My 84 4winns horizon 195 project.

Pmt133

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So the long and short is this will hopefully be a simple floor replacement project... but we all know how that goes. I know of some damage areas under the floor I discovered in the back but don't know the extent of it and won't until the floor comes up.

The good? The floor is only really soft right in the back where you land climbing over the transom... the spots that always get wet. The cockpit vinyl was replaced 20 years ago but the rest of the upholstery is original to the boat, carpet, cabin, ect. It recently started showing its age the 2 years so it is time... the goal is memorial day weekend. The reality is it'll most likely be 4th of July weekend.

My job does rotating shifts so I pretty much always have either 3 or 5 days a week to work on it. I don't have much else going on in my life right this second so I can dedicate most of that time to it... so my goal is plausible. Also, the boat is in a heated garage... so no excuses as I would say.

And now the short history of the boat:
It was dad's. I'll forever be blamed for him having to sell his favorite boat because I was born. It's a running joke but it did hurt him a bit. Between that boat and this one he had some 10 other boats. Figure that was late 1996 to early 1998. When he was a mechanic and saw this model hit the market he really did love the styling. He also really liked the liberators of the time as well. I don't disagree, it's a pretty good looking boat in my opinion but not of the popular one I'm sure.

So from 98 until now... this has been my life of boating. In 2010 he got the 33' and this was pulled from water storage which it was kept in from about 2002 until then. It was back in for another season or two since by me. I officially took ownership in 2013.

We did a repower in 2003 as the original 140 rotted internally on the block somewhere. Head was fine deck was good etc. During that era in the 80s he remembered a lot of 140s having a similar issue when run and stored in salt. Not super common but it did happen. So she got a fresh 3.0l and ran better than ever up until last year.

Last year I decided enough was enough with the 3.0l and did a 4.3l swap. (Short summary here) basically this is what this boat should've always come with in my opinion. The 3.0l worked but you were pushing it to get the boat moving. Cruise was 3300 rpms otherwise you'd be falling off plane and that was a measly 23-25 mph GPS. Not bad with one person on board but you throw 4 guys and a cooler or two (a common occurrence) and you were full send just to get the thing to plane.

Boat always did 36-37 up top with the 3.0l and in the crisp spring/fall air you could squeeze 38 mph flat at 4700 with a full tank and driver. I've only gotten it there twice and that was with "mineshaft" air as you'd call it in racing. For the most part 34mph wide open was the norm. But it did it. You can also imagine how loud a 3.0l running all the time like that was and how it developed some blow by near the end of life. Compression and leak down were still decent so I sold the engine to recoup money from the 4.3l swap.

Some other fun facts, the gen 1 (well R drive as the serial number falls in the 83 range) on the boat was actually a mix match of parts. The upper was build by dad from parts he had at the shop that were, and I quote: "never to be used in a customer's boat, but for free I'd give it a shot in something of mine" and included the housing as well well (boat had no drive when he bought it) 800 hours later or so I'd say that it had worked out well for him. The upper now was obtained with the 4.3l is isn't in as good of shape as the one it replaced. But we no longer have the tools to swap the parts from one to the other so it'll have to work.

The lower was the same thing but is an older MC-1 (rounded AV plate) which is actually off of his original 1977 boat. The lower was not sketch, and built with quote "good parts." I have no issue keeping it as the case is pretty much new looking but it is obviously a preload pin lower. So something to keep in mind.

Other than that, the goal is to put it back how it was. If everything lasted 40 years as it is there is no reason to go reinventing the wheel. Hopefully I get another 40 from this work and it'll all be worth it. A lot of memories, friends and good times were had aboard. And I want to continue with that tradition.

This is day one, getting it in the garage last night. The plan is to run the heaters for a few days as I pull the interior apart. Then cut and assess what I'm really working on sometime next week. Obligatory day 1 picture in the garage on blocks. Note the front block is off center. It is actually the second set of front blocks. The ones behind it are centered on the hull.
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She has a couple small battle scars but overall is a clean boat. Hope to pull apart the interior Wednesday when I am off again.
 

Pmt133

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Jan 6, 2022
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303
Since I haven't started pulling it apart yet and it's just sitting in the garage, I've just included a a few action shots from this season instead lol.
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Above is the first outing of the season. Took her out my birthday weekend after working some 96 hours straight the days leading up to it. This is pre repower.

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Dad going for the second "personal" bay test after the repower. Came back grinning ear to ear.

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Our annual lake trip. This is post having the repower rebuilt after finding some damage and my popping through the intake fiasco.

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Date night. We also met up with some friends on the water this day. The bay was really clean as we got flushed out with some 12 inches of rain the 3 days prior. Note the board on the floor and floor mat. That is covering my access to the fill/return fuel lines from the tank from when I did the repower. Don't mind the mess of ropes either. I was going through everything deciding what to keep and throw out prior to the photo.

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Last run of the season.

Hoping to jump on pulling apart the interior tomorrow so I will have some shots of the disassembly.
 

Lou C

Supreme Mariner
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Nov 10, 2002
Messages
12,070
Nice older FW I think if you're up for it, worth the rebuild, nice cuddys are hard to find.
 

Pmt133

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Jan 6, 2022
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303
So today I got to working. The goal was to get the interior out.

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First thing was first, I brought the engine to the machine shop so they could figure out if I am leaking water or not.
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Next step, get out all the crap.
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More crap
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Still more...
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Pulled out the seat boxes... Now at this point, I had always thought the floor was rotted under the port box... Turns out I was very wrong. Also note dirt on side panels...
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Quick spray 9 of the side panels. At this point I am hitting the whole deck with a screwdriver... Only area I can go through is exactly where I know of the soft spots... Last third of the deck. Everything up front is rock solid.... Which is making me feel slightly better...
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Fun find, duplicate of the HIN as I am pulling out trim.
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How are these for a throwback. They still work fine and sound decent. Music is music after all. Been in the boat as long as I can remember and in other vehicles of dad's too. Radioshack was pretty cool. I still own a band pass sub of theirs that actually sounds quite good. Seemed to be a pioneer unit... I've gone off topic....
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And at this point I stopped for the day. I reached my goal so I let it be. I got offered some overtime at work tomorrow so far as I am concerned... That pays for some materials. Next day work will be getting the carpet out and maybe pulling the transom assembly. Transom seems good and I did a few core tests earlier in the year but I still want to double check. I am indifferent about the transom assembly as it doesn't leak... but at 40 years old, maybe it's a good idea. And it will make it easier to blast and repaint.
Carpet color.jpg
Also, for the side panels I am thinking of using a grey carpet to replace the checked pattern and to replace the carpet with more or less the same carpet. Looking around online it seems multiple vendors have a very close color, shown above. The boat carpet shown is still slightly faded compared to under the seats, but that swatch is a near match in my opinion.

My next work day will most likely be Monday as I probably won't have the time tomorrow and I am on shift Friday-Sunday. Now it is time to go cook some dinner.
 

todhunter

Canoeist
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Sep 15, 2020
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Just beware that the "screwdriver test" only works if there is no fiberglass over the deck (this would be bad) or if the fiberglass is very thin. The deck on my boat was rotten, and the top layer of glass was so thick there is no way I could poke a screwdriver through it by hand to test the wood underneath.
 

Lou C

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Also whether the deck needs replacing or not I’d strongly consider ditching all the carpet on the deck. When I re did mine in 2006/2007 I had the deck gel coated in non skid gel coat & threw out all that nasty moisture trapping carpet. 17 years later (boat is stored outside all the time, but always covered), the deck is still solid. I would never put carpet over a wood cored boat deck. It holds moisture & causes rot.
 

Pmt133

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Just beware that the "screwdriver test" only works if there is no fiberglass over the deck (this would be bad) or if the fiberglass is very thin. The deck on my boat was rotten, and the top layer of glass was so thick there is no way I could poke a screwdriver through it by hand to test the wood underneath.
Which is why I'll still be cutting and assessing. If I cut and drill test holes that are good up front then I'm leaving that alone depending on what I find further back underneath. But yes, proper assessment needs to be done still.
Also whether the deck needs replacing or not I’d strongly consider ditching all the carpet on the deck. When I re did mine in 2006/2007 I had the deck gel coated in non skid gel coat & threw out all that nasty moisture trapping carpet. 17 years later (boat is stored outside all the time, but always covered), the deck is still solid. I would never put carpet over a wood cored boat deck. It holds moisture & causes rot.
I have a love hate with it. The thing is 40 years old at this point. It made it this far before having issues so I don't want to change what works per say. They did offer the boat in a sport variant with a wash down deck but just didn't look right to me. So I don't know. EVA is absolutely crap after having friends with it. It looks great but man it doesn't hold up more than a few years. And it still holds moisture too. Ideally I'd be doing gelcoat with an outdoor snap in carpet I remove at the end of an outing. But I am still not 100% sure what direction to go. I am leaning, like I said... to leave it the way it is.
 

chevymaher

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Mar 29, 2017
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I like my carpet. My boat literally had water in it when I got it. Deck didnt rot. It was the stringers and transom. Real secret it just take care of it. Boat carpet dries from a t storm in a hour in the sun.
 

Pmt133

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I like my carpet. My boat literally had water in it when I got it. Deck didnt rot. It was the stringers and transom. Real secret it just take care of it. Boat carpet dries from a t storm in a hour in the sun.
It does seem like the complete uncut pile does do better with not holding moisture. You can see there is a pretty noticeable difference between the two in the photo. It also helps with wear and tear...
 

Lou C

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Long Island is a damp climate yesr round except if it gets really cold in the winter. I had the original carpet in mine & it never dried out under the rear seat or the seat pedestals up front. You could clearly see that is where all the rot started. So, no carpet for me. So far my partial rebuild done in 2006/07 outlasted the original construction with carpet, by the time the boat was about 14 years old it was shot.
Maybe if you live in Ca, NV or AZ carpet is ok here I’d toss it in the trash.
 

Pmt133

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So I did a little more today. Goal was get all the old carpet out... I didn't do that but I did get the fuel tank out so that's a plus. The bad?

Well, since I was able to core sample the bottom of the stringers I did... and... nothing. Now there was no delamination or anything through most of the boat which probably saved it as the fiberglass was probably supplying most of the strength at this point. I will say the deck is in fact rock solid and the foam is dry. So when it happened it was probably years ago. So now I am just mentally preparing for a full gut which I originally anticipated but got a little ahead of myself on...

I didn't really take any pictures but here is what I did...20240226_213410[1].jpg
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At a quick glance it looks like only the engine bulk head is rough... but the stringers behind the fuel tank box aren't doing much stringering...

Edit:
I also poked a few more holes down by the garboard drain. The wood may have been wet at one time but was still there and came out solid. Looks like old wood. I will pull the transom assembly and investigate. If it all looks good around the hole I will reseal and reinstall. No need to do more than what is needed...
 

Pmt133

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Jan 6, 2022
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Didn't do a ton today but got the carpet out. Looks like it'll need everything. Transom seems pretty good but there are spots that aren't. My question is, would you replace the bad or just gut and redo the whole transom? I don't think too many peeps are dropping in but figured I would ask. I probably won't get back on it until the weekend.

Some pictures from today:
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todhunter

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Sep 15, 2020
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Yep, you need to do a full transom replacement and glass the inside of the keyhole on the new transom.
 

Pmt133

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My next working day is going to be cradle and brace the boat then bust out the floor and foam. Day after that will be stringers. Then transom. Some point in there I'll grab wood. I'm also going to place an order for glass supplies. Seems US composites is the most reasonable though I have a few local places to check out. I'll price out the marine ply vs good exterior ply and see if it's worth the extra. It's not a ton of wood so if it isn't that bad I'll just spring for the good stuff...

I'll keep you all posted.
 

Pmt133

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Didn't do much this weekend. My girl celebrated her 7th birthday (leap day baby lol). So we lowered the front blocking and tarped in the boat so demolition doesn't fill the whole garage with dust.

I have to ask, if I use a 4 foot straight edge on the chines and block the outside chine every 3 feet keeping it level and then do the full length lifting strake inside, that should provide adequate support when I do pull everything, correct? I'd have loved to build a cradle but it would have been impossible to get it off the trailer and into the garage on it... it is down about a 25 degree incline and I'd only level in the garage. While I could've done it... it would've been not the safest lol.

A couple shots:
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Probably going to clean up next visit and maybe get some more block.
 
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