New to Me Boat - Need Help

[tsnipes]

So, I picked up this 16' 1975 Wellcraft the other day from a young guy who was tired of trying to figure it out. He told me he had it on the water in April, but it ran rough. He has replaced pretty much everything in the ignition system except the distributor itself. He said he replaced the points, plugs, wires, cap, rotor, alternator and coil. Now it will not start at all. He said he took it to a mechanic that he knows and was told that the distributor needs to be replaced. I pulled the cap off and the insides of the distributor look new and it has no play in it. A mechanic that I spoke to said that he did not think it was the distributor unless it was just really sloppy and had a lot of play in it. I tend to agree with him, as long as it spins and has spark to send out to the plugs, it should be ok

I am completely new to inboards, so I have been reading the posts to try to figure it out. I read through the sticky's and did some preliminary troubleshooting and I do not seem to have anything coming out of the coil. I am not sure that the P/O has not done some messing around with the wiring. One thing that he did was bypass the mechanical fuel pump and rigged up an electric one, which he had connected to the + terminal on the coil. The mechanic I spoke to said this could cause interference in the firing.

I have attached some pics of the boat along with the wiring around the coil/distributor area and I hope that some of you can spot what might be wrong with the wiring, if there is anything wrong. I also found the attached wiring diagram in a post and was hoping maybe someone can tell me if it is the correct one for this engine.

The serial number from the plate on the engine is 4187035. I am assuming that it is the original engine for the boat, which would make it a 1975 model.

Also, if someone can maybe tell me the model of the boat, I would appreciate it. If not, I will post separately in the Wellcraft forum.

Thanks in advance for your assistance.View attachment 140 wiring.pdf

 

[tsnipes]

Re: New to Me Boat - Need Help

View attachment 205740View attachment 205739View attachment 205735A couple more pics.

 

[Bt Doctur]

Re: New to Me Boat - Need Help

that diagram should work ok. Is there 12v at the + side of the coil with the key "on" .heres the correct one

 

[Bt Doctur]

Re: New to Me Boat - Need Help

hooking it up to the coil wont work because of the resistance wire to the coil.

 

[tsnipes]

Re: New to Me Boat - Need Help

One more thing, I do have voltage to the + terminal on the coil, but I am not sure if it is the correct voltage. I forgot to take my meter with me when I went to take the pics earlier, but I did have a test light. I also tried to view the sticky about troubleshooting a points ignition system, but I had some trouble getting it to open. I will keep trying, as I know that the best way to troubleshoot is to go about it in a logical manner and rule out one thing at a time as a possibility.

 

[Bt Doctur]

Re: New to Me Boat - Need Help

make sure there is power , then remove all the wires on the negative side of the coil except the one going to the dist. those are the tach feed and shift interupter .both of witch can cause no spark.Do you understand how points work?
http://www.boatfix.com/merc/Servmanl/13/13B4R2.PDF

 

[tsnipes]

Re: New to Me Boat - Need Help

Thanks for the correct diagram. It looks like the wiring might be ok, even though the colors do not match up.

 

[tsnipes]

Re: New to Me Boat - Need Help

I have limited knowledge of how a points ignition system works. I tried to read the sticky but could not get it to open. I will read the link that you sent before attempting any further troubleshooting. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

 

[tsnipes]

Re: New to Me Boat - Need Help

make sure there is power , then remove all the wires on the negative side of the coil except the one going to the dist. those are the tach feed and shift interupter .both of witch can cause no spark.Do you understand how points work?
http://www.boatfix.com/merc/Servmanl/13/13B4R2.PDF

I finally got the sticky to open and I do have an understanding of how the points work. I read the sticky and it served as a good refresher on it, but I believe I am ready to jump in and do some troubleshooting now.

 

[tsnipes]

Re: New to Me Boat - Need Help

Since I intend to do so at some point anyway, should I go ahead and buy the conversion kit and eliminate the points from the ignition system right now? Does this greatly improve the reliability?

Thanks.

 

[achris]

Re: New to Me Boat - Need Help

I'd troubleshoot and solve the problem BEFORE putting the electronic ignition conversion in. Just because it should make it easier without adding another 'unknown' to the mix..

One of the easiest tests is to remove all the wires from the negative side of the coil, put a single length of wire on it and touch it rapidly against the engine block. Each time you remove the wire from a good ground you should get a spark from the coil. That will prove (or not) the wiring to he coil, and the coil. Once you have those confirmed good it makes finding other problems a lot easier.

As BtDoc already said, get the fuel pump wire off the coil. The power to the positive side of the coil is through a current limiting resistance wire, and having the pump on there will do 3 things. One, make the wire hot as more power is being drawn though it than it was designed for, two, reduce the voltage available to the coil, resulting in a possible 'no spark' condition, and three, low voltage to the fuel pump, possibly causing it to not run.

Chris.....

 

[tsnipes]

Re: New to Me Boat - Need Help

Thanks, achris. I am going to get back over there to do some more troubleshooting tomorrow. From what I can tell, I am not getting anything from the coil, even though I was told it is new and it does look new. I have already removed the fuel pump wire from the coil + terminal on the advice of a mechanic I spoke to. I will try removing the wires from the - terminal and jumping a wire from it to the engine block.

Thanks for the advice. I will let you know what I find out.

 

[tsnipes]

Re: New to Me Boat - Need Help

OK, I am stuck again. I have been messing with the boat and I don't know what to do next.

I bought a new coil, just to see if that was the problem. I checked the voltage to the + terminal of the coil and have 12.66 volts (same as the reading across the battery terminals). When cranking, the voltage (with the resistance wire attached), fluctuated between 4.5 and 7 volts.

I removed all the wires from the - terminal of the coil and hooked up a jumper wire to it and grounded it to the block. I got pretty good spark when touching the wire to the block and removing it.

However, I am not getting any spark from the coil tower to the distributor. I thought the wire may have been bad because when I checked it with the ohmmeter, it was like an open circuit. But, I checked another wire from my brother in law's tractor and it read the same way. Is the core of these wires made of something that would cause this reading? When I check a piece of regular wire, it shows 0.3 ohms of resistance, the same as touching the leads together.

Any ideas where to check next would be greatly appreciated.

 

[achris]

Re: New to Me Boat - Need Help

OK, I am stuck again. I have been messing with the boat and I don't know what to do next.

I bought a new coil, just to see if that was the problem. I checked the voltage to the + terminal of the coil and have 12.66 volts (same as the reading across the battery terminals). When cranking, the voltage (with the resistance wire attached), fluctuated between 4.5 and 7 volts.

I removed all the wires from the - terminal of the coil and hooked up a jumper wire to it and grounded it to the block. I got pretty good spark when touching the wire to the block and removing it.

Is that a spark across a spark plug from the coil tower, or a spark from the wire you were touching to ground?

However, I am not getting any spark from the coil tower to the distributor. I thought the wire may have been bad because when I checked it with the ohmmeter, it was like an open circuit. But, I checked another wire from my brother in law's tractor and it read the same way. Is the core of these wires made of something that would cause this reading? When I check a piece of regular wire, it shows 0.3 ohms of resistance, the same as touching the leads together.

The typical resistance of a high tension lead is a few thousand ohms per foot, so to not read anything is not unusual. Except for wire leads of course.

Any ideas where to check next would be greatly appreciated.

It's sounding a bit like the resistance wire might be faulty. With the key ON, and the jumper wire (from coil -) grounded, what voltage are you reading on the + terminal of the coil? (Engine not cranking. Should be around 7)....

Next test... (will confirm wiring and resistance wire) run another jumper from the positive on the battery to positive on the coil. Do the same test of touching the jumper from the coil - to ground. This time, don't leave the grounding jumper on the ground for too long, the coil will get very hot very quickly. Just touch to ground and remove very quickly. You'll get quite a big spark from the grounding wire, but you need to be looking at a spark plug, attached to a high tension lead, laying on the engine block (good ground)...

Chris.....

 

[Bt Doctur]

Re: New to Me Boat - Need Help

if you removed all the wires and used a jumper fron the neg to ground and got spark ,that says the points are not opening or
the points are grounded .
spin the motor setting the point rubbing block on the high spot, and adjust for about .018 opening or the thickness of a paper matchbook.
Using an ohmmeter black to ground, red to wire going to the dist. spin motpr . meter should pulse with the opening and closing of the points. hook coil wire to dist and you`ll have spark.

 

[tsnipes]

Re: New to Me Boat - Need Help

Bt Doctur, you seem to be correct. I pulled the cap off the distributor and bumped the starter until the points were on the highest point of the distibutor cam and they do not appear to be opening at all.

I took a close look at the cam itself and it seems to be rounded more on a couple of the corners than it is on the others. Is it possible that the distributor cam is worn down and not functioning correctly? Seems like a long shot to me, but I know that the points not opening has to be the first thing to remedy.

I did not think to snap a pic of the cam to post, but I will get one tomorrow. Maybe someone on here can tell me if it looks excessively worn or not.

Thanks for all of the guidance this far. I am confident that I am narrowing down the problem and will be up and running soon.

 

[tsnipes]

Re: New to Me Boat - Need Help



Ok, I have attached a few pics of the inside of my distributor with the rotor removed. Can anyone tell me if the cam looks to be too rounded on the corners? It looks to me like one of the corners is rounded more than the others, but I am not sure.

Any help in spotting anything else that might be out of the norm would also be appreciated.

I look forward to getting this issue resolved before the end of the summer so I can enjoy at least a couple of outings before it gets too cold. Of course, I am in Florida, so I do have more boating weather left than some of you do. :joyous:

 

[achris]

Re: New to Me Boat - Need Help

It's likely replacing them with an electronic module will solve the problem...

Chris....

 

[tsnipes]

Re: New to Me Boat - Need Help

Thanks, Chris. Would that fix the issue with the rounded cam inside the distributor? After looking at the pics more, it is obvious to me that the cam is almost rounded instead of more square with somewhat rounded corners to open the points.

Any ideas where I can find pics of a similar distributor for comparison?

 

[tsnipes]

Re: New to Me Boat - Need Help

Would installing the Pertronix II and the matching FlameThrower coil work to resolve the issue of the points not opening, possibly due to the worn cam in the distributor? Thanks again.