Ooops, We Made a Mistake!

dogsdad

Lieutenant
Joined
Aug 8, 2003
Messages
1,293
"CBSNEWS LAUNCHES INTERNAL INVESTIGATION AFTER SUSPICIOUS BUSH DOCS AIRED<br /><br />**Exclusive**<br /><br />CBS NEWS executives have launched an internal investigation into whether its premiere news program 60 MINUTES aired fabricated documents relating to Bush's National Guard service, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned.<br /><br />"The reputation and integrity of the entire news division is at stake, if we are in error, it will be corrected," a top CBS source explained late Thursday.<br /><br />The source, who asked not to be named, described CBSNEWS anchor and 60 MINUTES correspondent Dan Rather as being privately "shell-shocked" by the increasingly likelihood that the documents in question were fraudulent.<br /><br />Rather, who anchored the segment presenting new information on the president's military service, will personally correct the record on-air, if need be, the source explained from New York." <br /><br /><br />Given the obvious bias of CBS/NBC/ABC/CNN in regards to the Presidential race, I don't think I buy the idea that an honest mistake was made. I think it was a deliberate and calculated attempt on CBS's part to smear Bush.<br /><br />It's funny how this surfaces just as the old Clinton bunch gets involved in Kerry's campaign. I think this has James Carville's fingerprints all over it (he's one of the few people I've ever studied on the television who seems to be a bigger liar than Al "Queda" Gore).
 

POINTER94

Vice Admiral
Joined
Oct 12, 2003
Messages
5,031
Re: Ooops, We Made a Mistake!

CBS = Partisan News Hacks<br /><br />How did they support their sources? The usual three sources or whatever was slipped in the mail to them. Journalism, Ha.
 

WillyBWright

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Dec 29, 2003
Messages
8,200
Re: Ooops, We Made a Mistake!

I mentioned in a previous thread that prior to any presidential election, all the propaganda you hear from both sides of the aisle has a BS factor depending on the number of the month. In January, you can expect 10% of what you hear to be BS. In June it's up to 60%. September means 90% of what you hear is BS. Now the question is which report is BS? Drudge or CBS?
 

dogsdad

Lieutenant
Joined
Aug 8, 2003
Messages
1,293
Re: Ooops, We Made a Mistake!

Willy, I think you can look at what CBS is saying to answer that one.<br /><br />Another story on this ends by saying that there is speculation within the democratic party that the Kerry campaign was set with all this by Carl Rove. Now that would be the most brilliant political dirty trick I ever heard of (JR Ewing, hide your face!), but I don't think it's true. The dems (and their accomplices in the major media) are doing a fine job of self-destructing all by their little ol' selves.<br /><br />I am in full agreement, Pointer. The major media has tipped their hand and all but broadcast that they are nothing more than an extension of the democratic socialist party of the United states. The Age of Information has taken their monopoly away!<br /><br /><br />-dd-
 

Ralph 123

Captain
Joined
Jun 24, 2003
Messages
3,983
Re: Ooops, We Made a Mistake!

Here is your chance to be heard. The link below will allow you to express your disappointment with what is at best gross negligence on behalf of CBS News, and at worst, outright diception:<br /><br /> http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/feedback/fb_news_form.shtml <br /><br />Here is a report from ABC News:<br /><br />
More than half a dozen document experts contacted by ABC News said they had doubts about the memos' authenticity. <br /><br />"These documents do not appear to have been the result of technology that was available in 1972 and 1973," said Bill Flynn, one of country's top authorities on document authentication. "The cumulative evidence that's available … indicates that these documents were produced on a computer, not a typewriter:" <br /><br />Among the points Flynn and other experts noted: <br /><br /> The memos were written using a proportional typeface, where letters take up variable space according to their size, rather than fixed-pitch typeface used on typewriters, where each letter is allotted the same space. Proportional typefaces are available only on computers or on very high-end typewriters that were unlikely to be used by the National Guard. <br /><br /> The memos include superscript, i.e. the "th" in "187th" appears above the line in a smaller font. Superscript was not available on typewriters. <br /><br /> The memos included "curly" apostrophes rather than straight apostrophes found on typewriters. <br /><br /> The font used in the memos is Times Roman, which was in use for printing but not in typewriters. The Haas Atlas — the bible of fonts — does not list Times Roman as an available font for typewriters. <br /><br /> The vertical spacing used in the memos, measured at 13 points, was not available in typewriters, and only became possible with the advent of computers. <br />
 

KaGee

Admiral
Joined
Aug 14, 2004
Messages
7,069
Re: Ooops, We Made a Mistake!

What a Moron! Using MS Word. But it's like they say... no one ever accused a criminal of being brilliant.
 

Ralph 123

Captain
Joined
Jun 24, 2003
Messages
3,983
Re: Ooops, We Made a Mistake!

Saturday, another retired Air National Guard officer came forward to attack CBSNEWS credibility. Retired Maj. Gen. Bobby W. Hodges, who was cited by a senior CBS official on Thursday as the network's "trump card" in verifying the documents, said in an interview that he was "misled" by CBS and believed the documents to be forgeries.
 

woodrat

Ensign
Joined
Jul 27, 2004
Messages
949
Re: Ooops, We Made a Mistake!

And of course this whole new debate about font size and spacing gets us way off the track of the original topic: did george bush serve honorably or not? and even before the new questionable documents came out, there was plenty of evidence that he did not. Personally, I loved the "we lost the records" BS from the pentagon a while back. Of course they did! Isn't there still an unclaimed monetary reward for anyone who can prove that george showed up and performed his duties in alabama? <br /><br />Both candidates are blowhards, but at least one didn't shirk his duties. Maybe george didn't either, but he can't seem to prove it.
 

dogsdad

Lieutenant
Joined
Aug 8, 2003
Messages
1,293
Re: Ooops, We Made a Mistake!

So, since no documents proving Bush did not fulfill his obligations can be found, it's okay for the DNC or CBS/NBC/ABC/CNN/Time/Newsweek/NYT to create them? Sorry, this is too transparent and is sooooo consistent with the liberals' attempt to hijack an election and stage a coup.<br /><br />Your comment looks like an attempt to take the attention off those who are trying to deceive the electorate. That strategy used to work when the mainstream press controlled virtually all the flow of information. It doesn't seem to work anymore.<br /><br />It's a new day.
 

woodrat

Ensign
Joined
Jul 27, 2004
Messages
949
Re: Ooops, We Made a Mistake!

Who knows whose trying to deceive who here? How is it that the republican supporters can look the other way when george and his guys deceive the whole world about WMD and so forth, and yet get all over the POSSIBILITY that one or two pages of documentation about georges past MIGHT be faked? If the documents are fakes, then the dems must be sub-primate stupid or suicidal to wave them around like that. <br /><br />AS far as "those who are trying to deceive the electorate" that would be both parties and both candidates. They are all pathological liars, and all any of them want is power for their side. None of them would bat an eye about deceiving anyone to gain and hang on to power.
 

woodrat

Ensign
Joined
Jul 27, 2004
Messages
949
Re: Ooops, We Made a Mistake!

Its all the same old partisanship double standard. Whatever my guy did is OK, whatever the other guy did is impeachable.
 

Ralph 123

Captain
Joined
Jun 24, 2003
Messages
3,983
Re: Ooops, We Made a Mistake!

Yup, GW deceived the world about WMDs. One the one hand the left thinks he's too dumb to tie his own shoes and on the other hand they try to claim he is smart enough to deceive the world. They don't even see the blatant inconsistencies in their own "logic." <br /><br />You want a checkmate? Go read what Vlad Putin said to the press a few months ago. He admitted he told GW Iraq had WMDs and were planning attacks on the US.<br /><br />Now, what about all the Dems, including Kerry that voted to allow force? You think they just took GW's word for it? Ya, right.<br /><br />Now, what about the 15 members of the security council who voted unanimously to force Saddam to come clean. I guess GW fooled all them too. Ya, right.<br /><br />Wake up... Go ask the kurds and Iranians if he had WMDs... I guess all the chem suits and antropine injectors on the front line were there for decorations...the question is not "if he had them" but "where the he!! are they"
 

12Footer

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
Messages
8,217
Re: Ooops, We Made a Mistake!

Originally posted by woodrat:<br /> Its all the same old partisanship double standard. Whatever my guy did is OK, whatever the other guy did is impeachable.
For once, something you said that I can totally agree with, PW2.<br />Call it "double-standard" if you want. I call it, "no standards -vs- Standards". And guess which has the standards.
 

Ralph 123

Captain
Joined
Jun 24, 2003
Messages
3,983
Re: Ooops, We Made a Mistake!

WOW! WOW! WOW!<br /><br />
<br />Here We Go Some More <br />By The Prowler <br />Published 9/13/2004 12:08:06 AM <br /><br /> <br /> While CBS news anchor Dan Rather can say there is no internal investigation under way over the alleged forged documents used as the foundation for an investigation into President George W. Bush's National Guard service, you wouldn't have been able to tell from the 15 or so 60 Minutes and CBS News" staffers working away feverishly on Friday and Saturday to try to nail down their story.<br /><br />On Friday, according to CBS News sources, Rather spent the day on the phone and dealing with CBS suits who were nervous about the fall out from the story. "All Dan could say was that this was an attack from the right-wing nuts, and that we should have expected this, given the stakes," says a CBS News producer. "He was terribly defensive and nervous. You could tell."<br /><br />All day Friday, Rather, his producer on the story, Mary Mapes, and other 60 Minutes staffers were scrambling to shore up support from their sources on the story. That effort didn't go so well. By Saturday, one of their key sources, retired Maj. Gen. Bobby Hodges, had said that CBS misled him, and that he had never been shown the memos in question. <br /><br />"We pulled the trick of only calling some sources at the last minute to reconfirm," says the CBS producer. "Someone called Hodges, I think, on Monday night and read him parts of the document. The late contacts are a standard practice so we don't tip off the competition or our sources." <br /><br />Hodges is a critical loss for CBS News' credibility. He was the superior officer of the man CBS claims wrote the memo, Lt. Col. Jerry Killian, who died in 1984.<br /><br /><br />MEANWHILE, OVER THE WEEKEND journalists from around the country were attempting to track down the original source of the documents. "We're having a hard time tracking how we got the documents," says the CBS News producer. "There are at least two people in this building who have insisted we got copies of these memos from the Kerry campaign by way of an additional source. We do not have the originals, and our sources have indicated to us that we will not be getting the originals. How that is possible I don't know."<br /><br />One individual several news outlets were looking at was Bill Burkett, a former Texas National Guard officer. Burkett in the past has cooperated with both press and Democratic Party opposition researchers in slinging mud at President Bush. Burkett gained some national attention earlier in the campaign when he claimed he was at National Guard headquarters in Austin 1997, when he overheard Guard officials and a representative of then Governor Bush discuss how to sanitize Bush's files. That story was fully discredited. Nonetheless, Burkett sat down for at least three different interviews with CBS News for the story now at the center of the controversy. One of those interviews was with Rather's producer, Ms. Mapes. <br /><br />"There are rumors here that if there are any real documents, they are hand-written notes from Killian that someone like Burkett was holding, and that instead of using the hand-written notes, someone typed them up to look more official," says the CBS News producer. "They would look better on TV and posted on line if they were typed, but on a number of levels, that story just doesn't hold up. There are too many inconsistencies factually with what is in the memos."<br /><br /><br />THE MOST GLARING ISSUES now are the seemingly phony P.O. Box addresses used in the headers of at least one of the memorandums. Such post office box addresses were not used by the National Guard at that time, let alone a box with a number "34567," as in the memo. <br /><br />Yet another issue: the 18-month gap between the retirement of Col. Walter "Buck" Staudt on March 1, 1972, and August 18, 1973, when the Killian of the disputed memos claimed that Staudt was putting pressure on him to sugarcoat an evaluation of Bush. Almost everyone involved in the National Guard in Texas says Staudt would have had virtually no influence in the active units nearly a year and a half after leaving the service.<br /><br /><br />PERHAPS MOST TROUBLING to the CBS News staff looking into how its story went off the rails is the timing of the memos' appearance. "Some 60 Minutes staffers have been working on this story for more than three years off and on," says the CBS News producer. "There have been rumors about these memos and what was in them for at least that long. No one had been able to find anything. Not a single piece of paper. But we know that a lot of people here interviewed a lot of people in Texas and elsewhere and asked very explicit questions about the existence of these memos. Then all of a sudden they show up? In one nice, neat package?"<br /><br />This CBS New producer went on to explain that the questions 60 Minutes folk were asking were specific enough that people would have been able to fabricate the memorandums to meet the exact specifications the investigative journalists were looking for. "People were asking questions of sources like, 'Have you ever seen or heard of a memo that suspended Bush for failing to appear for a physical?' and 'Have you heard about or know of someone who has any documentation from back in the 1970s that shows there was pressure to get Bush into the National Guard?' It was like they were placing an order for a ready-made product. That is the biggest problem I have with this. It's all too neat and perfect for what we needed. Without these exact pieces of paper, we don't have a story. Dan has as much as admitted that. Everyone knows it. We were at a standstill on this story until these memos showed up."<br /><br /><br />REPORTERS ARE ALSO LOOKING at staff and associates of Sen. Tom Harkin, who enthusiastically held a press conference on Thursday morning using the forged documents as the tent pole for attacks against President Bush. Harkin called Bush a "liar."<br /><br />"Harkin has been pushing this story for a while," says the CBS producer. "Not this specific story, but the 'Bush is a liar about his record' story. His people seemed particularly interested in making sure they could keep their boss up to date on what was going on." <br /><br />That Harkin was the individual selected to be the attack dog on this particular issue was an interesting one, give that Harkin himself has a checkered history about telling the truth about his involvement in the Vietnam War. <br /><br /><br />WITH MORALE AT WHAT some Kerry campaign insiders consider an all-time low, Sen. John Kerry, who unlike Tom Harkin did serve in Vietnam, did what any true leader does. He sets up a conference call. During the Labor Day weekend, during meetings with senior staff, campaign director Mary Beth Cahill suggested to the candidate that he try to buck up the troops, since the media onslaught against him, as well as the dipping poll numbers, were affecting staff in Washington and in satellite offices around the country. Kerry acknowledged their concerns by gathering the Washington staff into the central office space in their McPherson Square suites and speaking to them via speaker phone. Kerry told them that things were going well on the road. The crowds were enthusiastic, and he could feel the campaign was moving in the right direction with the new senior staff additions. <br /><br />"He actually said that he felt the campaign had turned the corner," says a Washington-based staffer. "Some of us couldn't help but laugh given that he's made fun of Bush for saying the same thing. You hear stuff like that and you just feel sick. You look over at people like [Joe] Lockhart and Cahill and they seem to understand it too."<br /><br />Kerry further undercut his own efforts, when he hung up his side of the call before any questions could be asked by staff members. <br /><br />"[Kerry] doesn't seem to want to acknowledge that he has problems," says the staffer. "I'm low level, but there are a few people here who have stopped coming in to work or to volunteer. We've got some issues, and the guy who should be trying to help fix it doesn't seem to care."<br /><br />Cahill seems to understand this. On Thursday, since the candidate wouldn't face his own staff, Cahill pulled out the big guns. She invited her old boss, Sen. Ted Kennedy down to the Washington offices to further raise the morale of Kerry's staff. <br /><br />Kennedy actually said little about Kerry, beyond the fact that he was a fighter who would continue fighting. After mentioning Kerry, Kennedy then went on a 10-minute diatribe about President Bush. "His face was turning red, he was really getting into it," says the Kerry staffer. "Then the next day we saw him make the same speech on the floor of the Senate. Guess we were the dress rehearsal."<br /><br /><br />THERE ARE OTHER PROBLEMS with the Kerry campaign. According to several Kerry and DNC sources, Kerry advisers have been furiously holding focus group meetings in an attempt to find some issue of national concern that might cut their way in the coming weeks. But nothing they've looked at seems to be working. Of course, even if they were to find something there is no guarantee their man would run with it.<br /><br />For example, some media types thought having his old pal John Sasso along on the road would help focus Kerry a bit more on his stump speeches. Judging by Kerry's performance last Thursday in North Carolina, they're not sure anymore. While talking about the economy, health-care policy, Kerry went off speech and began stumbling immediately. Kerry said that he would always tell the public the truth, and if the audience didn't believe him, they could "[g]o to a web site. It can be johnkerry.com or go some other place. Go to truth.com, if there is one, and find out what's really happening," Kerry said.<br /><br />Truth.com won't set you free, but at least you'll be able to see a bit more clearly. Truth.com is operated by Truth Hardware, makers of a complete line of locks, window hinges and remote-controlled power window systems.<br /> <br /> <br /> <br />
http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=7099
 

SCO

Lieutenant
Joined
Aug 19, 2001
Messages
1,463
Re: Ooops, We Made a Mistake!

So PW2 is now aka "Woodrat" 12'r?
 

woodrat

Ensign
Joined
Jul 27, 2004
Messages
949
Re: Ooops, We Made a Mistake!

Skip the BS name calling 12 footer. You can either show me the respect of calling me by my handle, as I do for you, or cease talking to me at all, OK? I guess I'm just too dumb to even get whatever lame joke you must be trying to make at my expense.<br /><br />I think all the lame congresspeople who handed their war-making authority to GW just did whatever was the path of least resistance. No one wanted to be branded as "unpatriotic". The patriot act was passed without even being read by the idiots who voted for it. Who wants to be on record as having voted against the "Patriot Act"?<br /><br />As far as violating UN security council resolutions goes, on the one hand, you repubs want to use security council resolutions as legitimate proof of some wrongdoing on saddam's part, but then want to fly in the face of the UN and start a unilateral invasion against the UN's wishes. More hypocrisy and double standard. I thought we were supposed to mistrust the UN and the whole global government agenda, so why even bring them up? And if you're going to start tossing around UN resolutions like they mean something to you, how many has Israel violated over the years? And how many times has the US gone whole hog to try and enforce those resolutions concerning Israel? And what about Israel's WMD program? Shouldn't we be forcing them to declare their programs and be subject to inspection? If not, why not?
 

SCO

Lieutenant
Joined
Aug 19, 2001
Messages
1,463
Re: Ooops, We Made a Mistake!

This is a powerfull article from William Safire RE the apparent forgeries<br /> http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,317834,00.html <br /><br />Also Woodrat, you have illustrated the major problem that the Repubs have with the Dems when you say :<br /><br />"And of course this whole new debate about font size and spacing gets us way off the track of the original topic: did george bush serve honorably or not? "<br /><br />Your view seems to be that the ends justify the means. We don't agree with that. We need to understand the facts so we can make the proper conclusions and form valid opinions. False facts will take us to false conclusions about Bush's service. That's a Dem screwup, not the Repubs. It is the very reason that the Dem credibility is damaged. It is the reason that many of us think that Matt, Katie, Charlie ,Dianne, Peter, Tom, Dan cannot be trusted to be objective. This is a very big deal.
 

woodrat

Ensign
Joined
Jul 27, 2004
Messages
949
Re: Ooops, We Made a Mistake!

BTW, 12 footer, Arnold, being foreign-born, is not eligible to run for prez, sorry to dash your hopes. <br /><br />Of course you true-blue conservatives could try for yet another constitutional amendment to fix that...
 

woodrat

Ensign
Joined
Jul 27, 2004
Messages
949
Re: Ooops, We Made a Mistake!

I guess I didn't make myself clear, SCO. If indeed these documents are fake, then it certainly does severly damage the credibility of all who waved them around like that (I have no TV in my home, so my news is only internet and occasisionally the radio. There is likely a lot out there about this issue that I have not heard anything about). <br /><br />My point was more that the allegedly fake documents have done a splendid job of diverting the conversation from actual facts about GW's service, to whether or not this particular set of documents is fake. <br /><br />I did not mean AT ALL to imply that the ends justify the means. I think that those questioning GW's records should stick to provable facts, and should do a much better job when looking at documents like this. You would think that even an ameteur could tell the difference between a laser printed document and a type-written one.<br /><br />I think you are right that this is a very big deal and if I were one of the ones out there trumpeting these documents as a smoking gun, I would be feeling pretty damn stupid right now. If this proves out, it will be a slam dunk for GW and the gang.<br /><br />I do think we need to understand the facts here, and I don't think either side can be trusted to provide the facts.
 

12Footer

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
Messages
8,217
Re: Ooops, We Made a Mistake!

Originally posted by woodrat:<br /> BTW, 12 footer, Arnold, being foreign-born, is not eligible to run for prez, sorry to dash your hopes. <br /><br />Of course you true-blue conservatives could try for yet another constitutional amendment to fix that...
Answering the other in a long disertation.It may take me a while to colate your own comments.<br />Gawd, this is fun!!<br />As for Arny, That is precisely what they intend to do, and are werking on changing that law. Don't fret,man.They learned how to do it from the liberals and socialists who do it all the time to get what they want. They have used it to ok baby murder, gun bans, freedom of speech, cival rights,ect (I could go-on, but I have a lengthy reply to publish)...Thanks for the opertiunities you present to me, "Woodrat".
 
Top