new boat with hidden flaws

[all duck'd up]

just last week i purchased a 14 ft polark jon boat for a local guy off of craigslist. i could tell the bat was ruff and would be a project so i got it to keep myself busy for the winter. the last owner removed the middle jump seat which made the walls flex and rivits to leak. this boat was repainted it looks to be 3 times becaus i can see 2 shades of green and a ugly grey like color on the botom.

so my question is how can i stop the leaks? ive seen a couple of people say they used a soldering gun, then some say gluvit but my problem with gluvit is i have so much paint on it already how do i know it wont peal off too. if the boat flexes again will the gluvit leak? and what about rihno lineing the inside of the boat; not the outside because it will be used in the river over logs and such.

 

[all duck'd up]

Re: new baot with hidden flaws

Re: new baot with hidden flaws




here are some pics of it the day i got it

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: new baot with hidden flaws

Re: new baot with hidden flaws

your pics did not post. My signature has a link on how to post em.
you will need to get a brass wire wheel and chuck it in your dril and get rid of the paint around the leaking rivets and then use Gluvit or Coat-It (Same product, less expensive) That's my recommendation.

 

[TruckDrivingFool]

Re: new baot with hidden flaws

Re: new baot with hidden flaws

If it's flexing enough to have loosened rivets, I'd say you need to find a way to stiffen the sides first otherwise your just asking for leaks again.

I've never done but have seen (somewhere in the intranet forum world) bar stock made into ribs attached to the sides and/or extra half hoop ribs laid from gunnel to gunnel across the floor.

As for sealing if you fear products not sticking you could go the bucking route which may not work if they've been too distorted from the flexing. Or you may be stuck replacing them like this.

 

[gus-gus]

Re: new baot with hidden flaws

Re: new baot with hidden flaws

On a couple old Montgomery Wards Jon Boats I have owned I tightened the rivets by using an aircraft styled rivit gun and bucking bar. Re-driving them and tightening them. It has worked every time. It works best with a helper, but it works. There are many 2 part sealers out there. I have never used Gluvit.

 

[all duck'd up]

Re: new baot with hidden flaws

Re: new baot with hidden flaws

bucking bar??? is that like using 2 hammers and beating it from both sides? someone said something about this in another forum.

 

[James_Faulkner]

Re: new baot with hidden flaws

Re: new baot with hidden flaws

I assume it's an aluminum boat? We have a guy around here that insists on riveting the holes fast with bar support if needed. JB Weld holds in a pinch, I've used it on split seams.

 

[gus-gus]

Re: new boat with hidden flaws


This is a good example of a rivet gun and bucking bar technique.

 

[greenbush future]

Re: new boat with hidden flaws

View attachment 119744
This is a good example of a rivet gun and bucking bar technique.

I did this on one of my old tin boats, I borrowed the tools from one of our better boat shops to fix a bunch of leakers. And I wouldnt try doing it alone, it really is a two person job.

 

[all duck'd up]

Re: new boat with hidden flaws

ok what ive found!!!

removed the floor boards to find the prev owner already drilled and placed non stainless bolts washers and nuts inplace of the rivits. the boat was used in salt water so they have rusted to no-end and can only be grinded or drilled out.

some must of leaks still because he tryed to use a (it looks to be bond-o) but im not 100% sure; but that looks to of failed also do to the rusting of the bolts the bondo like stuff hast started to peal and crack (so new leaks to come) :facepalm:

also where he had the bolts the aluminum has started to pit a little im guessing because he didnt paint over it properly


what ive done and thinking of doing:::
i bought a bunch of bolts nuts and washers to replace the ones i can remove along with some good silicone. i also got a new wire brush for my grinder so i can clean the 3 coats of crappy paint, rust and salt build up off. then put some silicone around some of the old bolt i cant remove.
then im thinking of using some heavy coats of duplicolor bed armor to seal it all (inside and out)

do you think this will work???

 

[jigngrub]

Re: new boat with hidden flaws

ok what ive found!!!

do you think this will work???

No, it won't work.

Cleaning the paint off of the boat will be a good place to start.

As for the nuts bolts and washers, take them back and get your money back.

Fix all leaking rivets and holes where nuts and bolts were like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0MA1-5NXjs&feature=related

Replace or fabricate another jump seat to stiffen the boat back like it was built to be. You can do this with the rivets and setting tool like in the video and some aluminum angle with sheet aluminum or plywood.

You can buy the 1/4" dia. closed end blind rivets and setting tool here:

http://www.rivetsonline.com/right-to-work-and-unions-in-the-usa.html#24

Or you can buy a cheap setting tool at Harbor Freight.

The bedliner doesn't stop leaks for long, it is a very temporary fix... and then you have to clean that crap off to fix the leaks the right way.

 

[PolishPrince]

Re: new boat with hidden flaws

I concur with replacing the seat. It was designed to be a structural member for the overall strength of the hull. The more you allow flexing, leaking rivets will be the least of your problems when cracks start to form and "spider" out.
When you replace the seat, there's no way of knowing how the original was designed. "Over-do" the strength with extruded aluminum and gussets if needed.
If you don't have time to do it right, when are you going to have time to do it over?

 

[gus-gus]

Re: new boat with hidden flaws

Engineering a seat is not a situation where strong is best, it is in fact do enough but not to much is actually best.
In real terms to stiff and the cracks will be at the seat, to weak and the boat will flex and eventually crack at the sidewall/floor corner.

I suggest building a seat as has been suggested, but used similar materials and design as the rear seat is built. Personally, I don't like pop rivets, they are a limited strength at best. If you can't buck rivets use anodized or galvanized screws and nuts. Put the screws and metal together wet with a quality sealant. then tightened before curing.

 

[all duck'd up]

Re: new boat with hidden flaws

i do agree with the seat being a structural member but there is nothing i can do about it now it was removed 2 owners ago. but what i am planning on doing because i like the open floor infront of me (Long legs/hunting);is add a deck that comes from the very front of the factory deck to about the 2nd sub frame. this will give the walls extra suport, put some well needed weight in the front, and give me some storage space too.

 

[jigngrub]

Re: new boat with hidden flaws

A deck and bulkhead will help with the support you need, but with your boat being small and narrow like it is, it will also decrease your stability... something you'll want to keep in mind.

I'm serious about the closed end blind rivets in my earlier post, these are the way to go for an easy one man installation and for a professional looking job done right. These are aircraft grade rivets that provide a waterproof and vaporproof seal when you set them.

 

[all duck'd up]

Re: new boat with hidden flaws

i will def look into them and see if maybe my local ACE or Lowes has some

thanks for the replys!!!

 

[jigngrub]

Re: new boat with hidden flaws

i will def look into them and see if maybe my local ACE or Lowes has some

thanks for the replys!!!

Your hardware store won't have them, but you can buy them online here:

http://www.rivetsonline.com/rivets-en/blind-rivets-en/closed-end-blind-rivets.html

1/4" diameter closed end aluminum rivets with the steel mandrel and very tough and strong rivets.

 

[gus-gus]

Re: new boat with hidden flaws

A deck and bulkhead will help with the support you need, but with your boat being small and narrow like it is, it will also decrease your stability... something you'll want to keep in mind.

I'm serious about the closed end blind rivets in my earlier post, these are the way to go for an easy one man installation and for a professional looking job done right. These are aircraft grade rivets that provide a waterproof and vaporproof seal when you set them.

I agree with most of what you said, except that they are aircraft grade. They might be used on experimental aircraft, which do not follow any of the FAA/PMA grade requirements, in otherwords they aren't even close to aircraft grade. Completely illegal to use on certified aircraft. I am sure they are excellent quality rivets.

We do use blind rivets legally on FAA/FAR regulated aircraft, however at $3 dollars a piece they aren't a good choice for boats, unless you need that quality, of course.

I have been installing driven rivets for so long I do take them for granted, and owning the equipment makes it easier. But it seems when ever aircraft information surfaces a number of captains are not only familiar, they work in the profession. So it is a gamble to bring it up.

Closed end pop rivets are much better for boats than standard pop rivets, for sure. The issues I have seen with continuing leaks come from lack luster installation and also from sealer quality and or absence of a sealer. This is why I have suggested and used in the past, screws and nuts.

The one point which seems to be missing from the discussion is the term "work hardening". Aluminum hardens as it is bent back and forth. All metals do. This is why you can break off a wire by bending it back and forth. Work hardening with aluminum is no different, and as a boat is bent and warped over and over the material becomes brittle and cracks. Repairs are then, only temporary, since the bending damage has been done. Doublers in the area where the seat used to be might be a good idea, since you like the open floor design. The doubler used can be an "overdone" thickness or strength without to much concern if it covers a large enough area. An over sized area deflects or spreads the stresses over an acceptably larger area and should keep things from flexing as much.

 

[all duck'd up]

Re: new boat with hidden flaws

thought i would send in a update. i sealed the rivits the best i could but this boats alum is so crappy i cant do to much framming and banging on it. i also coated the bottom with 2 thick layers of bed liner. and 2 coats of army grade olive green paint that. next i started the decking/flooring

 

[jigngrub]

Re: new boat with hidden flaws

I really like the green stiffening board running across both gunwales in the middle!... I'm sure it's much stronger than the bench seat that was removed in front of it.

This thread could probably be a good example of a bad example on how to restore a tinny.