no steering at high speed!!

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Removing helm/steering cable help!

Re: Removing helm/steering cable help!

These wheels and shafts are what is called a locking taper. You can not simply pull or pry it off. You MUST put a wedge under the steering wheel and pry it up THEN while applying upward prying force, smack the shaft a couple of good ones with a heavy hammer. At this point, since you are replacing the helm, you don't care if you mess up the threads on the shaft BUT: If you wanted to save the helm, you would screw on a 1/2 X 20 nut so it is only about one thread above the shaft.

Once the steering wheel is off, there are usually two screws securing the plastic trim cover to the dash. Under the trim cover is a steel plate secured to the dash with four bolts and the helm is bolted to it with three.

Most of these inexpensive wheels are secured with a woodruff key. The key is usually NOT stainless so even though you may not see corrosion, there may be hidden rust. If that is the case, the wheel will fight you all the way off.

 

[jhunstone]

Re: Removing helm/steering cable help!

Re: Removing helm/steering cable help!

Thanks for all the helpful suggestions,

I gave it a bash with a hammer and it eventually popped off.

I had to grind the 3 screws holding the helm due to the amount of rust.

The bolt/nut ends i cut off have now melted holes in my marine carpet...

Oh well. This is going to be one of those jobs were EVERYTHING goes wrong.

Thanks again for the assistance.

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: Removing helm/steering cable help!

Re: Removing helm/steering cable help!

look at the bright side... the last guy (removed the nut) failed but you have succeeded...

on the carpet... I have had fair luck taking a wrench or other metal object and "scratching" at a melted spot... OFTEN it will make the damage disappear about 80% so that it is much less noticeable .

 

[QC]

Re: Steering Wheel not straight

Re: Steering Wheel not straight

OK, I will try the rotate the steering wheel back and forth to see if that helps.

Any other responses as to whether or not this is likely related to the repair performed?

Yeah, I'll chime in. Probably won't help though . . .

Take along a passenger, have them sit on port side of the boat. Note steering wheel position when going straight, no wind, no current. Then have them sit on your lap. Note steering wheel position when going straight, no wind, no current. Then throw them out. Note steering wheel position when going straight, no wind, no current. Then repeat with different wind directions and different currents. Note steering wheel position when going straight. The point is, every single situation will result in a slightly different steering position. Change props, could change it. Change trim tab position, will change it. Change trim and that could change steering position. Speed, could change steering position. I don't know how I would decide what condition I'd want my wheel "straight" for

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: Steering Wheel not straight

Re: Steering Wheel not straight

If the steering cylinder is centered with the helm and you pull the wheel to straighten the cosmetics;
You will have more steering to one side than the other.

Example:
Assume a steering cylinder that has exactly 2 turns stop-to-stop. One full turn left and one full turn right.
You currently go straight with the wheel at 2:00.
That means you currently have 10 hours of right turn available but 14 hours of left.
If you pull the steering wheel to make it look straight, you will still have 10 right and 14 left.

If you center the wheel to 12:00 and then adjust the steering linkage at the engine end, you will have 12 left and 12 right.
Adjusting 2 hours out of the steering linkage at the engine could be as little as 1/4".

You should have the same number of turns left and right.
1-3/4? ... 2-1/2? What ever it is; it should be the same each direction.
Confirm that the steering wheel is off center before you pull the wheel.

Fix the real problem, not the symptom.

 

[Road Head]

Please help find a steering cable

Hi everyone,

I need a new steering cable. Mine if 15' long, and appears to be pretty standard, it is off a 1996 pontoon boat with a 1996 90 hp Honda. No surprise, there is not a single identifying mark on it, no numbers, no manufacturer, nothing. The one end is the typical 3/4 solid shaft, the other end is roughly 15" of threaded looking cable, so it appears that it was made before the "quick disconnect" systems.

I have a nice tilt steering wheel, again, no surprise, not a single identifying anything on the rotary box in the helm. Id like to keep the tilt for sure, it is all in great shape. The rotary box itself is old, and I wouldnt mind replacing and just buying an entire kit (rotary box and cable), but Im not sure what will work with the tilt stuff.

At the minimum, I need to replace the cable. Could someone please point me to exactly what I need? There are about a bazillion of these things from just as many retailers. I would be thrilled with a link to something here on iboats or a part number.

If somebody has enough knowledge about the tilt stuff to point me in the direction of a new rotary box and cable that will work with it, that would be great too.

I apologize I cant get pics, but basically, the grey rotary box I have seems to have a truncated steering shaft. It is basically a little square with a hole in it, and this little square goes into the end of the tilt shaft, and the tilt shaft is what actually bolts to the steering wheel. All the pics I have seen of new rotary boxes have a full shaft, and seems like the steering wheel bolts directly to it, which would in no way work with my tilt steering.

Thank you!

 

[MH Hawker]

Re: Please help find a steering cable

Re: Please help find a steering cable

It is often simpler to replace all of it and be done with it, Trying to find parts that match up is a royal pain and often cant be done. That would be a helm kit and a new steering wheel and you can get those right here through iboats,

 

[roscoe]

Re: Please help find a steering cable

Re: Please help find a steering cable

There must be a manufacturers mark on the helm unit somewhere.
Haven't seen one since the 70's that didn't have a name on it.

Odds are, a QC II cable with the threaded adaptor will fit.
I have used a Teleflex QC II cable with rotary helms as old as 1971.

Teleflex QC II Steering Cable - iboats

If the web site checkout system allows for additional shipping instructions, tell them to wrap ALL sides of the box with tape, as these boxes often split at the seams, and the adaptor will fall out and get lost in the UPS (universal package shredders) truck.

 

[Road Head]

Re: Please help find a steering cable

Re: Please help find a steering cable

Thanks roscoe, that is exactly what I needed. I managed to get some pics. I need the cable for sure, but if possible, and could find a helm that mates up to my tilt steering shaft, Id be a happy boater.

 

[tinmanchris]

Steering, planing and kicker questions

So I have my first boat and have some rather stupid questions. I tried search the forums for answers but couldn't find what I am looking for...

My Boat:
Run-a-bout style
1971 Mercury 115HP w/ Hydrofoil
1997 Mercury 8HP

1. Steering - My boat tends to want to go to the right when I left go of the steering wheel which I find very dangerous. I have to keep my hands on the steering wheel at all times to prevent it from turning sharply. Is there anything I can do to make it more like a car? Is this how boats are supposed to be steered?
2. I have a kicker motor that's 8HP which I can't pull it out enough where it's not in the water. Could that be causing the steering issue? Can I leave it in the water completely?
3. Do I need to add a steering link to both motors to make sure they are pointing in the same direction (even when only operating the main motor)?
4. I also have a broken skeg on the main motor. Does that cause the steering torque or steering issues? I plan to get it fixed later this season.
5. At high speeds it seems that the propeller is out of the water. Does that mean I need to make trim adjustments or is this normal? It seems like it's inefficient speed for how high the motor speed is going.

Thanks in advance!

 

[blackhawk180]

Re: Steering, planing and kicker questions

Re: Steering, planing and kicker questions

OK, I'll take a shot at it.
As for steering, I wouldn't make any changes until I fixes the skeg and retest.
If the kicker does not come all the way out of the water, we need a pic or two to be of any help. I would NOT leave it down while running. That just asking for more problems.
If the prop is out of the water at high speed.... well, that's bad too. More pics, please. It could be trim (possible), it could be mounted too high (maybe) and it could be a bunch of other things that we can't figure without seeing where the anti-ventilation plate is in relation to the keel.
You can add a steering link but that's really only for trolling. I remove mine while underway so I don't have to turn the kicker and the main at the same time which is especially problematic while docking.
We can help with your problems but a bunch of pics would help the most at this point.

 

[tinmanchris]

Re: Steering, planing and kicker questions

Re: Steering, planing and kicker questions

OK, I'll take a shot at it.
As for steering, I wouldn't make any changes until I fixes the skeg and retest.
If the kicker does not come all the way out of the water, we need a pic or two to be of any help. I would NOT leave it down while running. That just asking for more problems.
If the prop is out of the water at high speed.... well, that's bad too. More pics, please. It could be trim (possible), it could be mounted too high (maybe) and it could be a bunch of other things that we can't figure without seeing where the anti-ventilation plate is in relation to the keel.
You can add a steering link but that's really only for trolling. I remove mine while underway so I don't have to turn the kicker and the main at the same time which is especially problematic while docking.
We can help with your problems but a bunch of pics would help the most at this point.

I'll go take some pictures when I get home!

 

[tinmanchris]

Re: Steering, planing and kicker questions

Re: Steering, planing and kicker questions



Let me know any other pictures you need me to take.

 

[tinmanchris]

Re: Steering, planing and kicker questions

Re: Steering, planing and kicker questions

So I looked at that kicker bracket and there is no way I can get that kicker out of the water. I'm going to look for some better kicker brackets that hopefully have some assistance with raising it up.

I've ordered a skeg guard to fix the skeg for this motor. Will let everyone know if it helps with steering and control.

Feel free to shout out any other ideas

 

[blackhawk180]

Re: Steering, planing and kicker questions

Re: Steering, planing and kicker questions

I think you're on the right track, tinman and thanks for the pics. There are quite a few commercially available kicker brackets (Garelick and Panther to name a few) that will solve the problem of getting the motor completely out of the water and assist in lifting as well. The other challenge might be connecting a steering link between the main and the kicker if they are not in the same plane but that too can be overcome with some custom link brackets (that's what I had to do on mine). That skeg busted off a lot higher than I thought. I'm not sure you won't have to replace the whole assembly at some point but if you can properly mount the skeg guard, it should help considerably.
I had to go with a custom bracket for my kicker but am fortunate to fish with a really good fabricator. Here's what he came up with for my problem.


Here's

 

[tinmanchris]

Re: Steering, planing and kicker questions

Re: Steering, planing and kicker questions

Just wanted to let people know that I installed a new skeg and a kicker bracket that raises up and down. Both were a pain to install but I got the job done. Had to buy a bit that can drill through metal to get the skeg guard in.

Will be taking it to the lake this Sunday so hopefully it resolves some issues. I'll post updates!

Pics (cause everyone LOVES pics)

 

[blackhawk180]

Re: Steering, planing and kicker questions

Re: Steering, planing and kicker questions

Thanks for the pics, tinman. Very helpful. That kicker bracket "should" let you get the motor all the way out of the water. The skeg will help but don't count on it to eliminate the problem completely. When I trim my boat perfectly and the RPMs are correct, it steers itself. But I can easily make it behave like yours by changing the trim or RPM as there are way more variables with a boat than a car. I'm not sure you will be able to stop it completely but if anyone has a secret, I'm all ears.

 

[batman99]

Re: Which Steering System to Choose??

Re: Which Steering System to Choose??

.

From what I've learned so far….

- The Rotary steering system has 3 contact gears instead of a worm type gear. Thus, it takes longer to wear out.
- The Rotary steering system takes 8" (or so) for its large cable loop. Thus, need space under the dash.
- The cost of upgrading from Rack and Pinion to Rotary steering is very little increase (assume one has space under the dash)

- The Rack & Pinion (R&P) uses 1 x worm gear in a track and being only one contact point (instead of 3), it does wear out faster. Was reading that R&P has lifespan of 6-8 years. Especially if boat is used often and it has a heavy weight motor to push/pull back and forth..
- Both Rotary and R&P are often single cable (for < 100 HPs) and being a single cable, it doesn't have adjustments. The cable wears inside the cable casing and over time, the cable becomes loose (even when both end points are firmly seated.
- Steering with "double" cables can be adjusted (to remove slop) but motor must be setup for dual cables. If your boat has dual cable brackets, upgrade to dual cable setup. I hear they can be adjusted for ZERO slack. And, re-adjusted with slack/slop starts to appear.

For a boat, was told the NFB (None Feed Back) rated system in either Rotary or R&P system is the best. re: With NFB system, you steer the motor. The motor doesn't steer you (because all motors pull from one side or the other).

For steering turn ratio, some folks love 3 turns and some folks love 4.2 turns. If you like its turning ratio now, simply keep the same ratio. Some folks like different size steering wheels the best. For me, I like small size wheel with fine control of 4.2 turns (especially for my boat's heavy weight motor).

When replacing the cable (R&P or Rotary system), its recommended to change the Helm (aka: gear box) at same time as well. Especially with R&P steering system (where its worm gear wears out fast as well). However, one can buy "only the cable" from UFlex company. Before buying, do double check were your current steering is worn out. If only the cable, then only buy the cable (from UFlex company). If you plan to keep your boat for many years, I'd replace both at same time.

Teleflex is maker of both Rotary and Rack/Pinion systems. Teleflex don't sell "only the cable". They want their customers to buy complete set. Uflex company sells individual parts and if needed, only the cable. Or, only the Helm. And, they sell complete packages as well. Was reading that some folks like UFlex company better. When comparing both packages, I see UFlex company is lower prices as well. Both brands are sold by iboats online store. re: http://www.iboats.com/Boat-Steering...7908839--session_id.998061917--view_id.217122
Note: Surf online store to see pictures of each Rotary or R&P system as well.

For your boat (used for occasional usage??), suggest replacing "same as factory". Same as factory bolts right in as well. And if you plan to keep boat for a 6+ years, then investigate the better Rotary system (assume room under its dash for its cable loop). If one upgrades to Rotary, there might be some "make fit" adjustments. Each boat is different under the dash.

For my 1996 boat (that needs new steering system as well), I'm thinking same factory R&P replacement package (re: Helm and cable). And, I'm thinking of removing its current Tilt Steering - since the joints in its Tilt area are loose as well. Back to basics of simple steering controls. And in 6-8 years, sell my current 1996 boat and replace with must better / newer age boat - possibly with factory dual cable steering.

Hope this helps…

 

[eastont]

Re: Carver 3607 Steering

Re: Carver 3607 Steering

Further to this situation, I am still without steering.

During a 2 week trip I started seeing fluid leak from the helm under the steering wheel. Soon the steering lost it's air pressure and I was back to no steering. The steering wheel spun like a roulette wheel.

After replacing the seal kit, the mechanic still cannot bleed the system and now thinks that the helm unit needs replacing....I'm not so sure.

Here are the particulars:
1989 Carver 3607 dual 8.2 l Blue Water Merc's. Steering unit is a Hynautic H-50 with port, starboard and return hoses connected to a Reservalve located under the aft cabin bed.

 

[alldodge]

Re: Ive tried other forms but no luck steering help

Re: Ive tried other forms but no luck steering help

Most steering cables just loop around the steering gear box. There should be a big nut on one end which is loosened, and then the cable is pulled out with the housing as the steering wheel is turned. To install the new cable just reverse the process. The cable isn't so much the issue, the cable must match the gearing on the steering gear box. Look for info on the steering wheel gearing and find a cable which matches it.