><br />You'll probably find that the transom extends right from one side to the other, with very little gap.

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Photos inside - transom, flooring, etc..please - advice.

I don't know of anybody that does this kind of repair from the outside, but it can be done, it's just not the best way. On a small boat like this, if there is very little rotten wood, it will be fairly quick to do it from the inside. <br />Don't make this repair more difficult than it needs to be.