Need some advice and guidance, PLEASE

[smokeysailor]

I am fixing up a home made boat which I bought last fall and have a few questions that I thought someone might be able to answer for me. I would like to add that this is my 1st boat project and I have very little money to put into it so I am trying to use products I already have or if necessary buy mid-range price items. Anyways I just stripped the wood deck of all the varnish and want to use Thompson's water seal on the bare wood. Any comments or anyone that has done this?
The trim at the front bow of the boat needs to be fixed; one piece has come lose the other has broken off.(I still have the piece).Do I have to glue it with epoxy before screwing it down? There seems to be some stiff cloth or plastic lining coming up between the trim and the outer trim of the bow. What is this?

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: Need some advice and guidance, PLEASE

Thompson's water sealer carp doesn't have any business on your boat. Leave it in the garden shed. It IS not even remotely a choice, let alone a good one.

The 'cloth' or plastic sheet between the hull of the boat & the trim is likely fiberglass cloth w/ epoxy or polyester resin applied to it. But since I can't really see it in your pix, I don't know for sure.

That's what it SHOULD be, but considering it's a homebuilt boat, it might be something else. Last year's shower curtain perhaps. <<<--- Hopefully not.

Any idea how the broken or loose rail were originally attached when the boat was built? I'd try to put the broken piece back down, in a similar way, and reattach the loose one the same. Based on the 1 pix:

that doesn't show any evidence of an adhesive of any kind, the trim that's broken probably was fastened w/ nails or screws to the outer piece just like the loose piece was. Notice the screw or nail sticking thru just beyond the end of your loose arrow.

You could probably use epoxy & screws to re-fasten them both. If the rest isn't epoxied, at some point you may want to address that and the tips here at the bow will be epoxied in place and not easily removed, so you can do it all.

I'd strongly suggest a good wooden boat book & some time online spent learning how well built homebuilt and professionally built wooden boats are made & more importantly at this point, maintained. A wooden boat can be a lot of hard work, with huge payoffs if it's done well & taken care of. Done carelessly, or incorrectly, it'll still be a lot of work, plus you'll have the immense pleasure of doing it over & over again.

Spar varnish or urethane would be good choices, and it'll likely take many coats.

 

[jigngrub]

Re: Need some advice and guidance, PLEASE

Thompsons water seal is little more than mineral spirits and paraffin (wax) and isn't suitable for marine applications... but it's your boat and you can build it anyway you want.

I would suggest an exterior grade oil based paint instead if you're on a tight budget.

You can use 3M 5200 adhesive sealant to bond your trim.

I'll guess the stiff cloth is fiberglass.

Thompson's water sealer carp doesn't have any business on your boat. Leave it in the garden shed. It IS not even remotely a choice, let alone a good one.

The 'cloth' or plastic sheet between the hull of the boat & the trim is likely fiberglass cloth w/ epoxy or polyester resin applied to it. But since I can't really see it in your pix, I don't know for sure.

That's what it SHOULD be, but considering it's a homebuilt boat, it might be something else. Last year's shower curtain perhaps. <<<--- Hopefully not.

Any idea how the broken or loose rail were originally attached when the boat was built? I'd try to put the broken piece back down, in a similar way, and reattach the loose one the same. Based on the 1 pix:

that doesn't show any evidence of an adhesive of any kind, the trim that's broken probably was fastened w/ nails or screws to the outer piece just like the loose piece was. Notice the screw or nail sticking thru just beyond the end of your loose arrow.

You could probably use epoxy & screws to re-fasten them both. If the rest isn't epoxied, at some point you may want to address that and the tips here at the bow will be epoxied in place and not easily removed, so you can do it all.

I'd strongly suggest a good wooden boat book & some time online spent learning how well built homebuilt and professionally built wooden boats are made & more importantly at this point, maintained. A wooden boat can be a lot of hard work, with huge payoffs if it's done well & taken care of. Done carelessly, or incorrectly, it'll still be a lot of work, plus you'll have the immense pleasure of doing it over & over again.

Spar varnish or urethane would be good choices, and it'll likely take many coats.

Hey JBC, how do you get those pics all nice and big like that???

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Need some advice and guidance, PLEASE

Wooden boat builders almost always used epoxy and glass fabric when building so I suspect thats what is peeling up. Since you're on a limited budget I'd paint her with oil based paint. First couple of coats thinned 30%. Then final 2 coats full strength. Ring Shanked nails or Screws to hold things in place. Got any pics of the entire boat?

 

[smokeysailor]

Re: Need some advice and guidance, PLEASE

Thanks for the advice on Thompsons water seal, I read that one could use it on-line somewhere...I didn't really think it was suitable so thats why I asked. As for the trim, no there doesn't seem to be any left over glue around so I guess the builder didn't use any...I think I will. Can anyone suggest a good book? I live in a small town and I have yet to find anything helpful here. I did browse on-line for information but most of it was on structural integrity, replacing rot etc. The deck of my boat is wood so I don't want to paint it, I want to clear coat it.
I got the picture big by editing it in a program called PhotoFiltre and cropping it down.

Thank you for all your replies.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: Need some advice and guidance, PLEASE

Hey JBC, how do you get those pics all nice and big like that???

By using photobucket & posting the IMG code Thanks for asking.....

All that info about repair & replacement of rotten wood on a wooden boat will be very helpful info to have, so remember where you found it.

I'm sure it won't be a surprise, or at least it shouldn't be, but the more effort, time & money you spend NOW, the less you'll spend later, AND it will last a bit longer before you have to redo anything, including touching up the wood sealer you use.

New high end wooden boats might get 20 coats (or more) of hand rubbed varnish on ALL the exposed wood on the boat.

I don't know if it's appropriate for anything below the waterline, but you might as WoodOnGlass to post the old time boat finish based on boiled linseed oil. If you are only talking about the upper area of the hull in the pix you posted & the trim above the waterline, I suspect that the BLO finish would work pretty well, and be relatively inexpensive too. It would also not be detrimental to have used the BLO & later when it's time to redo or reapply, if you wish, you can probably use a spar varnish or urethane.

Your thread, and the info you'll need that's specific to wooden boats is one of the reasons I suggested a wooden &/or homebuilt section in the resto forum.

Here's a GREAT example of a wooden boat built by an iboats member:
New build crackerbox

Knowing that I wanted to some day build a wooden boat, I've read wooden boat magazine for years:
WoodenBoat Magazine | WoodenBoat, Small Boats ...

They have a book publishing division as well:
[h=3]WoodenBoat Books - Home[/h]and there are a few on evil-bay

This book is available used for@$14 delivered on amazon:
Painting & Varnishing

Here's another, and it's table of contents:
Table of Contents:
Intro

Maintenance in the water

Winter Maintenance
Scraping down to bare wood
Surface treatment
To glue or not to glue
Wood for Boatbuilding
Screws and nails
Corrosion and nail sickness
Tools
Plugging and filling in smaller damages
Joints
Splining
Wood Frames

Steel frames
Floors

Planking
The backbone
Deck

Superstructure
Interior design
Mounting hardware

Masts
Engine installation
Purchasing a wooden boat
Drawings and specifications


I bolded the sections that might be relevant, looks like it's about 60% or more of the sections. Although you aren't to a restoration stage yet, or in need of removal & repair of rotted wood, keep this boat for more then a year or 2, and you may need most if not all of that info.

Amazon also has a Repair & Maintenance book that might also prove helpful, for $12 shipped, but used.

After building the small knock-down plywood boat several years ago, I KNOW I'll build a more substantial boat 1 day. I may never have the skill or funds available to build one remotely close to Sean's Old's Cool but I will.

LOTS of good info online, you might even find a digital copy of a book, that can be downloaded to an electronic device.

 

[Ned L]

Re: Need some advice and guidance, PLEASE

May I suggest that you fill us in with more information before recommendations are given. Definitely some pictures of the whole boat and what you expect from it and how you will want to use it will help us a lot with making recommendations (would you like to finish her up as nicely as possible within your budget or get her on the water and usable without worrying about what she looks like to much, etc. – By your comment about not wanting to paint the deck I would guess you want to make her as good looking as you can.)
Looking at the nice job done on the faux planking seams that the builder put in the foredeck it makes me think that some reasonable care was put into her construction.
As others have mentioned, the cloth is most likely from a light layer of fiberglass on the outside of the hull (not particularly important, but may well be polyester resin rather than epoxy resin). Considering she has a plywood foredeck and is fiberglassed, the logical guess would be she has a plywood hull as well.
I agree, Thompson’s water seal does not belong here. As for the broken sections of the toe-rail, if it were me I might well follow the original builder’s intent during the repair. If the original was not glued down then I may not glue the broken piece down. If the break fits back together fairly well I would apply some epoxy to the ends of the break, push the break together and screw the broken piece into place. I would ‘dry fit’ the pieces first to see that you can still achieve a fair curve in the toe-rail and don’t end up with a ‘hard spot’ in the curve where the break is.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Need some advice and guidance, PLEASE

If you want to keep the look of the wood and seal her up really well you can do what the old timers did.



It should be noted, you don't have to use any particular "Brand" of BLO, Mineral Spirits, or Varnish. Any kind would work. You DO want to use an Exterior Grade Polyurethane due to the fact that it will/should have UV protection which will prolong the protection offered from the Sun's Ultraviolet Rays.

 

[Ned L]

Re: Need some advice and guidance, PLEASE

Though that will seal the surface of the wood, it won't allow you to control the color and hue of the finished surface like an oil based stain and regular varnish will. It all depends on what look you are going for.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Need some advice and guidance, PLEASE

I've updated the post to reflect that it's just a sealer. That's all I've ever stated that it was intended for. I suppose you could add some "Tint" to the formula if you wanted to. Never tried. This acts much like an Oil based stain except that the Linseed Oil contains a LOT of solids and the MS allows it to penetrate deep into the wood where the solids of the BLO expand and seal the pores of the wood. The Varnish then crystalizes and seals the top of the wood. It really makes a very effective sealer. Works well on Pine too as a pre cursor to staining it. A thin coat of it prior to applying stain keeps the pine from "Blotching" and taking the stain unevenly!!!

 

[Ned L]

Re: Need some advice and guidance, PLEASE

Thank you Woodonglass. Nice to know it works as a 'conditioner' esp. on woods like pine that can be quite blotchy without conditioning prior to staining.

 

[smokeysailor]

Re: Need some advice and guidance, PLEASE

Hi, thanks for all the information on books and things to read. I am interested in doing my little boat up so she looks good and is safe. I am a bit strapped for cash right now but that will change. I don't want to slap crap on, or do a poor quality job that just has to be re-done. I am quite willing to do and learn all I can. I love to fix and beautify things. I am a journeyman painter and decorator and make wooden toy vehicles, birdhouses etc. for pleasure. I am going to be using the boat on a few of the rivers near by and small lakes. Fishing and exploring.
I would like to design and build some compartments for storage of beverages, maps extra clothing etc. The inside of the boat has just got 2 swivel seats and a small bench seat. Also I would like to put some sort of floor in it as the ribbing is very difficult to walk on. There is no drain plug in the boat either.