OMC Engine Tuner vs. Deep Creep

[timmathis]

Re: OMC Engine Tuner vs. Deep Creep

Seafoam or deep creep, which is the same thing, one is just in a spray can. Does a great job for decarbing. I never have to do it due to my ratio of gas oil mix. I myself have retired, But my best friend owns a marine dealership and I spend a lot of my time in his shop. A lot of times we can tell when rebuilding a IB or OB if a customer has recently tried decarbing. Sometimes we ask out of curiosity. (There will be way less carbon and cleaner) And most people say "They used Deep Creep"!! Tim

 

[Scali]

Re: OMC Engine Tuner vs. Deep Creep

Gasoline isnt a strong solvent it's very oily , kerosene which is a main ingredient in Marval mystery Oil really cleans out & lubes a fuel system as does Seafoam.<br />Ben's gripe seems to be with decarbing in general.., your using a quality oil & your motors run fine then maybe you dont need to do it.<br />For the people that do Seafoam really works..

 

[timmathis]

Re: OMC Engine Tuner vs. Deep Creep

Ring Free works well also.<br />Tim

 

[roscoe]

Re: OMC Engine Tuner vs. Deep Creep

Originally posted by Ben Walker:<br /> <br />The ingrediants in Sea foam like pale oil and Kerosene will actually contribute to carbon deposits when ran througha two stroke.

There is no kerosene in Seafoam. But JP-5 is a pretty good solvent. But is a bit heavy and not strong enough to be used as a 2 stroke decarb IMO.<br />The pale oil is a necessary lubricant. Can't run a 2 stroke without lubrication.<br /><br />Naphtha on the other hand, which is in Seafoam, is a very strong solvent mixture which often contains benzine.<br /><br />LubeDude is right on the massive amounts of goo people see. But that doesn't account for the chunks that are often found on the sparkplugs.<br /><br />As said before, decarbing is a manufacturers recomendation, and is a preventative maintenance procedure that is intended to remove deposits before a large amount of carbon is accumulated.<br /><br />If anyone can positively id the manufacturer of the other branded decarb products, maybe we can come up with the ingredients of them. Either the manufacturers name or the product msds number should help.

 

[Scali]

Re: OMC Engine Tuner vs. Deep Creep

Merc Power Tune is strong stuff as well, whenever I use it I save a little for cleaning spark plugs, stuff eats the carbon up.<br />Also good on the outside of lower unit under exhaust port where it gets dirty with carbon, takes it right off...

 

[BillP]

Re: OMC Engine Tuner vs. Deep Creep

My money is on OMC Tuner for decarbing. From firsthand use I know it works. Otherwise, I don't use commercial foggers but if I did it would be a fogger only and not a dual purpose product. I don't want solvents removing anything in the motor when I'm trying to build up a film to protect from corrosion. Best time to decarb is at the beginning of the season so all the bad stuff stays on the parts and gives additional protection.

 

[Bwalker]

Re: OMC Engine Tuner vs. Deep Creep

Guys the main ingrediant is Pale oil. Can we agree that pale oil will not rmove much carbon. Naptha is also present, but naptha in my expierance is a poorer solvent than straight gasoline.<br />"Gasoline isnt a strong solvent it's very oily "<br />Gasoline is a very strong solvent. More aggressive in nature than kerosene.<br />"I never have to do it due to my ratio of gas oil mix"<br />Tim, if you feel better you can think that, but a major source of carbon deposits is todays gasoline. By using less oil you are just cutting down on the quantity of dispersent and detergeant additives that are going through your motor. you can guess what the effect is. I have actually ran 150 hour tests in lawn equipment where a engine run at on Amsoil 100:1 had significantly more piston crown and ring belt deposits that one ran with another oil at 32:1.<br /> Racing engines ran at 16:1 are very clean internally as well.<br /><br />BTW guys from some of the comments you guys make it seems to me that you believe I run some high quality oil in my fishing lodges outboards. Nothing could be farther from the truth. I use Esso outboard semi synthetic, because it is cheap. Cheaper than the OEM oils and the other alternatives like Petro canada and Shell that are available locally.<br />I even had a employee of mine mix the fuel at 25:1 this year on accident and never had to change a plug or had any sort of carbon issue. I infact just pulled ten motors that we are trading in this year and all had low deposit levels and high compression. Maybe I am just lucky?

 

[roscoe]

Re: OMC Engine Tuner vs. Deep Creep

I'm done.<br />You can't have an honest discussion with someone that argues and uses "logic" like a democrat politician.

 

[timmathis]

Re: OMC Engine Tuner vs. Deep Creep

ROFLOL!

 

[Bwalker]

Re: OMC Engine Tuner vs. Deep Creep

Breath Rosco, breath!!

 

[Bwalker]

Re: OMC Engine Tuner vs. Deep Creep

BTW I thought i might point out that I used the term Kerosene in place of Naptha by mistake in a adove post.

 

[ZmOz]

Re: OMC Engine Tuner vs. Deep Creep

Ben, you REALLY should not be *****ing about a product which you have never used. Go to ANY forum that discusses gasoline engines of any type - boats, cars, trucks, planes, lawnmowers - WHATEVER, and EVERYONE who has actually tried it will tell you it's a good product. Nearly any liquid you pour into the carbs of a running motor will remove carbon. Water, ATF, diesel, even **** would probably work. The smoke coming out is NOT unburnt seafoam. Try it in a brand new or rebuilt engine that you know doesn't have any carbon buildup. It will not smoke. Try it in another engine that does have carbon buildup. It will smoke like a tire fire. The smoke is from the carbon being removed/burnt up. Half burned seafoam does not turn into a thick black liquid. Go ahead...pour some in a can and light it on fire. At no point during it's combustion will you find a thick black liquid. When I first bought my '74 Mercury 1500 it would start and run fine out of the water, but under load it would not rev over 1200 RPMs without dying. Many, many experts could not come up with any reason for this problem. I ran a can of seafoam through the gas and a can of deep creep through the carbs. Took it back to the river, engine worked perfectly, and I never actually "fixed" anything. Was that just a "placebo"? After that I went home and put another can of deep creep through the carbs. Didn't smoke this time. Why? Because the carbon had already been burned out.

 

[Pony]

Re: OMC Engine Tuner vs. Deep Creep

Well said ZmOz....well said.<br /><br />Ben I respect your opinion and you do bring up some good points, especially about the gasoline ratio affecting carbon build-up. <br /><br />I still think that regardless of how you run a two stroke, carbon deposits/ build-up is ineviteable. Maybe certain oil gas combinations produce more or less than others.....I just feel that decarbing a motor is such great preventative maintence, that all outboard users should consider it. Even if Seafoam doesnt do much (which i still doubt), its still a peace of mind factor. Much like using a transom saver....It may or may not be vitale, but it isnt hurting anything if used properly. It has certainly worked for me, and it has worked for others. Whatever is in it, it works, and thats all i care about. And this is no knock on you Ben, as i said before I agree with a lot of what you say, and when all is said and done these are our motors and we care for them how we feel is necessary. So like you said maybe you are lucky, idk. If you dont need to decarb, thats great for you, and i wish i didnt have to. Wish i knew more of the technical stuff like you guys seem to know, all i have is personal expirience.

 

[timmathis]

Re: OMC Engine Tuner vs. Deep Creep

"Quote" from Ben <br />"I even had a employee of mine mix the fuel at 25:1 this year on accident and never had to change a plug or had any sort of carbon issue. I infact just pulled ten motors that we are trading in this year and all had low deposit levels and high compression. Maybe I am just lucky?" "Quote"<br /><br /><br /> BS. It would take a long time to foul plugs at 25:1 or make a carbon issue not just a mistake! <br />(You said in your post. "That gas makes the most carbon not oil.") Also I find it unbelievable that you disassembled the 10 motors to check the carbon levels before trading! Not lucky. FOS, Tim

 

[Bwalker]

Re: OMC Engine Tuner vs. Deep Creep

I didnt disassemble them, but I did take compression readings, and inspect through the plug hole with a bore light. You have to do this when trading in camp motors because the dealers will use any excuse to lower your trade in price. Inspecting elliminates the BS.<br /> And Yes 2000 gallons of fuel mixed at 25:1 was ran through our motors over a month long period. Some merc 20's and 25's and the rest 100:1 speced Yamahas.

 

[Bwalker]

Re: OMC Engine Tuner vs. Deep Creep

""That gas makes the most carbon not oil.") Also I "<br /> Have you ever looked at the piston crown of a small four stroke carburated engine? <br /> I had to replace the crank on a Honda 6.5 hp this year and the piston had as much or more carbon than any two stroke I have been inside.<br /> Now, Tim, are you calling me a liar?

 

[Bwalker]

Re: OMC Engine Tuner vs. Deep Creep

Check this pic on the first post of page 2. its the piston out of my heavily modified Polaris snowmobile that was ran at 32:1 its whole life.<br /> http://www.dootalk.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=48934&st=15

 

[Pony]

Re: OMC Engine Tuner vs. Deep Creep

Hey Ben....Is a bore light the same as lets say a pen light???<br /><br />I ask because I used one to look into my cylinders today. What exactly do you look for? Would carbon thats in there just be black substance on the piston head? (I assume it is, just double checking). What should a healthy top of the piston look like?<br /><br />Sorry if these questions seem silly...just that this thread has caused me to become awfully curious about what goes on inside my engine.

 

[Bwalker]

Re: OMC Engine Tuner vs. Deep Creep

No, its not like a pen light although a penlight may be used.<br /> What I look for is carbon deposits in the exhaust port, scoring on the clylinder walls, and excessive buildup on the piston crown. The crown shoudl have a light coating of carbon as any IC engine will have, but there shouldnt be much in the way of raised deposits. After I have inspected the bore I will sometimes also pull the exhaust cover, and inspect the pistons ring belt. I only do this last step if I run into heavy deposit issue when checking the bore.<br />FWIW these Mercs in question started having exhaust gasket failures this year and all but 2 needed new gaskets. As a result I got to see what the ring belt and ports looked like. The belt was bare metal and the port had minimal carbon buildup.<br /> One thing to also consider when doing a inspection is that the engine should be shut down prior to inspection with minimal idle time. Idling floods the cylinder with raw fuel and tends to make a inspection harder because everything is wet looking.<br />BTW the borescope I use is made to inspect rifle barrels.

 

[Pony]

Re: OMC Engine Tuner vs. Deep Creep

Thanks Ben...<br />It helps to know what I'm looking at when I am inspecting my motor. (ok its not inspecting, its just me pretending I know what i am looking for)