Off to court I guess... Fiberglass dust in my car.

[skargo]

Re: Off to court I guess...

Re: Off to court I guess...

I am going to go the other way, your over-reacting.

I have owned a Camaro of that vintage and still have a similar car, I do everything myself and only trust one mechanic with it when something is out of my reach (installing tires on wheels for example). I also do body work on the side and my family owns a shop and I'm a professional detailer as a 2nd job. When you get to the point of the door being removed exc.. often it gets dusty/ dirty inside and no amount of plastic will prevent that. Some dust only sticks to certain materials and other times the dust rises when the car is in the paint baking.

They will return the car to you detailed, it is customary and professional, you would never know. they will blow out the air vents, extract the carpet, clean the leather and probably just blow off the top inside and out. Going in ranting and raving is not going to get you anywhere and hiring a lawyer is un-necessary. Take a deep breath, it was unfortunate, but ANY car can be involved in an accident and even though this was special, life goes on and you will have it back. I'm sure the shop you are using recognized this is a vehicle that has had pride of ownership and will return it to you likewise.

I am agreeing here, we used to have cars covered inside, can't be helped sometimes. We had a great detail shop.

I suspect most of the dust is from sanding anyway...

 

[joewithaboat]

Re: Off to court I guess...

Re: Off to court I guess...

And if it were normal dust, say from sanding body filler (plain bondo) I would probably agree to an extent. I still say 99% of it could have been avoided. Heck, just putting a drop cloth over the cloth top would have made a huge differance. However, when we are talking FG or DynaGlass its an entirely different thing. This morning I spoke with three highly thought of detail shops (recommend by my insurance company) and explained it was FG or DynoGlass they all three said they would not make any sort of guarantee of gettign it "all" and would prefer not to take the job on due to the heath hazard / risk to their employees. I would assume that as this is what they do for a living they would know what they are talking about.

You are probably correct in that if they had a chance to detail the car I may not have known the extent of the problem and went merrily on my way and not realized there was an issue until problems (like my wife being effected horribly by FG. She breaks out just looking at it.) cropped up.

My driving in the car is one thing, lord knows I've exposed myself to far to many chemicals over the years out of ignorance but do I want to have the wife, the kids, or my 4 month old grannd son exposed to it? The answer at this point is a resounding no. To me, it simply isn't worth the risks. No car is.

Would you realy expose a 4 month old (or any child) to it knowing the ventilation system is full of this garbage?

I agree that you should be safe especially with the 4 month old who is more susceptible to neurological damage.

I would be pissed as heck that they treated my car that way. I think you are owed compensation.

I however do think you are over reacting to reading an MDS sheet. The vents likely are not full unless someone ran the system while it was dirty. High pressure air will clean a lot. I own and operate a custom millwork shop, every six months or so i clean my daily driver of the sawdust build up that gathers in it. After a 4-5 hour detail it looks new again. High pressure air will do wonders. I have worked around all sorts of things with terrifying MDS sheets and lived to tell.

I am not trying to minimalize your damage, but you are being a little over the top.

What did the dealer say?

Good luck!

 

[NetDoc]

Re: Off to court I guess...

Re: Off to court I guess...

Dust in the Wind!
All we are is Dust in the wind!

So lets see... you put a thousand miles on the car per year. So, you don't really drive it that often and I would bet you have kids in there even less. Also, you haven't had the dust analysed, so you don't even know what kind of dust it really is. If it has "hooks" then it will be fairly stuck in the fabric. Hard for it to transfer if this is the case. What can't be pried away by suction and compressed air is there for the ages. Little if any health concerns would be possible.

I get it... its your baby. Your prized possession... but that's what it really is. A thing. It is destined to deteriorate and pass into uselessness just as we are. Rather than worry about the possession, go play with your grand baby. In the grand scheme of things, I couldn't sweat it. Its not that I don't understand how important it is to you. I got that. I just think that you're making a mountain out of a mole hill. When it comes to physical possessions, don't sweat the small stuff. While you're at it, remember its all small stuff... especially compared to a human.

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: Off to court I guess... Fiberglass dust in my car.

Well, considering the loss of value you were going to have as a result of your accident, maybe the purchase price for the dealership won't be too high?

I didn't think the hood was fiberglas, but carbon fiber? So, its fibers are different, right? Maybe not any better, though? If the door skin & fender were replaced, there is not fiberglas dust from that. So what you really have is regular dust from body filler? That's no big deal.

 

[dave11]

Re: Off to court I guess...

Re: Off to court I guess...

It is the health hazard I also would worry about. A good friend died from breathing fibers.

 

[Mark42]

Re: Off to court I guess...

Re: Off to court I guess...

Have been in the exact same situation as you, although my car was a Honda Civic. Get a good shop vac and vac, vac, vac and vac some more. The hard/smooth surfaces will clean up fast, the dust will not go down the air vents very far,(aka the shop vac can suck out 99% of the dust). The carpet is the hard part to clean. I suggest vac, vac, and vac some more.

Also, the most important thing you can do is call your insurance company and make a claim against the shop for poor/illegal practices that left you with a hazardous interior in your car.

Talk to your insurance before doing anything else (besides closing the windows).

Regards,

Mark

 

[rivermouse]

Re: Off to court I guess...

Re: Off to court I guess...

Problem is that havent told you it is ready yet have they. Let them finish and clean the car and THEN when you pick it up inspect it first. If you can find any dust they havent removed demand another professional clean up job and then finally if you can prove it has not been cleaned you could see a lawyer.

 

[Philip_G]

Re: Off to court I guess...

Re: Off to court I guess...

I am going to go the other way, your over-reacting.

I have owned a Camaro of that vintage and still have a similar car, I do everything myself and only trust one mechanic with it when something is out of my reach (installing tires on wheels for example). I also do body work on the side and my family owns a shop and I'm a professional detailer as a 2nd job. When you get to the point of the door being removed exc.. often it gets dusty/ dirty inside and no amount of plastic will prevent that. Some dust only sticks to certain materials and other times the dust rises when the car is in the paint baking.

They will return the car to you detailed, it is customary and professional, you would never know. they will blow out the air vents, extract the carpet, clean the leather and probably just blow off the top inside and out. Going in ranting and raving is not going to get you anywhere and hiring a lawyer is un-necessary. Take a deep breath, it was unfortunate, but ANY car can be involved in an accident and even though this was special, life goes on and you will have it back. I'm sure the shop you are using recognized this is a vehicle that has had pride of ownership and will return it to you likewise.

agreed. THEY'RE NOT DONE.

 

[NetDoc]

Re: Off to court I guess...

Re: Off to court I guess...

For those that think I am over reacting,

Bubba,

I grew up before OSHA started pointing out a lot of the bad things that can happen. I can't even imagine the thousands of brake systems (asbestos) that I routinely blew clean before we found out what CONTINUED exposure can do to a person. This applies not only to brake dust, but also to the many chemicals I was often exposed to. The human body can absorb and tolerate a large amount of pollution and remain healthy. If I were to go off of all the possible effects listed by OSHA for every hazardous product I have been exposed to, I should be barely living on life support. The MSDs for most things are needlessly scary. They are designed to scare you away from using anything and are barely useful at all. They don't effectively delineate between casual or chronic exposure. They avoid quantification of the dangers based on exposure and if ONE person thinks that at some time an exposure to something caused a problem, it will be listed there. They lack all discretion in describing possible harms that can happen to you. Here's a comical representation of that:

I don't think exposure to just one car (after it has been cleaned) is going to present a real and present danger for you and your loved ones. I am reminded of that scene in Zoolander after working a single day in the mines, he coughs, looks to his dad and says, "I think I got the black lung, Pops!" Think about it. Don't let irrational fear deprive you of the joy you get driving that car with your grand kids!

Mind you, I think they screwed up. We're in agreement there. They need to make it right. We're in agreement there as well. As for how the long term effects will play out, I think you're making a mountain out of fiber glass dust hills. I write this in all candor and respect your rights as an owner and your responsibilities as a grandfather. Its a thing. Ultimately, its disposable. But then, even with as many things as I own, I don't get significantly attached to them.

 

[scipper77]

Re: Off to court I guess...

Re: Off to court I guess...

Ok Bubba, a couple thoughts. First, how the beck do you keep getting into these dramatic situations? There was the fish kill/pond mess. The trooper/gun fiasco. Something happened with that family you helped with the mobile home (i don't remember exactly what that was however). Now this.

Fist, if the car can not be repaired to a condition where it can be insured then it should be considered a total loss. (not that I believe that's an option).

I have been on a couple of small accidents 2 warranty claims and in each case the work done did not match the factory original. The car was delivered with a small scratch in the clear coat that ran the length of the hood. The dealership wet sanders it out and 3 years later the hood started to crack (out of warranty at that point). I could go on about rattles due to stripped screws in trim painting the car the wrong shade of black and forgetting to put all of the fasteners that hold the trunk lining in back but I think you get the idea.
What I am getting at is that I am positive that the more work you have them do the more problems you will have with the work done. So be careful what you wish for. I'd bet there will be other issues that you will not notice for a few months and then it will be tough to get them to accept responsibility. I had a rear window that went up and down just fine but when down would freely move from front to back. Noticed that 8 months after the repair (the shop did fix that one however).

So you want the shop to replace the hvac system? They will be cleaning your leather aggressively. In two or three years will there be a thread about how all the leather in your car is now cracked and the shop says its due to normal ageing?

Not saying you should not pursue this issue, bit I will say you need to accept you are going to feel like you are getting screwed and need to decide where to cut your losses.

 

[joewithaboat]

Re: Off to court I guess...

Re: Off to court I guess...

As have I and now regret it. Ever heard of Trichlorethelene or Perchlorethelene? They are dry cleaning solvents used by every dry cleaner in the 70's. I worked around it and shrugged my shoulders and teased the other guys that they were reading to much into it when told it was hazardous. Problem was, it didn't effect me directly, it caused genetic damage and both my daughters were born with hearing losses. That's a guilt I will always carry with me because it could have been prevented had I paid attention to the MSDS.

heck, lets take it back to good old dollars. Say you are in the market for a collector / performance car. You come look at mine and I tell you its a great car blah. blah, blah and then tell you it had this problem and handed you the MSDS for you to read. Are you willing to buy it and make the same offer you would have before? Somehow I seriously doubt it. I WOULDN'T.

First off, Im truly sorry for your pass experiences with MSDS related exposure. No one should have to carry that guilt around. Remember, as I'm sure some doctor told, you that MIGHT have been the cause. Not trying to be critical, just trying to help.

Easily half of the cars that go through a body shop get covered in this dust. Its not ideal, but at the end of the day its not a big deal. I hang out with several guys who have spent their life in this industry. I do my own restoration work on my cars. I also work in an industry that has tons of info thrown at us about particulate matter in the air we breath. Most of what you breath in, you exhale right back out. ITS NOT A BIG DEAL

As to the car... for your piece of mind, stick the dealer with it... move on.

 

[NetDoc]

Re: Off to court I guess...

Re: Off to court I guess...

Glad to hear it! I hope it meets your expectations.

 

[oops!]

Re: Off to court I guess...

Re: Off to court I guess...

ok...... a couple of things here.

first off.....the amount of exposure to the people in the car of left over dust (after they totally clean the car) will be minimal. but it will be there.
i doubt that any serious health issues will arise from long term exposure......remember the car will be super cleaned because they know you are concerned about it....so they will take extra caution. this means what ever is left over is very minimal

if they were doing any glass work.....there will be raw glass involved, you need to get to raw glass to get a good bond...it is the raw glass that concerns me.
glass likes skin......your wife will attest.

the other thing that screams red flag.....is the comment from the insurance agent that they might not be willing to insure the car with full liability.
this has deep ramifications.

as mentioned earlier.....all the dust will never come out...(unless everything is replaced)

but here is how its going to play out......(as oops shines his crystal ball)
the shop will double clean the car and make it look fantastic and smell good. you wont see a speck of dust......they know that the insurance adjuster will be there looking at the car, so they have a lot to loose if it is not done right.
the adjuster will sign off on the car. because it will look new.

you take the car and dont know a thing.....
the admiral climbs in and you go for a scoot.......turn on the heater.....and kazam......its off to the dog house for you !

there is just no way to get all the stuff out....

what i would suggest during inspection, is to get a big honkin light....(incandescent bulb) and start hitting the seats.....turn on the heater and air cond....move the vents around........look in the light and see if you can see dust in the air.
then let it sit, for 10 mins and come back and do the white glove thing on the dash.

then let the adjustor make up his mind.

if he thinks the car cannot be insured.....they owe you a new car.

if its good....its good.

but this one will have to run its course.......let them do their due diligence.

 

[WIMUSKY]

Re: Off to court I guess...

Re: Off to court I guess...

Had the meeting and it went well. The dealer is going to do their best to make it right (cleaning) and when done I and the adjuster will take a look at the results. Can't be any more fair than that.

See, you might have got all worked up/stressed out for nothing...... That's ok, I do the same thing all the time. Wish I could change that habit........

 

[Fishing Dude too]

Re: Off to court I guess...

Re: Off to court I guess...

Windgates. All I have to say.

 

[NetDoc]

Re: Off to court I guess...

Re: Off to court I guess...

what i would suggest during inspection, is to get a big honkin light....(incandescent bulb)

Actually, an Ultra-Violet light would actually reveal more dust and glass. Oils too!

 

[NetDoc]

Re: Off to court I guess...

Re: Off to court I guess...

My pickiest customers were my very best. I learned from each and every one of them and all of my customers benefited from it. In the end, I was the biggest beneficiary as my desire to win them over became widely known. Rather than being lazy or shortsighted, I courted them to bring their cars into my shop so that I could reap the rewards of dealing with picky people. No one seems to like to do preventive maintenance items quite like a picky person. Those are the most profitable services a shop can offer. Give me picky people any time.

 

[NetDoc]

Re: Off to court I guess...

Re: Off to court I guess...

In this case there isn't even an issue of money, I've told them to spend what it takes to make it right.

Bubba,

That was my point. Picky people PAY handsomely to be accommodated. For business people, you're the best thing to walk into a shop. I don't mean that in a mean way. I loved picky people. One of my pickier customers commented that in over 20 years of me working on his cars that he had never had to be towed in. Not once! Preventive maintenance works. Its a small price to be kept off the side of the road.

People often comment on how meticulously I maintain my Scuba Gear. That's my life on the line underwater. Why wouldn't I be meticulous?! I polish internal parts where most Scuba Techs think I am wasting time. Its my time to waste and they breathe so much better! While I think you went a bit overboard on the dust issue, your decision to make the car just right for you is a great decision. Bravo!

 

[DECK SWABBER 58]

Re: Off to court I guess...

Re: Off to court I guess...

Their has been a lot of talk about insurance. If this is not resolved to your satisfaction are you relying on "regular" full cov. auto insurance?
That car is worth way more then a normal 02 Camaro. Do you have
"Stated Value" collector car insurance on it?

I hope everything works out and you get to keep it.
Having been in auto repair most of my life I really hate hearing stories like this. And at a GM dealer no less!

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: Off to court I guess...

Re: Off to court I guess...

Deck, you are correct, if the car is truly "damaged" by the shop, it would be an additional comprehensive claim. Good catch on your part.

I had already sent Bubba a private message about it, and he understands that too.

It's also covered under the repair shop's Garage Keepers policy, which is confusing to explain, but would provide coverage.