Nautolex and 3m spray adhesive?

[mrokusek]

Re: Nautolex and 3m spray adhesive?

Agree, if Marine Vinyl was like kitchen viny or rubber backed carpet then 80 would be the correct choice. The Marine Vinyl I have has a woven fiber backing.

So, I guess I'm hoping someone can answer this. Is the backing of Nautolex marine flooring vinyl or rubber so that I should use 3M Rubber & Vinyl 80 Spray Adhesive, or is it polyethylene or polypropylene so I should use 3M Hi-Strength 90 Spray Adhesive? sschefer says some sort of vinyl he has is woven fiber backing so I don't know if that's polyethylene or polypropylene or something else. And I don't know if that's the same of what's used by Nautolex. I initially thought to use 80 but don't know what the backing is made out of on Nautolex.

Or, I guess I could use the Nautolex adhesive. The only reason I was thinking of the 3M spray stuff was because the guy helping me is most familiar with it and has made 77 work with carpet. Buy vinyl backing I'm guessing is different than carpet backing so I need to make sure I get the right adhesive.

I looked at Cabelas and found a few bad reviews about the adhesive they sell for their vinyl flooring never dried. I really don't want to do all of this work and use the wrong adhesive.

Any advice from people who have worked with Nautolex and/or 3M adhesives is appreciated.

 

[tomynoks]

Re: Nautolex and 3m spray adhesive?

Check out the posts below from May 3rd -4th. I would not use a spray-on adhesive. That's just my personal choice... You'd think I would have my vinyl flooring down by now, but a little chainsaw accident prevented me from finishing it last year and this has just been too busy. I did try contact cement on the bottem edges of hatch covers, but in this AZ heat, it will not hold without staples...just FYI... I'm still going to use the Nautolex 88 adhesive...maybe I will get to it this year! lol.. Please continue to post your progress....like you, I don;t want to make any mistakes with the flooring, once done, I don;t EVER want to have to pull it up! I did buy the Naulolex textured vinyl and adhesive from defender.com hey have the best prices I could find.. The backing is non-woven (spun) and 100% PET (Polyethylene terephthalate) see: http://www.omnova.com/products/marineOEMUpholstery/documents/NautMarFloor74Spec.pdf Keep us posted on your project and I'll do the same. What kind of boat do you have?

Thanks,

Tom

 

[Mark42]

Re: Nautolex and 3m spray adhesive?

I used a water based carpet adhesive. Worked well, especially being water based. That lets the excess adhesive get wiped off with a damp cloth up to an hour later and no petroleum products are needed that will affect the viny. After curing for a few days, the water based adhesive is no longer water soluble, so puddles of water will not affect seams, and cleanup of smears and drips, etc a few days later is MUCH harder than if done the same day as the spill. But you MUST keep the boat dry for a few days to ensure that the glue is fully cured. Example: it rained overnight after installing the deco dot earlier that day. I left the windows open in the hard top, and a downpour put a puddle of water on the floor in front of the front seats. Puddle was up against a seat base, maybe 1/2" deep, and seeped under the deco dot. This happens (of course) in one of the few spots with no overlap seams. The entire section had to be pealed back, rubbed the glue off with soapy sponge, let dry, then re-applied the glue and put back a larger piece of vinyl with overlap seams. A few weeks later, it pours rain, window is open again (Doh!) and I get the same puddle of water in the same place. This time the seams are water tight, no lifting, no leaking. Just mop up the water with a towel and its done. After two weeks at the beach, water, sand, seaweed, etc are all over the floor. Just a damp cloth wipes the mess up. Standing water puddles are not a problem. Nothing stinks, nothing is sticky, nothing is stained. I did start putting a towel on the floor where the kids climb in and out as a "drip station" until they get a towel on them. That worked good too. If you want, small sections of carpet can be used where needed. Easy to take out and wash when necessary (like every day for my use!!!).

It is important to overlap seams where vertical meets horizontal. I the pic below, the floor was installed first, and extends up the seat bases. A 1" strip of wood was used as a gauge to make a clean cut off horizontally all around the seat base. Then the seat base vinyl was applied. Because of the dot pattern, the overlap is not noticeable, and it provided a vertually water proof seam. Trying to cut free hand will make a wavy cut that will show through the overlap. This should be done regardless what vinyl is used, deco dot or other. Take the link below if you want to see high res versions of the photos that can be zoomed in on to see more detail.

I'm sure people are getting sick of this photo, but it does apply to the conversation....

http://shareaproject.com/pages/projectTut,p,672,00.html

PS. Fishing hooks do not get snagged on vinyl like they do on carpet. Bait and fish guts just wipe up, and dried guts/bait just peal off, and wipe up with a damp cloth. And no stink. Take note fishermen!!!

 

[ezmobee]

Re: Nautolex and 3m spray adhesive?

I used the Nautolex adhesive on mine. Easy use, apply with a paint brush

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w200/ezmobee/New Boat/DSCF2491.jpg

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w200/ezmobee/New Boat/DSCF2728-2.jpg

I'm happy with my Nautolex deck.

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Nautolex and 3m spray adhesive?

If I tried nautolex again (big if) I'd get the nautolex adhesive.

The big problem I had with Nautolex in general was the lack of resistance to some of the chemicals I used and the difficulty of cleaning without a full wash down. The texture was nice, but not great.

I think I mentioned above... I used the shark color nautolex, which includes a pattern printed on the material with ink. I spilled acetone on it at one point doing some glass work and it took the pattern right off.

The nautolex I have (still have some) is not fabric backed.

my choice for deck material in the future is paint with anti-skid, or gelcoat with the same. It's easier to make a repair look like new than with sheet flooring.

Erik

 

[Mark42]

Re: Nautolex and 3m spray adhesive?

If I tried nautolex again (big if) I'd get the nautolex adhesive.

The big problem I had with Nautolex in general was the lack of resistance to some of the chemicals I used and the difficulty of cleaning without a full wash down. The texture was nice, but not great.

I think I mentioned above... I used the shark color nautolex, which includes a pattern printed on the material with ink. I spilled acetone on it at one point doing some glass work and it took the pattern right off.

The nautolex I have (still have some) is not fabric backed.

my choice for deck material in the future is paint with anti-skid, or gelcoat with the same. It's easier to make a repair look like new than with sheet flooring.

Erik

Eric, I read somewhere else that the regular nautolex color ran when chemicals were spilled on it. The Deco Dot is solid color all the way through, if that helps any. But if you don't like the dot pattern... your out of luck. You also mentioned the edges need a trim to keep it from rolling. I chose 1/2" x 1/8" aluminum stock to trim the edges. It doesn't show, but it does a good job of keeping the vinyl from being pealed by stored materials rubbing against it.

BTW, the deco dot has a thin fiberglass type fabric back on it.

Check out the Merideck, I believe it has a thin clear vinyl top coat. Might prevent color/chemical issues.

 

[mrokusek]

Re: Nautolex and 3m spray adhesive?

Tom,
I see you're in Arizona too. I need something that will last in the heat and the friend who will be helping me has the vinyl around the edges and stapled on the underside. I'm completely fine with staples, although I'm a little fearful to see the condition of the wood underneath the carpet. I have a 1984 Lund aluminum with a steering console and 3 seats. I estimated that I need 8 yards at 72" wide but padding for errors and everything else, I may get 10 yards. Defender cost for Shark 10 yards at 72" wide, plus Nautolex Adhesive 88 gallon, plus shipping is about $300. West Marine, where I can have it shipped for free to the store, is $350 for the vinyl alone and doesn't even include the adhesive. Tempe Sales fabric store sells Tradewinds Marine Grade Vinyl for $14/yd and have their own adhesive the lady on the phone said the contractors use. So, I don't know, I may try that vinyl since it's half the price and local. I wonder if anyone has done a comparison. Is this Nautolex stuff really worth twice the price when compared to Tradewinds marine grade vinyl?

Anyway, back to topic. Everyone is recommending using Nautolex adhesive if I go with Nautolex and I think they still recommend it even if I plan to staple stuff down. If I go with local store, I probably would go with their adhesive. In these forums, I'm not sure anyone recommended spray on so now I need to convince my helper friend that we're going with what the forum says and not him!

 

[fishrdan]

Re: Nautolex and 3m spray adhesive?

I think I posted this earlier, but...

I used Weldwood Landau Top spray grade adhesive when I put Nautolex (Marideck? don't know, got it off Ebay) in my boat. 5 gallons from the local upholstery supplier was $60. It's used for automotive applications and has worked very well in my boat. I've had the vinyl in there for over a year now, 2 hot Las Vegas summers and it's holding up nice. I used a cheap $10 Harbor Freight spray gun to apply it and sprayed it on kind of heavy. You need to staple the heck out of the edges or it will start to curl up. I stapled every 2" or so and thought that was good, but after 6 months the exposed edges started curling (deck lids), so I removed them and stapled every inch, haven't had a problem since then. The area's that are stuck vinyl/metal are holding up perfect. Where I glued it down on top of itself, the top face side, it's starting to pull loose a, but I'm not sure if anything will stick to the slick face of the vinyl. Nautolex says to secure/staple the edges, even with their adhesive, so I think stapling is needed no matter what adhesive you use.

One thing, I wouldn't use Monel staples,,, ever again... I threw out every 4 letter word while stapling my vinyl down. Every 3rd staple would bend over, so I'd have to pull it and shoot again. I burned through 2-3 boxes or Monel staples. I had a cheap Harbor Freight electric stapler and a $50 Arrow electric stapler, both of them were bending the staples at the same rate so it wasn't due to a bad stapler, it was crappy staples. When I went back to secure the deck lid edges with more staples, I couldn't get Monel so I purchase SS staples... 1 in about 15-20 of the SS staples bent, much better! AND, the SS staples are 1/2 the price of Monel, $6-7 instead of $12-14/ box.

On the Tradewinds vinyl. I never heard of it so I googled it. It looks to be a seat/upholstery vinyl, not decking/floor vinyl. I don't think that stuff is what you want.

Oh yeah, I used about 60 yards of vinyl in my boat, everything is vinyled, decks, console supports, hatches, interior sides, engine cover, etc, etc.

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Nautolex and 3m spray adhesive?

Pics somewhere, fishrdan?

I might check out some other decking fabrics in the future, but for now it's paint, or possibly the newer "Kiwigrip" product... it almost looks like Vinyl anyway...

Erik

 

[fishrdan]

Re: Nautolex and 3m spray adhesive?

Pics somewhere, fishrdan?

I'll snap a couple this weekend and post them up, the good, the bad,,, and the ugly...

 

[mrokusek]

Re: Nautolex and 3m spray adhesive?

OK, I'll use Nautolex adhesive and stay clear of the 3M spray on stuff. I'll use fasteners as well. As an FYI, the lady at 3M tech support said the 3M 90 would be correct for the Nautolex since it's 100% PET backed. Prior posts on this thread said 3M 90 didn't hold for long or like hot temps though, so I'll still use Nautolex. I have a 16' alum boat and was going to get 1 gallon of the adhesive but fishrdan above used 5 gallons of some spray stuff so I need to check the coverage of the stuff.

I'm just a bit reluctant to pull the trigger and buy the vinyl since it seems like common complaints are that it gets slippery when wet and it gets hot. My 3 kids and wife may complain if they burn their feet getting in the boat and then proceed to slip and fall when it's wet. Carpet vs vinyl is on another thread so perhaps I'll wake that thread up as well. Thanks everyone for the help.

 

[ezmobee]

Re: Nautolex and 3m spray adhesive?

1 gallon will do you. It was JUST enough to do all this in my 18'

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w200/ezmobee/New Boat/DSCF2490.jpg

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w200/ezmobee/New Boat/DSCF2491.jpg

I ended up having to use a little carpet adhesive to finish the job on the sides where I added vinyl in my side storage pockets here: http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w200/ezmobee/New Boat/DSCF2503.jpg

This is probably more than you're doing so I'm confident a gallon will suffice.

You can see I added some flat stock aluminum to help hold down the edges under my consoles here http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w200/ezmobee/New Boat/DSCF2529.jpg

I have not found that it gets at all slippery or hot. I'm a big fan.

 

[mrokusek]

Re: Nautolex and 3m spray adhesive?

Well, I'm midway through the project. I've removed all prior carpet, wood, etc. and replacing the wood that was bad, then applied a Boaters Polyester Resin epoxy type product on all of he wood. It's still sticky so I have fear it'll never fully cure. Oh well. I also bought the Nautolex marine vinyl flooring and their Nautolex Adhesive 88 product and I will apply the vinyl this weekend.

ezmobee, where did you buy that flat stock aluminum and was it maleable/bendable? I have a few places in the boat where the vinyl will be installed right onto the aluminum of the boat and not sure what to do with it when I get to an edge. It'll be in the front compartment below where the pedestal seat goes (see picture):

Here's a picture of the back/floor of the boat:

Unrelated question, is it o.k. to run a fish finder wire that goes to the 'thing' on the back of the boat along the same conduit as the 12V power wire? Back in my car stereo days, they claimed you wouldn't always want to do that otherwise you'd get interference... Or perhaps someone can direct me to the forum for this question.

 

[ezmobee]

Re: Nautolex and 3m spray adhesive?

ezmobee, where did you buy that flat stock aluminum and was it maleable/bendable?

Lowes/HD have a decent selection of aluminum channel and flat stock. Price isn't great but for the amount I used it wasn't bad.

 

[fishrdan]

Re: Nautolex and 3m spray adhesive?

I agree with EZ, if you are just doing the deck, 1 gallon should be enough. My boat has vinyl all over the place, no carpet (sorry for the lack of pictures so far) and I used a little over 3 gallons of the laudau top spray grade adhesive. I probably use 3x the amount of vinyl in my boat, 72"x60'....

You can get aluminum flat stock at a good metal supplier, but they usually only sell it in 20' sticks. It might be more economical to buy it at Lowes/HD, if you are only using a little.

The fish finder transducer cable is "supposed to be" run away from power cables. I have mine bundled with all the power cables and haven't had problems, rolled the dice and hoped I didn't have problems. If you do run it with the power cables, be ready to move the cable if you have problems with the FF.

Here are a couple old work in progress, I'll get some more when I get the chance.

Here's what it looked like when I got it.....

 

[mrokusek]

Re: Nautolex and 3m spray adhesive?

OK, here are 4 pictures of the finished product. I ended up cutting new wood for the deck and kept the same wood for the floor. I didn't account for the fact that the vinyl is thinner than the original carpet so I have some gaps. I don't have time to make it perfect and still very happy with the result. I used Nautolex adhesive and for the 16' boat, a gallon barely covered it. We used a lot of staples on the underside of each piece. I got new chairs too so real happy with the finished product.

I took it with the kids to do some tubing/fishing and didn't feel like it was slippery. I put towels on the floor in various places to soak up water and found those towels to pretty much be soaked right away and a mess the rest of the trip. I'm not sure I'll do that again -- maybe just wipe up big water spots but then put away the towels.

 

[sschefer]

Re: Nautolex and 3m spray adhesive?

Very Nice... nuf said!

 

[tomynoks]

Re: Nautolex and 3m spray adhesive?

Looks good!! I've working like mad on mine as well... sporadically at best though!! Had a full day today and another tomorrow... it seems I spend more time "thinking" about what to do then actually doing anything!!! I have to finish running cable/wire out of my battery compartment. Then I can screw the deck down and lay the Nautolex... I was planning to get Monel staples, so I'm glad I checked the forum..... will go with stainless... We'll have to get together and go fishing sometime! I live in Mesa, where do you live?

Thanks,

Tom Smith

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Nautolex and 3m spray adhesive?

Kinda looks like you decked your boat with a sidewalk... nice design

Plus I bet the nautolex will last forever, being fastened down like that.

Erik

 

[tomynoks]

Re: Nautolex and 3m spray adhesive?

Even though fishrdan had trouble with monel staples... I bought some at Lowe's ($16) They are working just fine. The stainless steel staples say "Not for Marine Applications" right on the box and are only "Rust Resistent" The monel staples say "For Marine Applications" and are "Rust Proof". The brand I bought is Arrow T-50. I have a cheap ACE Hardware stapler, so maybe it was the brand fishrdan was using that caused the problems?