Nitrogen in tires

[Brewman61]

Re: Nitrogen in tires

Mostly it's just another profit center for the tire shop. That is from a friend of mine who works at the local tire shop. Disposal fees, balancing, road hazzard, now nitrogen. The tires themselves have relatively little profit- it's but the add on stuff is where they make the bucks.
Read the small print in some chain auto service ads. They even make a profit on the hazmat disposal fees we're charged.
Last set of tires I got with the truck, they just gave me the nitrogen for free. Whoopee. So far I haven't needed to top off the tires, which is a good thing, since now I have to go to the tire shops to have that done, lest I get some oxygen in there.


Maybe a good idea for certain high performance applications.

 

[Angrywasp]

Re: Nitrogen in tires

Have it in the wife's Camaro (stealership refills them for free) but my truck gets regular air. If it's good enough for my lungs chances are it's good enough for my tires.

 

[sasto]

Re: Nitrogen in tires

Worth it? Not for most. The money I spent on nitrogen? Not for most either. A hoax? Not for me.

As I mentioned I am anal about air in my tires. I keep my tires aired at 35#.....and I mean 35 only. I have an onboard tire pressure monitor which makes me more anal. Before the nitrogen I could leave the house with 35# in each tire. After traveling several miles on the Florida hot pavement, the tire pressures can reach 40#. With the nitrogen they remain a consistant 35#.

Will this prolong the life of my tires? Maybe not. Will this make me comfortable and prolong my anal lifestyle? Probably so.

 

[waterinthefuel]

Re: Nitrogen in tires

Worth it? Not for most. The money I spent on nitrogen? Not for most either. A hoax? Not for me.

As I mentioned I am anal about air in my tires. I keep my tires aired at 35#.....and I mean 35 only. I have an onboard tire pressure monitor which makes me more anal. Before the nitrogen I could leave the house with 35# in each tire. After traveling several miles on the Florida hot pavement, the tire pressures can reach 40#. With the nitrogen they remain a consistant 35#.

Will this prolong the life of my tires? Maybe not. Will this make me comfortable and prolong my anal lifestyle? Probably so.

The problem with that is, the tire manufacturer takes into consideration the tire pressure increasing as you drive in hot weather on hot pavement. Using nitrogen keeps the tire at the lower pressure which isn't what the manufacturer would want. If it goes up to 40 on a hot day with air, I'd say inflate them to 40 with nitrogen. They're designed to run at the higher pressure caused by heat buildup, that's why its called "cold tire pressure."

I love when people think they're smarter than the tire manufacturers themselves.

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Nitrogen in tires

The problem with that is, the tire manufacturer takes into consideration the tire pressure increasing as you drive in hot weather on hot pavement. Using nitrogen keeps the tire at the lower pressure which isn't what the manufacturer would want. If it goes up to 40 on a hot day with air, I'd say inflate them to 40 with nitrogen. They're designed to run at the higher pressure caused by heat buildup, that's why its called "cold tire pressure."

I love when people think they're smarter than the tire manufacturers themselves.

You might want to reread that post.

There was no mention of "tire manufacturers" or that "he knows better"....far from it; in fact he acknowledged that he is anal about his tires, and that's just how he rolls. No preaching at all....

 

[sasto]

Re: Nitrogen in tires

The problem with that is, the tire manufacturer takes into consideration the tire pressure increasing as you drive in hot weather on hot pavement. Using nitrogen keeps the tire at the lower pressure which isn't what the manufacturer would want. If it goes up to 40 on a hot day with air, I'd say inflate them to 40 with nitrogen. They're designed to run at the higher pressure caused by heat buildup, that's why its called "cold tire pressure."

I love when people think they're smarter than the tire manufacturers themselves.

Tire pressures are determined by the auto manufacturer, not the tire manufacturer. Using the recommended tire pressures located on drivers door is what I go by. 32lbs is what is recommended for my vehicle.

 

[Brewman61]

Re: Nitrogen in tires

Tire manufacturers put the maximum recommended pressure on the casing of the tire. Auto makers put the suggested tire pressure on the door jamb.
That pressure may be different than what's stamped in the tire. The auto makers suggested pressure is what the car's handling characteristics, etc... are designed for. Running at max psi may somewhat increase MPG's but possibly sacrifice handling, depending on the car.

 

[waterinthefuel]

Re: Nitrogen in tires

Tire pressures are determined by the auto manufacturer, not the tire manufacturer. Using the recommended tire pressures located on drivers door is what I go by. 32lbs is what is recommended for my vehicle.

Correction: Tire pressures are determined by the auto manufacturer using ONE SPECIFIC MAKE, MODEL AND BRAND OF TIRE.

Well, unless you replace the tires on your vehicle with the exact same make, model and style of tire that came with it from the factory, or you're still running the factory original tires, I would run what's on the sidewall. The door jam pressure is put there to tell you what pressure to run in the tires that are installed at the factory. Once those are gone, you can remove that sticker because it's no longer valid unless you replace it with an exact replacement which most people do not. Think about it.....you get street tires on it from the factory but change to wooly booger big fat *** mud tires, you think your little door sticker is applies to both completely different brand, make a model of tire? I don't think so! My theory is that the manufacturer of the tire knows more about their tire than the manufacturer of the car does.

Not every tire is designed to run with the same pressure so blindly using what's on the door can spell trouble. For example, my truck is so old it says 35 I think. The tires I have on there can go to 44psi. If I run them at 35, they look almost flat. The truck is 14 years old. You have to think a little bit with stuff like this. In 14 years the technology and makeup of the tire itself have changed drastically, especially between different brands of tires. If you put what is on the TIRE SIDEWALL you can't go wrong, because at full weight, the tire is designed to run at that psi. You start trying to be an engineer and out think the tire manufacturers and run your tires 9psi below recommended pressure you start having heat buildup, increased tire wear, increased chance of rim damage and decreased fuel mileage. But hey, do what you want. It's your money!

Edited to add: I am an airplane mechanic. For aircraft, you put in the tire what the airplane maintenance manual tells you to put. However, you are limited to one, MAYBE 2 if you're lucky, different types of tires that can be legally installed on that plane. Well, if cars had only 1 type of tire that could be installed, then of course use the door sticker or manual. But cars have no limits, any tire that fits the rim can be installed, there is no FAA telling you that ONLY tire 123x13x10 Bridgestone aviation tire part number 1234567 can be used. So you need to consult the tire sidewall, not the door sticker, for any aftermarket tires installed.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Nitrogen in tires

Worth it? Not for most. The money I spent on nitrogen? Not for most either. A hoax? Not for me.

As I mentioned I am anal about air in my tires. I keep my tires aired at 35#.....and I mean 35 only. I have an onboard tire pressure monitor which makes me more anal. Before the nitrogen I could leave the house with 35# in each tire. After traveling several miles on the Florida hot pavement, the tire pressures can reach 40#. With the nitrogen they remain a consistant 35#.

You should do a test to put plain air in one of your tires tire and leave the nitrogen in the other. My guess would be that it would make zero difference. By the ideal gas law, a gas expands equally with temperature no matter what type of gas it is be it nitrogen, oxygen or water(in a vapor state) for that matter.

Basically, its a way to make more money.

The only benefit the proponents say is that nitrogen will seep out of the tire slower. All the other BS you hear about maintaining pressure over temperature are from people that don't understand the physics of gasses.

Read this link which is from one of the proponents. The benefits are because of "better tire pressure retention"
http://www.getnitrogen.org/


Again...its only for retention
http://www.getnitrogen.org/pdf/MichelinNitrogenTechBulletin.pdf
http://www.getnitrogen.org/pdf/GoodyearSupportsNitrogen.pdf


Its snake air!

 

[sasto]

Re: Nitrogen in tires

I still don't get it.

After going thru Bruce's web sites I found this:

Less inflation pressure loss.
Less inflation pressure fluctuation with heat.
Reduced wheel corrosion.
Longer tread life.

http://www.getnitrogen.org/pdf/Bridgestone.pdf

I realize we can find anything on the internet regarding this subject, for or against. But this supports my claim about nitro. I don't mind a debate, but this is just proving my point.

Did I win anything?

 

[sasto]

Re: Nitrogen in tires

. But hey, do what you want. It's your money!

QUOTE]

Correct, Waterinthefuel.

As I mentioned earlier.. it is not for everybody. I had 2 choices when I researched nitrogen. I can put $.75 in the machine across the street every couple of weeks..or...I can stop at the tire store miles away every month or so whenever I pass it. Over a 4 year period I think I will find it to be a savings. It's only been 8 months since the nitrogen has been in the new tires, but so far it fits me well.

 

[Brewman61]

Re: Nitrogen in tires

. But hey, do what you want. It's your money!

QUOTE]

Correct, Waterinthefuel.

As I mentioned earlier.. it is not for everybody. I had 2 choices when I researched nitrogen. I can put $.75 in the machine across the street every couple of weeks..or...I can stop at the tire store miles away every month or so whenever I pass it. Over a 4 year period I think I will find it to be a savings. It's only been 8 months since the nitrogen has been in the new tires, but so far it fits me well.

You still have to pay for air for filling tires? That experiment must have flopped big time around here, because nobody is charging for air anymore.
My air compressor makes it about as convenient as it gets to top off the tires.

But to your point, the did give me free N2 on the truck, and I haven't had to top it off since they put it in, at least 6 months, maybe even a year ago.

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Nitrogen in tires

. But hey, do what you want. It's your money!

QUOTE]

Correct, Waterinthefuel.

As I mentioned earlier.. it is not for everybody. I had 2 choices when I researched nitrogen. I can put $.75 in the machine across the street every couple of weeks..or...I can stop at the tire store miles away every month or so whenever I pass it. Over a 4 year period I think I will find it to be a savings. It's only been 8 months since the nitrogen has been in the new tires, but so far it fits me well.

Hey, if it works for you, that's all that matters...!!

Any pressure stability improvement would be the result of the absence of water/water vapour....and dry air would result in the same thing.

I'll buy the theory that the larger N2 molecule does not leak out through the rubber tire wall as easily as the O2.
But as far as
"Less inflation pressure fluctuation with heat.", not possible.
As Bruce says, obeying the gas laws is not optional...

I would argue that some of the spectacular claims are self-fulfilling prophesies as people who have actually filled with N2 end up being more diligent about ongoing checks etc....and may even drive in a more fuel friendly way....and that is never bad.


That said, I think this falls in with the synthetic oil debate, and there are definite benefits possible, "but individual results may vary"....

And as far as tire pressure goes, I have never seen a car tire (at least in Canada) that had a pressure rec on it.....e.g. my current Yokohama snow tires...(oh, Sasto... in some places you have to put on different tires for the winter....you may not be aware, but just one of those great Canadian traditions you are missing out on....) ) say "inflate to recommended pressure" .

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Nitrogen in tires

But this supports my claim about nitro.

Curious...did you ever take a chemistry class in either high school or college? Ever hear of the ideal gas law? How is nitrogen all of a sudden not following the laws of physics for gasses?

The only way the tire pressure would increase with normal air is if there was liquid water in the tire already. At least on my compressor at home, I have a water seperator which is preceded by a long length of hose. I don't want water in my air tools let alone my tires.

As far as the retention, it is really slight. here is Consumers Reports tests.
http://blogs.consumerreports.org/cars/2007/10/tires-nitrogen-.html

 

[sasto]

Re: Nitrogen in tires

Hey, if it works for you, that's all that matters...!!

And as far as tire pressure goes, I have never seen a car tire (at least in Canada) that had a pressure rec on it.....e.g. my current Yokohama snow tires...(oh, Sasto... in some places you have to put on different tires for the winter....you may not be aware, but just one of those great Canadian traditions you are missing out on....) ) say "inflate to recommended pressure" .

Hi Frank, I'm not trying to talk anybody into nitrogen in their tires. Only sharing my results and and expierence.

The auto in question is an Escalade, 22" rims, Bridgestone tires. I can monitor tire pressures on my dash, I can check tire pressures at anytime. If I didn't have the onboard monitor, I probably wouldn't know the difference. I do though.

Maybe some day I will get to expierence that great Canadian tradition, just not today.

 

[BuzzStPoint]

Re: Nitrogen in tires

The way I see it..

Air from the air compressor has been doing a great job for a long time... Why switch?

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Nitrogen in tires

In case you didn't know, GMs spec on the on board tire monitors are ? 4 PSI. They aren't very accurate. Their purpose in life was to show tire pressure drops of 25% so there was never a need for exact accuracy.

 

[sasto]

Re: Nitrogen in tires

Curious...did you ever take a chemistry class

As far as the retention, it is really slight. here is Consumers Reports tests.
http://blogs.consumerreports.org/cars/2007/10/tires-nitrogen-.html

Chemestry class? I can't remember if I took one or not....let alone know what I learned!

I read that info from this website awhile back. I was wondering if you were going to come across it. Guess you did.

I still do what I do...and am not harming anybody or my equipment. I've spent my money on other stupid things that nobody else would either. I have no regrets...Good day!

 

[Mark42]

Re: Nitrogen in tires

Correction: Tire pressures are determined by the auto manufacturer using ONE SPECIFIC MAKE, MODEL AND BRAND OF TIRE.

Well, unless you replace the tires on your vehicle with the exact same make, model and style of tire that came with it from the factory, or you're still running the factory original tires, I would run what's on the sidewall. The door jam pressure is put there to tell you what pressure to run in the tires that are installed at the factory. Once those are gone, you can remove that sticker because it's no longer valid unless you replace it with an exact replacement which most people do not. Think about it.....you get street tires on it from the factory but change to wooly booger big fat *** mud tires, you think your little door sticker is applies to both completely different brand, make a model of tire? I don't think so! My theory is that the manufacturer of the tire knows more about their tire than the manufacturer of the car does.

Not every tire is designed to run with the same pressure so blindly using what's on the door can spell trouble. For example, my truck is so old it says 35 I think. The tires I have on there can go to 44psi. If I run them at 35, they look almost flat. The truck is 14 years old. You have to think a little bit with stuff like this. In 14 years the technology and makeup of the tire itself have changed drastically, especially between different brands of tires. If you put what is on the TIRE SIDEWALL you can't go wrong, because at full weight, the tire is designed to run at that psi. You start trying to be an engineer and out think the tire manufacturers and run your tires 9psi below recommended pressure you start having heat buildup, increased tire wear, increased chance of rim damage and decreased fuel mileage. But hey, do what you want. It's your money!......

.

For a tire to perform well, it needs to be inflated to the point where the PSI will support the vehicle weight for the tire patch on the ground (aka its footprint). If you measure the square inches of tire patch, multiply it by the recommended PSI, you will find its nearly the same as the weight one wheel will support on the car. That is basically where the tire pressure on the door jamb comes from. Its about the same for any brand tire in the same size. Running the tire at its max pressure is a good way of wearing out the center of the tire before the edge, when the door jamb pressure is much less than the tires max pressure. Of course, all cars and tires are different, so a little experimentation is needed.

 

[lncoop]

Re: Nitrogen in tires

I use helium... decreases vehicle weight and saves 3-4 mpg. But I just have to remember to add an extra sand bag for the winter.



Yes.... I tried hydrogen, but.... oh, the humanity.

I may put on over-sized helium filled tires and see if my truck then drives like the lunar rover. Can't see how it wouldn't work.

I'm a Flubber man myself. Don't have to worry about what's in the tires since I only use them for taking off and landing.