My first boat restoration, I need some guidance - PLEASE HELP!

[Deleted member 340796]

I am restoring my first boat and I am running into a few questions along the way. I am hoping you guys can steer me in the right direction. The boat is a 1970 Caravelle Fish and Ski (best I can tell it is the Barracuda). I have a Mercury 65 HP 4 cylinder motor on it that seems to run fine and a trolling motor that also runs fine. The problem was the transom was cracked and the floor was rotten. So I stripped it down and removed the top and started ripping out rotten wood. I was able to remove the entire transom in about 30 - 40 minutes by hand alone. Scary! The floor took more time but mostly because the fiberglass in most areas was still pretty strong. At this point I only have about 20 hours in to the demo and I am almost at the bare bones of the hull. My first concern is with water pooling on the outer tops of the hulls (both sides). The boat was made in a way that along both sides on the upper/outer most hull, about 2/3rds of they way back from the bow - the hull is a different (higher) surface than the front. Because the boat is a multi hulled boat that leaves an area where if water gets in, it just wants to sit in those pockets. My question is should I use a fillet to fill in those areas so that water does not have the ability to pool there in the future?

Next, the center most stringer was in the very lowest point in the boat. That is the same area where water should drain to and then with gravity make its way to the bilge area. First how does the water make it to that lower point from the sides if there are other stringers in place? Do I need to allow channels for the water to drain through so that it can get to the lowest point or to guide it to the back of the boat and then down to the bilge area? I am also concerned with the placement of the middle stringer as it is in the lowest point of the hull where I would think water would gather before it moves to the bilge area. How can I allow for that drainage path without the risk of rotting out the wood again? I understand that the fiberglass will waterproof the wood but it got to the wood and severely rotted it out already so I am afraid of that happening again. Any thoughts, knowledge or ideas would be greatly appreciated here.

I have also never done grinding before either so I want to make sure I am doing this correctly. I realize it is difficult to see everything in the photos, but how much am I grinding? Do I need to grind down 100% of the interior including the blue they had on there previously or just the area I am going to be applying new fiberglass, or what? There are some areas that are much heavier in old glass do I need to remove all that glass even if it does not affect my stringers or ribs? The boat shell is pretty thinly made so I don't want to over grind anything.

Oh, one last thing I can think of now to ask about, there is a perfectly drilled whole right under the captains area that appears to be a 1/8th inch drill bit size. Can anyone tell me why that is there? I want to put in a fish finder and depth gauge. Is it possible this whole was for one of those at some point? I have not looked into how those install yet so I was not sure if it had to do with something like that. Otherwise I will just fill it in as I glass.

Can anyone think of any other things I should beware of, look for, or need to know at this point? I am using epoxy to glass this back in. I also goofed and cut through the hull in 2 small areas so I will need to repair those too. Forgot it was a multi hulled boat and was not thinking far enough ahead. DUH! Sure which my Grandfather was still alive, he could coach me on this. Well, guys the coaching is left in your hands. I am a 44 yr old woman who is independent and determined so guide me please. View attachment 149891

 

[Deleted member 340796]

Re: My first boat restoration, I need some guidance - PLEASE HELP!

2 of these photos are of the transom (top view and without the top of boat or motor) and you can just see how rotten it was. The other shot is of the bilge area standing behind the boat looking toward the bow. See where the water previously traveled? I am hoping to avoid that in the future. Also along the center of the bilge area was about an 8" wide fiber glassed over channel which had rotten wood in it but I don't think it was designed to have wood in it. I think the wood in it came from other rotten pieces from in front of that area making their way back there as the water drained to the back of the boat toward bilge area. (not sure) DO I need to put that 8" channel back in or just leave the bilge area clear without that?

 

[Deleted member 340796]

Re: My first boat restoration, I need some guidance - PLEASE HELP!

These 2 pictures are of the floor - what a rotted out piece of crap that was. The other question I just came up with was regarding the batter and gas tank. The boat originally had a gas tank as there is a gas cap in the shell. Is it worth the time and money to put one back in or should I just stay with the portable gas tank? I want to install a 3 battery operation. 1 will control the trolling motor alone, the other 2 will control everything else on the boat. What is the best way to install them? I can get measurements but I might also need help figuring out the design of the floor plan. I would like to have a front and back bass fishing seat, the captain and co captain chair, and possibly a bench across the back. Still planning on having the floor lowered in the boat like it was. The boat also had a shelf like cubbu hole on both sides. I can put those back, but I don't have to so that leaves some room for possibly putting rod holders along the sides. Get your juices running - need some ideas or things to look at. Thanks.

 

[TruckDrivingFool]

Re: My first boat restoration, I need some guidance - PLEASE HELP!

Welcome to the iboats and the drydock AJ.

For the grinding take it down to good glass you'll know when you're there, just where you'll need lay new glass to.

The good part of rebuilding a boat is that you can change where the factory went wrong and build it back better and more to suit you. Not sure of your stringer layout but yes you'll want to add limber holes to allow drainage to the bilge. Even with a factory gas filler there may have still been an above deck tank. (I've seen many Starcrafts like this) Once you get things opened up you'll have to just look and see what you have for room to see if you could go with an under deck tank to free up some space. You don't mention a budget but those tanks can get spendy so it may effect your options.

 

[Deleted member 340796]

Re: My first boat restoration, I need some guidance - PLEASE HELP!

Thanks TruckDrivingFool, I have looked at the prices of the tanks and you are correct in their pricing. I think I would rather spend the money on other parts of the project such as a depth/fish finder. Perhaps I will just keep the tank I have and build it into the back seat area I am thinking of. Budget is a concern with almost everyone so it is with me too. Although my first priority is NOT creating an unsafe boat. Today I am getting back at the grinding so your advice there helps and I know what you mean by good glass, have reached some of it already. Thanks also for the drain holes info. That helps a lot with the outer stringers and ribs which I was greatly concerned about. What are your thoughts on the center stringer? It is in the lowest point of the boat. If I glass the stringer in good and then go over it with gel coat (or some type of cover product) will that resolve the problem of water running along that stringer? Also, there was what seemed like a channel with fiberglass over it in the bilge area - does it need to be there? If you look at the photo showing bilge area, battery and gas tank - it is the center 8" or so in the bilge area I am talking about. Can that just be the bottom surface of the hull or is that made that way for strength?:

Thanks again for info and guidance.
AJ.

 

[TruckDrivingFool]

Re: My first boat restoration, I need some guidance - PLEASE HELP!

If you construct your stingers like these diagrams WOG has they will totally sealed and water should be able to find its way to the bilge so long as no bulkeads are blocking the path (just add limber holes as needed to solve this).

I'm not about the channel perhaps some of the more knowledgeable members will chime in about that.

 

[Deleted member 340796]

Re: My first boat restoration, I need some guidance - PLEASE HELP!

That is the diagram that I am following. I spent another whole day grinding yesterday. I am taking today off to spend with the other half and then back at it tomorrow. I hope to be able to finish the grinding tomorrow. Sure am getting tired of not feeling my thumbs. It seems the shell is only about 1/4" thick and I am going for strength without adding too much weight. I am excited and also a bit nervous as I move forward in this project as I have never done anything like this before. I really appreciate your guidance along the way as it makes me feel more secure about what I am doing.

I do have a question about the wood. I have read do not use treated lumber as it is now treated with a property that repels liquid away from it. I also confirmed that with the guy at lowes (this one actually had an IQ and sounded more professional). I also have read on here about using Douglas Fir. Then there is the always spoke of Marine Lumber that is expensive. What is acceptable and what is not? My impression is that I need 2 coats of resin over the wood to seal it and then start with the layers of cloth. Does the wood type actually matter if I am sealing it from the water with resin and cloth? Wouldn't I just want a wood that will soak up the resin?

Thanks,
AJ.

 

[bgc]

Re: My first boat restoration, I need some guidance - PLEASE HELP!

Welcome to the dry dock!

I am no expert nor and I a marine engineer but I'm happy to share what I've learned.

Follow what woodonglass has done.

Decide what wood you are going to use.
My project is a 24' Cuddy that I will have my family on so I used the marine grade from Homestead hardwoods in northern Ohio. I have seen many comments on the quality of the plywood that Arauco is producing.

Choose your resin.
I went with 435 Styrene Resins from US Composites. I have laid 20 gallons at this point and the budget wouldn't support the use of epoxy in the time frame I wanted. When doing a layup with Styrene, do it wet. It bonds stronger chemically that mechanically. Follow woodonglass's method.

Make an air filter for your grinder(make sure it can move plenty of air). I used a Scotchbrite pad after the first grinder burned up, been through 4 so far.

A Tyvek suit, good respirator, disposable latex gloves and some talk will be your best investment.


POST LOTS OF PHOTOS.....

 

[TruckDrivingFool]

Re: My first boat restoration, I need some guidance - PLEASE HELP!

To add on to what bgc said,

PT is a big no no with aluminium boats, glass boats the problem is getting it dried out enough for your resin to stick. I've read it take from a couple months to six months to get it to air dry enough. Regular straight grained Douglas Fir was used in many boats years ago for due to its strength to weight and its somewhat rot resistant qualities. However plywood with its alternating grain layers provides even better strength.

Marine vs. ACX ply is highly debated. I won't delve into all that but IMHO the main difference is the amount of blemishes allowed into the flitches(layers) that the ply is made of. The more blemishes the more voids you will find as you cut your plywood into pieces. Thus it could possibly effect strength and will definitely effect the amount of prep needed to glass. As a DIY wooworker I will say I've been very impressed with the quality for the cost of the Arauco ply I've used this far. I think that gives away my recommendation on which wood to use. The main thing is to make sure you're using plywood that uses exterior glue.

As for the glassing even though he was specifically talking about the deck it's the base for sealing every bit of wood you're going to do and I think it lays it out well so I culled this from this thread.<---worth a read through

To properly do the deck......sand your wood (both sides).....and vacuum it off. Mix some unwaxed resin at 1.5 % mekp or even at 1% (70 deg) and wet out the underside of the deck and all edges.....wet it out good. .....wait till its tacky and starting to cure. Then mix some resin at the proper 2% cat rate and 4 % wax....and glass a layer of 1.5 oz. to the bottom of the deck.....let cure.​

Now I'm not one to argue with Oops! but I and many others leave the wax out. Not to mention your cat rate will may take some adjustment due to weather condition differences.

Due to the last statement and the fact that everyone on here seems to have there own method of laying glass that works for them I can't recommend strongly enough that if you are new to FGing you DO SOME TEST RUNS ON SOME SCRAP FIRST. I was given that advice and didn't take it until I had problems and had to restart on my transom board. After using the scrapped trans to try many different systems I found what worked for me.

 

[TruckDrivingFool]

Re: My first boat restoration, I need some guidance - PLEASE HELP!

Here is a better explanation of the wax thing it's from the same thread linked above but thought it prudent to point it out.

That thread really is a good research read for first timers.

 

[bgc]

Re: My first boat restoration, I need some guidance - PLEASE HELP!

TruckDrivingFool made a GREAT point, practice before you start in the boat. My first two batches of resin didn't kick. I've also had the cloth not cooperate with my plan, it kept lifting off the outside corner.

At the shop I always approach with the idea that someone will be out on the water, be it myself or the next owner. Go at your project maliciously and you'll be happy.

 

[Deleted member 340796]

Re: My first boat restoration, I need some guidance - PLEASE HELP!

Wow, thanks guys. I read a lot of places on different types of resins and which is best and it seems it totally depends on who you talk to. I was initially going poly resin then decided I needed the extra strength of epoxy so I split the difference and went with Raka epoxy (900 medium viscocity) resin. PLEASE do not tell me that is a problem cause I have already purchased and gotten it. :facepalm: Anyhow, I also read about the Douglas Fir for strength and will probably shoot for that in the stringers but the difficult thing here in Mississippi (which I hate) is finding resources. Living here is like living in the 70s, they are not use to the computer or Internet yet so they avoid it like the plague.

I also found the tool I think you referred to in your build Truck that is $10 something at Home Depot and works with the sanding head which is much faster. I went through one of them already - seems I grinded too much on the bolt that holds paper down. Anyhow, I am off today to get another one of them and hopefully do my final day of grinding. Respirator - check, gloves - check, eye protection - check, shorts and t-shirt - check oops - mistake. Second day of it I tried using powder and it worked much better but today I will use the arm protectors I purchased online too. I sweat enough that the thought of wearing long pants and long sleeve shirt could give me a heat stroke. I would get one of the suits just think it might be too hot also, but may be worth it. Strongly considering it.

Anyone know if my Raka 900 has wax in it that I need to consider? Also what I got was a A+B = C so do I need to think about MEPK (catalyst)? I think I just need the A and B but I might be wrong. I also got the silca, and other agents to make PB. Home Depot told me they do not have exterior plywood that is NOT pressure treated. So there are 2 other places I will check but like I said, MS sucks. Unfortunately it looks like scattered storms the next few days. Today is the last dry day called for here until Fri or Sat then it looks like more rain next week. I was hoping to be done with them by the end of June. RRRRRRR Well, better get on it. Keep throwing me things to look at and consider. I really appreciate it. I read through your rebuilt Truck and it was very helpful. Good Job.


Oh, and I do take lots of photos, just when I go back and look at them they don't show the story as well as those I see on here. Guess I need to work on better photos too. lol

 

[TruckDrivingFool]

Re: My first boat restoration, I need some guidance - PLEASE HELP!

I barely have experience with poly so I'm not much help on the epoxy. Don't suppose you can return it can you? Using epoxy will really add to your cost but I suppose if you already have enough its a moot point.

The only epoxy help I can give comes from internet reading and watching the fellow at redbarnboats who uses epoxy in his boat builds. Skim through the list in the link and you should be able to find his episodes where he is working with it they may be of some help.

1.The epoxies don't use MEKP just the two parts that get mixed together. Follow Raka's mixing directions. I'd still do some small batch trial runs to get a feel for working with it.
2.You get longer working times which is nice but you also have longer drying time so this will limit what you can get done in a day.
3.I don't know if its the different cloths that are used but epoxy seems to go further thus smaller batches are required to be mixed. Ex. where we talk of mixing pints/quarts with poly most epoxy talks of mixing ounces/cups.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: My first boat restoration, I need some guidance - PLEASE HELP!

RAKA 900 epoxy is some very good stuff! Epoxy never has wax in it. You do NOT use mat with epoxy only cloth. 8 oz cloth is what I'd use. You might consider using some 20ft sticks of 3/4" pvc pipe along with some "T's" and an 20ft tarp from harbor Freight and make your self a cover for your boat so you can work in the rain a bit. Something like this one....

Epoxy is a lot more forgiving than Poly with temps and humidity. Just don't get it wet. Ask HD or Lowes if they have Plywood Floor Underlayment. It will have 0% voids and uses 100% waterproof glue. Good stuff to use for Transoms, stringers and decks. With epoxy you have to "BabySit" it more on verticals cuz it doesn't set up as fast and will run down onto the hull and off the stringer so you constantly have to brush or roll it back up on to the vertical surface to keep the cloth wetted out and saturated with resin. PITA. You can mix some silica in to help with that if you want.

 

[Deleted member 340796]

Re: My first boat restoration, I need some guidance - PLEASE HELP!

Wood, that is a great idea. I do want to keep working on this despite the rain and right now we live at an apartment. Oh how I miss my house. How did you attach the pvc pipes on the outside of the boat?

I went to Home Depot this morning and spoke to yet another sales person. They DO have the plywood I need. He said it is the stuff labelled RTD and he did not know what that stood for but that was NOT pressure treated but DID use exterior glue. Do you think I should take the underlayment plywood instead of the RTD?

Next I asked about Douglass Fir which they do have in 1 bis which I can laminate together to make 2 bis but it is sold per foot. Or the other options are Yellow Pine or Spruce. The strongest according to him is the Fir, next is the Spruce which only comes in 2 x 4s and last is the Yellow Pine. What are your thoughts on those???? I have not measured but everything that came out of the boat appeared to be 2 x 4s some cut way down to almost a 2 x 2. I will need to do some measuring to figure out how much wood, but what are your thoughts on which to use?

I am just taking a break from grinding right now. I am determined to finish today with the grinding. Only have about 1/8th of the boat to go so that is good, but oh my body is killing me. :facepalm: Next boat I buy will be alum. No more fiberglass boats. LOL. Someone has worked on the back of this boat before as there are so many bubbles in the fiberglass I am taking off. Also, I will get a photo but I see spider cracks around the bolt holes where the motor mounts. Hmmm, what do I need to do to fix that? There are also multiple scrapes in the exterior of the boat that I might eventually fix (this winter or next) right not I just would like to get on the water and have fun.

Next question, I was reading Truck's thread about his boat restoration and saw something about wrapping the transom wood in cloth. I previously saw the video by FriscoJarretts and I thought it showed gluing two pieces of wood (3/4") together, then apply 2 coats resin to seal it, then tab it into boat with (he used 1708, but I read don't use 1708 with epoxy so I got 1700 for tabbing - is that ok??? then after tabbing wood into boat cover entire wood with 8 oz csm but I think what I got was 10 oz csm. Are those ok? Not sure they take returns or exchanges. I also got 15 gallons of epoxy. I was planning on using resin as my adhesive. Do I need to totally encase the wood before attaching it to the transom in the boat, or 1 side of it and the edges, or do it as I described above? What are your thoughts on the 10oz and 1700 that I got, will they work???

Oh, one more question. When I am done with the grinding and before I start epoxying things in the boat, do I have to use Acetone or will Mineral Spirits work? Just curious.

Ok, gotta get back at it. The neighbors are not doing it for me. Thanks for all the info. I really, really appreciate it. I will add photos later tonight or first thing in the morning.

 

[Deleted member 340796]

Re: My first boat restoration, I need some guidance - PLEASE HELP!

So I almost got the grinding done yesterday. I still have a little bit to finish up but I am very pleased with my progress. Here are a few photos I took. Unfortunately the photos of the cracks around the motor bolt holes did not show the cracks so I will try to retake those. Let me know what you think. Thanks.

 

[Deleted member 340796]

Re: My first boat restoration, I need some guidance - PLEASE HELP!

Here are the photos of cracks I spoke of. How should I deal with these?

 

[Deleted member 340796]

Re: My first boat restoration, I need some guidance - PLEASE HELP!

OH NO, tell me I didn't look you guys! YIKES that would put a scary turn to this restoration project. Truck, Wood you out there? Miss hearing from you all. I read more on both of your previous posts and I feel like we are neighbors. LOL. Wood, you keep going with that Granddaughter. I got my start with my Grandfather when I was 8 yrs old under a car. That progressed on over the years and here I am trying a boat restoration for my first time. Unfortunately I lost my Grandfather 2 yrs ago, but I think about him a lot. I sure wish he was here to coach me through this project. Wonderful man and I miss him so much. My other Grandfather I lost a number of years ago to Cancer but he too got me going in DIY stuff. I helped him add on a bathroom and he let me do all the plumbing, much of the hammering and more. Those 2 guys shaped who I am. I really enjoyed reading a little comment here and there about your Granddaughter - it brought back good memories!

Well I just finished off the grinding. I am just about to go out with the dremel and get at the corners. I have to say I will not be sorry to see this part of the project come to an end. With my degenerating spine and the swelling from doing so much work, I have not felt my hands in a week and that makes it hard to type. LOL.

So guys, what do I do about those spider cracks in the transom? Once I get the corners ground out I will take the boat to the car wash and spray it clean then take some more photos. The worst part of living at an apartment is all the stuff I need is in storage, and I can even find a water hose. urrrgh.

Can't wait to start making my templates for the transom and stringers. YAH!

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: My first boat restoration, I need some guidance - PLEASE HELP!

I'm still here, just takes a bit to get to everyone. Do those cracks go all the way through the outer skin of the transom? Regardless, I'd recommend using a Dremel and opening them up a bit. that way when you PB in the Transom it will fill them in. We can talk about the outside if they're there, later. For your transom build, use Titebond III wood Glue to laminate the two piece together. Wood screw em tight over night. Next day remove the screws. Coat the wood with a heavy coat of resin and use only about 1% MEKP so it will NOT set up to fast Do this early in the morning or late in the evening when the temps are down. You want it to really soak into to wood. Make sure and double coat the edges. Pre cut a layrer of 1.5 oz CSM so it's about 1 1/2" bigger than the transom. Once the resin tacks up coat the transom again with a light coat of resin and roll the csm into the resin making sure it overlaps the edges 1 1/2 inches. Use your hands to tug and pull and tear the edges of the CSM so it's HAIRY. Take a chip Brush soaked in resin and dab the Hairy mat ove the edges to seal them. DON't over roll the resin and DON'T use to much. It's easier to add more than it is to take it off. Once one side is done flip it over and do the exact same thing to the other side. You are now ready to mix up your PB and install the transom. Refer to the drawings in the first link in my signature below.

 

[Deleted member 340796]

Re: My first boat restoration, I need some guidance - PLEASE HELP!

Ok, so got the sanding/grinding done and the boat washed out. Took a good look at the outside and saw a bit more exterior work than I thought was needed. I thought I could get away with just doing the inside of the boat and worrying about repainting later - maybe in the winter. Now it looks more like that is not going to happen. I think I am going to have to flip the bottom of the boat and redo the exterior now. I have not done any research on this part of the work so I can use all the info regarding how to go about fixing the outside/bottom of the boat. Any good threads you all know of on here about working on the exterior part of the hull?

This is where the motor bolts were attached, there is also spider cracks on the inside and outside of both bolt holes.


Bottom of hull at base of transom near bilge drain.


Deep scratches all along the bottom of the hull.


I can't even begin to figure out what they did here.


Lots of places on the bottom of hull I can see light through. Should I flip the boat at this point and repair the bottom first or can I make these stronger by adding layers inside?




Wood,
Yes, there are cracks on the exterior side of the transom also. Since they cracks go through to the outside also is there a different way to handle it, or should I still do just 1 side at a time?

Would you agree I might be better off flipping the boat over like you did yours and fixing the exterior before starting the transom?

If your answer is yes, it seems there are 3 kinds of repairs needed on the bottom of the boat.
1) Old patches the PO made that are either thin or in serious need of repair,
2) long thin scratches that allow light to show through, and
3) the spider cracks around motor mount holes.

I am going to try to review some threads to get a feel for what to do with them. Wood, you mentioned using MEKP when I do the transom. Will I still need MEKP with the Raka 900 medium epoxy? Thanks.