New radio install issue thats stumping everyone who has looked at it

[NYBo]

Re: New radio install issue thats stumping everyone who has looked at it

Do the speakers have a common ground? Many head units require them to be separate.

 

[coolbri70]

Re: New radio install issue thats stumping everyone who has looked at it

what i dont get is, the old radio works, and a boombox will play out the speakers, i would try a bench test, hook directly to the speakers to avoid any wiring issues, sounds like you may have an external amp that clips when fed too much input, does the old stereo play if you bench test with other speakers if its low barely audible, then you know its low level outputs, meant to feed an amp

 

[eelnairb33]

Re: New radio install issue thats stumping everyone who has looked at it

Maybe the fact that your boat doesn't provide a ground plane, maybe the radio stops at different preselects but there simply isn't enough received power to bring the radio out of auto mute... Can you play a CD in it? If so that rules out the auto mute issue.

Actually the Kenwood will not play the cd, is the power to low to bring the radio out of auto mute as you call it.

 

[gm280]

Re: New radio install issue thats stumping everyone who has looked at it

Actually the Kenwood will not play the cd, is the power to low to bring the radio out of auto mute as you call it.

Okay let me try to explain the "Auto Mute" issue so everybody is on the same page. Long ago car stereos (and home units also) would simply allow anything through to the speakers even no stations would sound like snowy junk (for lack of a better term) to be heard in the speakers. So the manufacturers built their newer radios with a cut-off level (kind of like a squelch) to keep noise and non-stations from going through to the speakers. So unless you have enough received radio signal to noise ratio to get above that cut-off level, nothing will be heard in the speakers. It isn't some magic new option but a mere low signal to noise level cut-out circuit. So maybe even if you are stopping at stations, their received signals are not high enough in their signal to noise ratio to trigger sound output... That IS why I asked if it would play a CD. If the unit was able to play a CD then you know for certain the radio was the sole problem and that would be the received signal level too... When you think of an antenna, especially in a vehicle, the car acts like a ground plane for the received signal. But on a boat fiberglass doesn’t provide that same ground plane effect... JMHO!

 

[seabob4]

Re: New radio install issue thats stumping everyone who has looked at it

Time to hook this beetch up on the bench and see what she'll do. You already know this, but just to reiterate, the yellow lead MUST have 12V+ for the unit to work. Wire the speakers directly to the speaker leads (white, gray, green, and purple), pay particularly close attention to speaker polarity. The speaker leads with the black stripe are the negative leads. With "common" speaker wire, 18GA 2-conductor, one lead is copper in color, the other silver. I always use the silver colored lead as my negative. On the speakers themselves, the smaller of the spade terminals is the negative terminal...

 

[ngt]

Re: New radio install issue thats stumping everyone who has looked at it

Do the speakers have a common ground? Many head units require them to be separate.

the ground was my first thought

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: New radio install issue thats stumping everyone who has looked at it

...The Kenwood plays CDs but no sound, the Boss 612UA plugs into my MP3 and the EQ bumps that it is playing my music. No sound unless I reinstall the Clarion M3170 (the majical radio)

Actually the Kenwood will not play the CD, is the power to low to bring the radio out of auto mute as you call it.

Is what you are saying is that the Kenwood WILL play a CD,

the EQ indicates that it IS playing,
but there is NO Audio at the speakers?

Are you absolutely sure this system does NOT have and external amp that is not being enabled? Double sure?
Does the Magic Clarion Radio have a (Usually) Blue/White wire (Amp Enable) that connects to anything?

 

[seabob4]

Re: New radio install issue thats stumping everyone who has looked at it

Yes, blue/white stripe would be remote amp turn on, solid blue being power antenna. Being a 38 DA, I would guess there is an amp lurking somewhere. Check your mid-berth...

 

[eelnairb33]

Re: New radio install issue thats stumping everyone who has looked at it

Time to hook this beetch up on the bench and see what she'll do. You already know this, but just to reiterate, the yellow lead MUST have 12V+ for the unit to work. Wire the speakers directly to the speaker leads (white, gray, green, and purple), pay particularly close attention to speaker polarity. The speaker leads with the black stripe are the negative leads. With "common" speaker wire, 18GA 2-conductor, one lead is copper in color, the other silver. I always use the silver colored lead as my negative. On the speakers themselves, the smaller of the spade terminals is the negative terminal...

I pulled everythng out today but I have no time to bench test it today, I will be hooking it up in the morning. I had a boat specialist check it out this morning and he is stumped. Said he has to think on it and get back to me....

the ground was my first thought

How would I make sure the speakers are grounded on the boat? Why would the Clarion play over the speakers but no other radio with the same wires attached? I cant find the manual for the Clarion 3670RC to check its wiring diagram or ohms requirements, the new radio works on 4-8ohms the Clarion may be different. Not sure what the west marine speakers requirements are but I think it is all standard.

Is what you are saying is that the Kenwood WILL play a CD,

the EQ indicates that it IS playing,
but there is NO Audio at the speakers?

Are you absolutely sure this system does NOT have and external amp that is not being enabled? Double sure?
Does the Magic Clarion Radio have a (Usually) Blue/White wire (Amp Enable) that connects to anything?

I am sure there is no external amp, the Clarion blue/white amp wire was never used. The speakers run directly to the radio with new 14gage wire. I am about ready to pull another new fresh radio into this problem after my bench test tomorrow.

Yes, blue/white stripe would be remote amp turn on, solid blue being power antenna. Being a 38 DA, I would guess there is an amp lurking somewhere. Check your mid-berth...

I have looked and ran the old wires back to the source and no external amp on my Sea Ray but I still am looking for any 12v fuse pannel that may be my problem. I think all the 12v fuses are on the dash via the push button fuses. If I am missing another 12v fuse box let me know.

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: New radio install issue thats stumping everyone who has looked at it

One more silly idea about this silly problem...

The manual shows 2 fuses one in the red wire and one in the yellow.
The Red wire powers the radio and the amps and turns it all ON and OFF with the ignition, if so wired.
We know this one is good. It turns ON.

The Yellow wire powers the internal computer and memory.
It remains powered up continuously even when the radio is OFF to keep the internal memory working.
Are we certain there is power on the Yellow wire?

I do not think this is the issue, but we are getting desperate for any ideas!

 

[seabob4]

Re: New radio install issue thats stumping everyone who has looked at it

All stereos, regardless of make, use the same wiring scheme. So if the Clarion works, that means the yellow "memory" wire has voltage. But there is one thing that is a possibility, and I haven't seen it mentioned...

Are you hard-wiring in the new stereo? Or are you trying to install by mating up with a plug in the boat's accessory harness?

 

[NYBo]

Re: New radio install issue thats stumping everyone who has looked at it

How would I make sure the speakers are grounded on the boat? Why would the Clarion play over the speakers but no other radio with the same wires attached? I cant find the manual for the Clarion 3670RC to check its wiring diagram or ohms requirements, the new radio works on 4-8ohms the Clarion may be different. Not sure what the west marine speakers requirements are but I think it is all standard.

In a common ground scheme, each pair of speakers is powered by 3 wires (R+, L+, and common -); most modern head units require that each speaker have 2 separate leads.

 

[NYBo]

Re: New radio install issue thats stumping everyone who has looked at it

deleted

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: New radio install issue thats stumping everyone who has looked at it

All stereos, regardless of make, use the same wiring scheme. So if the Clarion works, that means the yellow "memory" wire has voltage...

The Yellow wire on the Clarion obviously works.
The question is does the Yellow on the Boss have 12v on it.

The Boss Yellow has a separate fuse holder molded in the wire with a separate 1 amp fuse.
Is the Yellow getting attached to the same place as the Clarion? Or attached at all!

Something is different here and without seeing it we can only guess.

I would guess that if a new pair of eyes looked at the problem it would be glaringly obvious.
When we hit on the solution it is going to be so simple, he will be smacking himself for missing it.
The problem is staring him right in the face but he can't see it because he keeps seeing what he expects to see.
This is NOT to disparage the OP; it is just human nature. We all do it!

 

[MolsonCanadian]

Re: New radio install issue thats stumping everyone who has looked at it

I had that issue once. I had to turn the internal AMP "on". It was optional to work from the internal head unit amp, or an external one. Look in the menus for INT AMP or SPK etc with an on/off option.

 

[seabob4]

Re: New radio install issue thats stumping everyone who has looked at it

I had that issue once. I had to turn the internal AMP "on". It was optional to work from the internal head unit amp, or an external one. Look in the menus for INT AMP or SPK etc with an on/off option.

Here's the manual...Boss Audio Systems 612UA Guide (Page 5 of 5)

No mention of internal VS external amp...

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: New radio install issue thats stumping everyone who has looked at it

Here's the manual...Boss Audio Systems 612UA Guide (Page 5 of 5)

No mention of internal VS external amp...

Yep! This is a simple radio. 4x50 watt speakers. No mute. No CD player. And plays MP3's via SD card or USB Flash.

Whatever the problem is, it is going to be a "DUH" moment!

The Bench test should tell it all!

EDIT:
I just noticed that the Manual shows...

RED > Accy > 1 Amp Fuse and
YEL > Power > 10 Amp Fuse

I would like to believe it is just a typo, but it is worth mentioning.

 

[seabob4]

Re: New radio install issue thats stumping everyone who has looked at it

Willie, no, that's not a typo. Some HUs even use a 15A in the mem circuit. I do a lot of stereo installs in my re-wires, the yellow is usually 10...

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: New radio install issue thats stumping everyone who has looked at it

Willie, no, that's not a typo. Some HUs even use a 15A in the mem circuit. I do a lot of stereo installs in my re-wires, the yellow is usually 10...

What raises the question flag, is the RED is listed as the ACCY and the YELLOW as the POWER.
And the ACCY has a bigger fuse than the POWER!

 

[eelnairb33]

Re: New radio install issue thats stumping everyone who has looked at it

Yep! This is a simple radio. 4x50 watt speakers. No mute. No CD player. And plays MP3's via SD card or USB Flash.

Whatever the problem is, it is going to be a "DUH" moment!

The Bench test should tell it all!

EDIT:
I just noticed that the Manual shows...

RED > Accy > 1 Amp Fuse and
YEL > Power > 10 Amp Fuse

I would like to believe it is just a typo, but it is worth mentioning.

Willie, no, that's not a typo. Some HUs even use a 15A in the mem circuit. I do a lot of stereo installs in my re-wires, the yellow is usually 10...

What raises the question flag, is the RED is listed as the ACCY and the YELLOW as the POWER.
And the ACCY has a bigger fuse than the POWER!

I think I have found the solution after bench test... The working kenwood will not work on the bench test and futher analysis the head unit is trash! I have hooked up the Boss and the thing works fine. So I took my volt meter over to the boat and checked that Acc wire. the wire is not even getting a volt so I will be rewiring the acc tomorrow with the Boss. Hope this works

I have to note that an old Salt told me that some of the old stereos can run on improper voltage they dont have any of the new electronics that shut the amp or head unit off if the voltage/amperage is outside of the norm. This makes me think the Majical Clarion will work pluged into a rock...