Need prop help with new boat

[gtochris]

New to me 2014 Sea Ray 220 with a 5.0L MPI and Alpha 1 drive.
It has zero hole shot! full throttle is 3,000 RPMS and me staring at the sky. it takes forever to get on plane with 4 normal size adults in the cockpit. I'm rather ill from it as I knew it wouldn't be a power house but something isn't right.

What prop should I have on this? Maxed out it's doing low 40's. I'm so disappointed.
My old 5.7L carb with similar HP would smoke this.

 

[jimmbo]

Well a 5.7 has quite a bit more Torque than a 5 liter. I suspect you need a shorter prop, but before you start swapping props, what Prop is currently on it?
What condition is the engine in?
Compression Test.
Is the spark strong enough at all cylinders to jump a 3/8" gap
Is the Timing set correctly? and is the Spark advancing?
Is the fuel system supplying fuel to all cylinders?
Hook up a vacuum gauge and see what that tells you.

 

[QBhoy]

Yeah. I’d ask what prop is on it now. Something ain’t right. Will be a prop issue or a running issue for sure. What rpm are you getting when you are in the 40’s ?

 

[Scott06]

Yeah. I’d ask what prop is on it now. Something ain’t right. Will be a prop issue or a running issue for sure. What rpm are you getting when you are in the 40’s ?

Agreed what prop is on it now and what is WOT rpm if indicating 3 k assume that is a bad tach. Also verify it is in good running order

If you go to sea ray website there is a prop chart under owners resources. Should tell you what it came from factory (not that that is optimized) as comparison to what's on there now

 

[gtochris]

Agreed what prop is on it now and what is WOT rpm if indicating 3 k assume that is a bad tach. Also verify it is in good running order

If you go to sea ray website there is a prop chart under owners resources. Should tell you what it came from factory (not that that is optimized) as comparison to what's on there now

The website I found says it should have 14.50 x 17p. I'm pulling the boat out tomorrow to check closer. I'm also wondering if the plastic cone under is cracked- I have a spare one. Finally, I pulled the 19p SS Prop off my Wellcraft to try.

 

[Scott06]

The website I found says it should have 14.50 x 17p. I'm pulling the boat out tomorrow to check closer. I'm also wondering if the plastic cone under is cracked- I have a spare one. Finally, I pulled the 19p SS Prop off my Wellcraft to try.

If it should have a 17 the 19 will make holeshot worse. Assuming engine is in good shale and maintained you want to go lower in pitch than what u have on their now. What was the wot rpm with current prop? And whats the pitch

 

[jimmbo]

The website I found says it should have 14.50 x 17p. I'm pulling the boat out tomorrow to check closer. I'm also wondering if the plastic cone under is cracked- I have a spare one. Finally, I pulled the 19p SS Prop off my Wellcraft to try.

Plastic Cone?

 

[Scott06]

Plastic Cone?

Assume he means the plastic prop hub, but that either works or it doesnt, prop would slip and rpms would be too high not low if it was an issue

 

[gtochris]

Update: Prop that came on the boat was an Ertia SS 14.5x17P. It matches what Sea Ray's parts catelog lists as the included prop with this drive combo.

I replaced it with the Mirage from the Wellcraft that is 48-13700 19P. The 19P Is about 3/4" larger diameter and of cours, +2 on the Pitch.

Performance I think is a bit better, it's still no ski-boat, I was able to get up to 43MPH on GPS last night.
Both props you can floor it down, RPM's jump to about 2800/3000 and like a CVT Car, they stay there while the boat works to catch up. Once on-plane I can push things more and get up to 4800RPM's.

Any thoughts? It's a heavy boat but again, I wasn't expecting this level of disappointment. Especially going to fuel injection, maintaining similar HP, and 15 years newer.

 

[jimmbo]

Ertia? Google Search shows nothing for props. Did you mean Enertia?
If you replaced a 17" prop with a 19" prop that had more Diameter, the boat would be even slower out of the hole.

 

[dingbat]

RPM's jump to about 2800/3000 and like a CVT Car, they stay there while the boat works to catch up. Once on-plane I can push things more and get up to 4800RPM's.

New to you boat?
Something is wrong. What you describe is the typical classic symptoms of a under propped boat.

Since that is the factory recommended prop size. One can only assume that the prop is damaged, worn out or has cavitation or venting issues for one reason or another

 

[Scott06]

Update: Prop that came on the boat was an Ertia SS 14.5x17P. It matches what Sea Ray's parts catelog lists as the included prop with this drive combo.

I replaced it with the Mirage from the Wellcraft that is 48-13700 19P. The 19P Is about 3/4" larger diameter and of cours, +2 on the Pitch.

Performance I think is a bit better, it's still no ski-boat, I was able to get up to 43MPH on GPS last night.
Both props you can floor it down, RPM's jump to about 2800/3000 and like a CVT Car, they stay there while the boat works to catch up. Once on-plane I can push things more and get up to 4800RPM's.

Any thoughts? It's a heavy boat but again, I wasn't expecting this level of disappointment. Especially going to fuel injection, maintaining similar HP, and 15 years newer.

Sea Rays tend to be heavy. I wouldn't expect a 22 ft with a 5.0 to be a barn burner. I have a sea ray 200 sport that has a 5.0 carb but upgraded with a 4 bbl edelbrock carb and intake (advertised as 260 hp by Michigan Motorz). My top speed completely trimed out half tank if gas my best is 48 on gps.. so bigger boat similar hp may not do better than 43.

one thing that was interesting i got my best speed with a 4 blade revolution 4 vs an enertia and a vensura becuase i can fully trim out with out blowing the prop out.
both mirage and enertia are very good props. Since its new to you are you confident of engine maintenance? I know the crab caps are prone to misfires. Did you do a compression test

 

[gtochris]

one thing that was interesting i got my best speed with a 4 blade revolution 4 vs an enertia and a vensura becuase i can fully trim out with out blowing the prop out.
both mirage and enertia are very good props. Since its new to you are you confident of engine maintenance? I know the crab caps are prone to misfires. Did you do a compression test

No, I didn't do a compression test. It has 230 hours on it. The design is such that reaching the rear sparkplugs is almost impossible IMO. I have no idea how I'll reach the starboard plugs if I ever do them and I'm not that big.
Crab Caps? Could it really be faulty in a 2014 with such low hours?

How did the 4 blade do getting out of the water from a dig? It's on my mind to consider.

 

[Scott06]

Crab Caps? Could it really be faulty in a 2014 with such low hours?

How did the 4 blade do getting out of the water from a dig? It's on my mind to consider.

The distributor cap on the mpi looks like a crab its flat and is a known failure point, but usually causes a misfire, bottom line known weakpoint that is cheap and yes a lot less time than 8 yrs.
@QBhoy has some experience on the symptoms.

on the. 4 blade yes i have found especially with tail heavy boats much much better holeshot and lower planning speed. My typical use is loaded water sports . Last weekend my daughter had her friends up so i had five in the boat and three on the tube.
if you want to try a cheaper aluminum one try a 16” michigan votex 4 blade to cut your teeth on if you like a 4 blade for your use.
my best holeshot was with the vensura its a little bit smaller than the rev 4 lets the engine spin up faster but had a lot of slip on top end .did you try experimenting with the vent plugs on the enertia ?

 

[gtochris]

The distributor cap on the mpi looks like a crab its flat and is a known failure point, but usually causes a misfire, bottom line known weakpoint that is cheap and yes a lot less time than 8 yrs.
@QBhoy has some experience on the symptoms.

on the. 4 blade yes i have found especially with tail heavy boats much much better holeshot and lower planning speed. My typical use is loaded water sports . Last weekend my daughter had her friends up so i had five in the boat and three on the tube.
if you want to try a cheaper aluminum one try a 16” michigan votex 4 blade to cut your teeth on if you like a 4 blade for your use.
my best holeshot was with the vensura its a little bit smaller than the rev 4 lets the engine spin up faster but had a lot of slip on top end .did you try experimenting with the vent plugs on the enertia ?

This may be a good thing to look at. Any way to verify if the Crab is failing before spending $100 on a replacement to realize it was OK?

When going from a 3 blade to 4, what should I do with the pitch and size?

For some reason I thought I had the Enertia prop which they come with standard. I just noticed tonight it is a Quicksilver "Silverado" 3 blade with the 14.5x17P. I thought going to the 19P from the wellcraft would be helpful since it's a larger diameter (More surface area). I might try and time the holeshot and top speed and switch back to the 14P one and do the same.

 

[Scott06]

This may be a good thing to look at. Any way to verify if the Crab is failing before spending $100 on a replacement to realize it was OK?

When going from a 3 blade to 4, what should I do with the pitch and size?

For some reason I thought I had the Enertia prop which they come with standard. I just noticed tonight it is a Quicksilver "Silverado" 3 blade with the 14.5x17P. I thought going to the 19P from the wellcraft would be helpful since it's a larger diameter (More surface area). I might try and time the holeshot and top speed and switch back to the 14P one and do the same.

new to you boat i would expect to do some basic maintenance. Lack of maint has killed more boats than the hours put on them .

suggested compression test to get a baseline. In all likely hood its probaly fine but if you are chasing performance issues do it as a sanity check. Also check plugs are correct. I am not an mpi expert but i recall seeing them be sensitive to using the correct plugs. Would t hurt to swap you water pump impeller too.
typically in a prop family as pitch goes down diameter will go up. Swapping on a higher pitch larger diameter prop takes more power to swing and i would think your holeshot would be worse. Makes sense to do some on water trials time holeshot and wot rpm for both props so yku can make some intelligent decsions on proping.

as rule of thumb as you go from 3 to 4 blades you drop in pitch. Alot of 4 blades have even prop pitches like the 16”michigan i suggested should be rpm wise roughly equivalent to a 17” three blade.
based on what you want you need to drop pitch for better holeshot.
the silverado is the quicksilver branding of the merc vengeance prop which is a pretty basic stainless prop.
i think in the end you willbe best served if you can find a prop shop to work with and try a few. Definitely an enertia, four blades like revolution 4 , if you prefer aluminum due to cost the michigan vortex are an excellent value and good way to ease into prop trials

 

[harringtondav]

This may be a good thing to look at. Any way to verify if the Crab is failing before spending $100 on a replacement to realize it was OK?

When going from a 3 blade to 4, what should I do with the pitch and size?

For some reason I thought I had the Enertia prop which they come with standard. I just noticed tonight it is a Quicksilver "Silverado" 3 blade with the 14.5x17P. I thought going to the 19P from the wellcraft would be helpful since it's a larger diameter (More surface area). I might try and time the holeshot and top speed and switch back to the 14P one and do the same.

The rule of thumb for props generally holds: + or - 200 WOT rpm for each inch of prop pitch change. You stated you can reach 4800 rpm with the 19' P which is about max specified WOT rpm. Since it takes a while to reach this indicates you're power limited. More power will get you to this rpm/speed quicker, but your max speed won't increase. Basic maintenance checks mention above are a good idea to be sure you're not leaving power on the table.
Alpha props tend to be 14"-14 1/4" diameter. Going larger has the same effect of increasing pitch.....something you don't want. Sort out any engine issues. Then if you're looking for top speed, stick with a 19P. If you want to improve acceleration go down to a 17P. ...thinking your Merc power package is rev limited, so you won't go over WOT limit.

 

[jimmbo]

Rev Limiters don't come into effect until a few hundred Rpms above the top of the recommended Rpm Range

 

[harringtondav]

Rev Limiters don't come into effect until a few hundred Rpms above the top of the recommended Rpm Range

Good to know. My previous '96 4.3 LX didn't have one. When I ran a 21P for play, my throttle hand was the rev limiter else I'd see 5200 rpm. ...The 23P prop self limited at 4800 rpm, verifying the rule of thumb.