Mushy Stringer Blues...When is it Not Worth Fixing???

[hisport]

Need some advice. Is rebuilding a $500 boat crazy, or not? Is it going to cost a bundle in materials whether the boat is valuable or not?

Funny, if it had been a 30' sailboat, I would have been all over it with a rubber mallet, clipboard, flashlight, etc.

But an old ('73 Dixie Boat Works) 14' fiberglass v hull open fishing boat? I figured there wasn't much there to go wrong. Big mistake.

Now that its apart, I find that the hull bottom stringer pockets are "empty", and the whole thing is a flexible noodle. Studying this (wonderful!!) forum, looks like just materials alone (epoxy resin, cloth, mat, plywood,foam, paint, etc) are going to be north of $750. Is this right, or is my math way off? I don't mind spending some time on it, but would hate to put alot of $ into something foolishly.

Not even sure if these little Dixie boats were any good when new, but the size and weight (~400 lbs) is about perfect for towing behind our VW Westfalia and fishing the local camping lakes here in Blue Ridge NC. And, the little tilt trailer, 25 evinrude electric, and mguide trolling motor alone are worth about what I paid for the boat ($800).

Are there new little simple 14" ish lightweight fiberglass v hull fishing boats available? Whats a reasonable price for a decent quality one?

Thanks!

 

[T748]

Re: Mushy Stringer Blues...When is it Not Worth Fixing???

You should ask these questions down in the "Boat Restoration, Building and Hull Repair" section. Everyone down there has asked themselves these questions at least once.
My 2 cents on this is this. Rebuild it only if yes to ALL of the following questions. Do you really love the boats design? Are you willing to spend ALOT of time/labor on it, like maybe more than a year until it's floatable? Are you willing to spend more on it than you will ever could get out of it? Do you like doing projects that will take up alot of free time just for the sake of being a project? If no to any of those, walk away. It's impossible to tell how much your yours will take to fix up. Especially with no pictures. Take what ever number your best guess is and double it. If your just wanting a basic 14' fishing boat, I would buy an aluminum boat for under a grand and be happy. If your a do it yourselfer, like projects and you are definitly not in a hurry to hit the water, go for it! -Tom.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: Mushy Stringer Blues...When is it Not Worth Fixing???

Post some pix of your boat.

T748 has it close, IMHO, but if you can say yes to MOST of his questions, particularly the 1st, you could spend about $1000 & have a decent fishing rig w/ out many bells & whistles. But if this boat when finished still won't meet your needs, your family or how you'll use the boat, it won't be a very satisfying project no matter how much you enjoy projects. And be hard to be dedicated to finishing.

Costs depends on your needs/wants on a fishing boat. Beyond getting it water safe, that's tough to estimate not seeing it's current condition. As far as finishing getting it water ready, costs depends on how you'll finish out the interior: Un-upholstered bench seats VS inexpensive CL fishing seats (that may need vinyl work) VS Walmart low cost seats VS High back/high dollar fishing seats & pedestals from Cabela's.

Unless you find a great deal on a decent boat that's already fully rigged w/ all the fishing accessories, you'd end up spending the money for them, or not. I wouldn't include it in the costs to get this boat water ready for fishing.

Low cost aluminum boat is a good choice too.

Welcome to the iboats dry dock

 

[Teamster]

Re: Mushy Stringer Blues...When is it Not Worth Fixing???

If you don't re-build the one you have maybe look for a Tuffy of Lakeland from the late 80's into the 90's,..

Both built solid small fiberglass fishing boats,........

 

[hisport]

Re: Mushy Stringer Blues...When is it Not Worth Fixing???

Thanks for all the good advice! Great forum.

Attached are some pics. '73 Dixie 14' fishing boat. Looks OK, but ahem....:cold:

I do like the little Dixie, but am still trying to work the arithmetic. If fixing it will cost more than a decent replacement boat, then it doesn't make much sense to proceed. Thing is, I don't know much about the cost of redoing a little fishing boat.

With sailboats, full restoration is only worthwhile if the boat is intrinsically valuable. In other words, it costs as much to restore a worthless old Hunter as it does a prized Cabo Rico, but only the Cabo is worth restoring. Ditto an old Yamaha motorcycle, vs a rare Ducati. Things I know about.

I'd like a dead simple and basic fishing boat; tiller steering. I sought out a lightweight fiberglass boat, because I'm not a fan of tin (hot and noisy. Had a Duranautic years ago). Since then, lake runabouts, sailboats, and salt water power boats (two Gradys; a McKee Craft).

But if fixing what I've got will cost way more than, say, $500 in materials, then probably a non starter, unless y'all tell me the little old Dixie is really worth restoring.

Appreciate the alternate boat brand ideas as well. I am even considering a 14' McKee, though that is a v heavy little boat.

 

[Grub54891]

Re: Mushy Stringer Blues...When is it Not Worth Fixing???

I'd fix it up,but thats just me. Check out the motor first,make it run well. Then move on to the hull. $500.00 isnt much to spend,on a boat you like. Remember,a boat is just that,a boat. It's hard to recover what ya got into it,but the joy of saying this is mine and this is what I did to it and how I use it is worth it in my opinion. I'm restoring a17' 1985 larson and I know some will say are you crazy? But it's mine and I like it. Go ahead buy something else. I'm sure there will be $500.00 in different issues. I hope I don't come off as a smart a** not intended that way,just my opinion.
Grub

 

[GT1000000]

Re: Mushy Stringer Blues...When is it Not Worth Fixing???

Hi and welcome to the Iboats Dry Dock, hisport...
I'll throw my 2? into the ring...
Depending on everything that has already mentioned...
If you have a local marine supply house where you could get your fiberglass materials from at a decent price and a good lumber house with decent prices, you might be able to rebuild this boat for about 500 in materials...kind of depends on what else lies underneath and how much more structure you'd have to replace, along with how much more you'd have to tear out to get to it...
Unfortunately there are no hard and fast rules when it comes to restoring anything...as I am sure you are well aware of...
If all you have to replace is the deck and transom, you could realistically have it done in a month or two of weekends and evenings worth of your labor...
It is hard to tell, but is there anything else between the hull and the interior of the boat, besides the fore deck I see in one of the pics?
If not, then from the looks of it then all you would need is a new transom, some deck support structure and a new deck...???
Maybe you wouldn't have to tear out much more than that, which might make it a viable and quick put back...
You could do the basics of restructuring the boat to make it useable and safe, then as time, money and the desire to keep using it grow, you can continue to improve it...
Whether or not the boat is worth it, Blue Book values are probably non-existent, personal value could be sky high...
You could search for a fiberglass boat that won't require a complete restore, but those are the proverbial needle in a haystack and unless you are very lucky and willing to pay top dollar for one, you might spend a very looooong time looking for one...
Unfortunately, most boats that are more than a few years old and have been poorly cared for will fall into the "needs a restoration" category...
Good Luck and Have Fun!
GT1M

 

[T748]

Re: Mushy Stringer Blues...When is it Not Worth Fixing???

Thanks for posting some pictures. This boat looks like it could be done for less time and money than I was thinking. If it was me, I'd fix it up. Especially since your not into the tin boat thing. -Tom.

 

[pckeen]

Re: Mushy Stringer Blues...When is it Not Worth Fixing???

Here's another option. If your motor and controls are good, and you find another hull that is in better shape, you could treat this boat as a donor boat.

 

[Chris_94_Sprint_TX]

Re: Mushy Stringer Blues...When is it Not Worth Fixing???

Welcome to forums. There is a wealth of information here and the men and women that contain it are a great group of people. They will help as much as humanly possible. I would restore the boat because as others have said there is a sense of pride when its completed and its always something that if you have kids that are old enough they could help with some of the work and learn the techniques plus when its handed down they can say I built this with my dad or my mom. To me that makes any project worth the time and the money, just because you put say 500 in buying the boat, 1500 in fixing and rebuilding the boat but can only get 800 from selling the boat doesn't mean that a project isn't worth it. If I put 3 times the amount of money into restoring a boat or a car but I can do it with my 2 boys and then pass it down to them the money well spent and doesn't really even matter about the cost.

I'd fix it up,but thats just me. Check out the motor first,make it run well. Then move on to the hull. $500.00 isnt much to spend,on a boat you like. Remember,a boat is just that,a boat. It's hard to recover what ya got into it,but the joy of saying this is mine and this is what I did to it and how I use it is worth it in my opinion. I'm restoring a17' 1985 larson and I know some will say are you crazy? But it's mine and I like it. Go ahead buy something else. I'm sure there will be $500.00 in different issues. I hope I don't come off as a smart a** not intended that way,just my opinion.
Grub

I agree. I am doing an 85 Sea Ray its probably not worth what I plan on doing with it but like you said, "its mine and I did all this to it to get it looking like this.

Chris

 

[hisport]

Re: Mushy Stringer Blues...When is it Not Worth Fixing???

What an excellent group of folks on this forum!

Believe I will restore this ol' boat just for the fun of being involved with this restoration group.:joyous:

In no particular order:

- This Dixie 14' is an open fishing boat. The pictures show a home brewed foredeck (3/4 plywood, 2x6's(!!), seat pedestal, etc). All this was covered with soggy indoor/outdoor carpet. My plan was to tear it all out (now done) and return boat to original layout. Problem is that underlying boat structure (stringers; thwart uprights, keelson, stem, lower transom) have gone to mush.:blue: My challenge is to repair with a semi sane $/time investment

- I already refurbished the (87 lb, 22 cubic inch '76 Evinrude 25 electric longshaft outboard). Seems to run fine now. Ditto the MG bow mount trolling motor. Trailer seems fine, though I'll probably paint/rewire

- I've searched 100 mile radiusl ads for a replacement lightweight 14' fiberglass boat without much luck. They're all tin...No hits on the brands suggested. Couple heavyweights (eg boston whaler), but i'd like a light and simple little 25hp lake/pond boat

- Structural survey:

Talk about hindsight! :facepalm:
Examing the hull, looks like maybe 2 or 4 longitudinal stringers in boat floor; I'd guess something like 1" x 4" x ~13', with maybe T shaped keel (1x4 teeing a 1x2?) joining transom (3/4? with 1 1/2" doubler at top outboard mount) and stem (2 x 2?) Lower 1/3 of transom is wet. No longitudinal structure in hull sides (~just 3/16 thick fiberglass), other than extruded aluminum popriveted gunwhale/toprail. Thwarts (3); fore and aft are foam filled plywood boxes (rotted uprights); center thwart is a fiberglass livewell. All are tabbed to boat bottom, and will have to come out to get at stringer pockets.

Questions:

1. Is using $$$$ epoxy resin a sound plan?

(Seems poly resin may be cheaper and might go more quickly?? Is epoxy worth the expense and added time?).

2. Will all the following restoration material be required for JUST a 14' open boat?

(I'm guesstimating (after doing homework on this form) 3 - 5 gallons of resin, plus 12 yards (38") 10 oz cloth, 25 yds x 4" cloth tape, 6 yards roving mat, 3 sheets AC ext plywood (2 x 3/4 and 1 x 3/8 ??), gallon cabosil, qt 1/2" fibers, gallon topside paint, gallon hull paint, mixing containers, cleanup mek? solvent, gloves, respirator, etc).

3. Assume BASIC process is to cut/laminate plywood to duplicate original wood structural members?

(Cut out and remove thwarts. Cut top off hull floor stringer and keel pockets. Cut inside glass and remove transom wood. Clean out all mush. Layout and cut replacements in A/C ext plywood. Laminate plywwod with epoxy/cabosil adhesive. Trial fit. Paint plywood with epoxy to waterproof. Bed plywood in "peanut butter" epoxy mix ~ 1/4" off fiberglass boat skin. Tab in place and glass over, all in one work session

4. Whats the best way to keep the original boat shape while replacing structure?

(Its already a noodle, and seems to be "hogged", as the keel is ~2" concave amidships with the boat flipped over. Should I just set it on a level floor with level blocking? Assume keel should be pretty much level with shop floor??)

5. I ordered the book "Runabout Restoration" (Jim Anderson) before finding this forum. Is this book worthwhile? I think its kinda' old (1992)

I'll post some more pictures later

 

[Teamster]

Re: Mushy Stringer Blues...When is it Not Worth Fixing???

I didn't realize where you were until after I posted,.

Anyway,..Here is an example of a Tuffy that I referenced,..

Tuffy 14.5' Fishing Boat and 25 HP Merc

And a Lakeland or two,...

15' Lakeland with tilt trailer no motor

Lakeland 1470 Pro 14Ft

 

[Chris_94_Sprint_TX]

Re: Mushy Stringer Blues...When is it Not Worth Fixing???

As far as replacing the stringers and transom, there is a user here that has made several youtube videos and posted them. he goes by the username Friscoboater. The videos are of his Sea Ray but I would venture a guess to say the job wouldn't be much different for your boat.

Chris

 

[sheboyganjohn]

Re: Mushy Stringer Blues...When is it Not Worth Fixing???

To answer a couple of questions, I built a boat from scratch and used epoxy, I will be restoring a Sea Ray and will use poly. The epoxy may be better over all in strength and waterproofness (is that even a word?) but with a poly boat, poly would be fine going back in. Besides that, the epoxy will stick to poly, but the poly will not properly stick to the epoxy, so once you go with epoxy, you have to stick with it, and gel coat will not stick to it so you are then stuck painting anything you epoxy.

As for the book runabout restoration, it was a good book prior to the wide spread use of the internet. It is still a good read, but you will bet much better info off the forums. I still re read my copy every once in a while just for entertainment.

 

[GT1000000]

Re: Mushy Stringer Blues...When is it Not Worth Fixing???

I will try to answer some of your questions below, in RED...

What an excellent group of folks on this forum!

Believe I will restore this ol' boat just for the fun of being involved with this restoration group.:joyous:

In no particular order:

- This Dixie 14' is an open fishing boat. The pictures show a home brewed foredeck (3/4 plywood, 2x6's(!!), seat pedestal, etc). All this was covered with soggy indoor/outdoor carpet. My plan was to tear it all out (now done) and return boat to original layout. Problem is that underlying boat structure (stringers; thwart uprights, keelson, stem, lower transom) have gone to mush.:blue: My challenge is to repair with a semi sane $/time investment

- I already refurbished the (87 lb, 22 cubic inch '76 Evinrude 25 electric longshaft outboard). Seems to run fine now. Ditto the MG bow mount trolling motor. Trailer seems fine, though I'll probably paint/rewire

- I've searched 100 mile radiusl ads for a replacement lightweight 14' fiberglass boat without much luck. They're all tin...No hits on the brands suggested. Couple heavyweights (eg boston whaler), but i'd like a light and simple little 25hp lake/pond boat

- Structural survey:

Talk about hindsight! :facepalm:
Examing the hull, looks like maybe 2 or 4 longitudinal stringers in boat floor; I'd guess something like 1" x 4" x ~13', with maybe T shaped keel (1x4 teeing a 1x2?) joining transom (3/4? with 1 1/2" doubler at top outboard mount) and stem (2 x 2?) Lower 1/3 of transom is wet. No longitudinal structure in hull sides (~just 3/16 thick fiberglass), other than extruded aluminum popriveted gunwhale/toprail. Thwarts (3); fore and aft are foam filled plywood boxes (rotted uprights); center thwart is a fiberglass livewell. All are tabbed to boat bottom, and will have to come out to get at stringer pockets.

Questions:

1. Is using $$$$ epoxy resin a sound plan? The boat was originally built with poly, no reason to spend the extra money on epoxy...

(Seems poly resin may be cheaper and might go more quickly?? Is epoxy worth the expense and added time?).

2. Will all the following restoration material be required for JUST a 14' open boat?

(I'm guesstimating (after doing homework on this form) 3 - 5 gallons of resin, plus 12 yards (38") 10 oz cloth, 25 yds x 4" cloth tape, 6 yards roving mat, 3 sheets AC ext plywood (2 x 3/4 and 1 x 3/8 ??), gallon cabosil, qt 1/2" fibers, gallon topside paint, gallon hull paint, mixing containers, cleanup mek? solvent, gloves, respirator, etc).
If you can source your materials locally, so that you don't have to pay shipping costs, you buy as you need, otherwise you are fairly close on your estimates...I am not sure if you meant 3 each, 5 Gallon buckets of resin...OR...3 to 5 Gallons of resin, but realistically it will probably fall somewhere in between...1708 drinks it like there is no tomorrow, and taking into account some waste, plus all the wood that will need a pre-soaking of resin, plus a layer of 1.5 ounce CSM applied for waterproofing before actual installation { although some opt out of doing that and just bed the bare wood stringers, etc...then layer cloth and resin...}, then there is the Peanut Butter { a thickened resin mix for making fillets and a filler/fairing compound}...the resin can go pretty fast...BTW, you do NOT want to use an auto parts resin as it contains a wax additive which helps it cure, but if you need to laminate more layers on top, after it has cured, you will need to re-sand the surface to remove the wax layer...you need to source a laminating or lay-up resin...

3. Assume BASIC process is to cut/laminate plywood to duplicate original wood structural members?

(Cut out and remove thwarts. Cut top off hull floor stringer and keel pockets. Cut inside glass and remove transom wood. Clean out all mush. Layout and cut replacements in A/C ext plywood. Laminate plywwod with epoxy/cabosil adhesive. Trial fit. Paint plywood with epoxy to waterproof. Bed plywood in "peanut butter" epoxy mix ~ 1/4" off fiberglass boat skin. Tab in place and glass over, all in one work session
To save on materials, any wood laminations can be done with a water resistant glue such as Titebond III or Gorilla Glue...and YES, that is the basic process, copy what is there unless of course it is rotted beyond being able to be used as a template, in which case you'll have to make your best guess copy by taking lots of measurements and making your own template out of rigid foam or cardboard...

4. Whats the best way to keep the original boat shape while replacing structure?

(Its already a noodle, and seems to be "hogged", as the keel is ~2" concave amidships with the boat flipped over. Should I just set it on a level floor with level blocking? Assume keel should be pretty much level with shop floor??)
You will need to make some sort of cradle to support the hull and help it keep its basic shape...some make very nice cradles with wheels to be able to move it about, others throw some lumber on the hull in strategic locations with some screws/scabs to hold it in place, while others use straps and/or a combination of all the above...the more ingenious you are the cheaper it can be built...

5. I ordered the book "Runabout Restoration" (Jim Anderson) before finding this forum. Is this book worthwhile? I think its kinda' old (1992)
Sorry, while I have heard of the book, I have never owned or read it...

I'll post some more pictures later

Best regards and ask all the questions you have, the knowledge base on this forum knows no limits...

 

[mwe-maxxowner]

Re: Mushy Stringer Blues...When is it Not Worth Fixing???

I'm restoring an 18' 8" runabout with a somewhat shallow v. I'm imagining it would take similar amounts of supplies. I spent around 900$ for glassing supplies. When you account for glassing supplies, wood, acetone, gloves, chip brushes, rollers, sandpaper, grinding discs, mixing buckets, I'm probably in for 1300-1500$ in materials to rebuild my transom, stringers, foam, and deck. Don't underestimate things like gloves, brushes, etc. When the resin on the roller tacks up the gloves will stick to it and tear. Then you need another pair. And sometimes I'd go through multiple rollers in a glassing session if I forgot to wash the resin out with acetone before it hardened.

 

[hisport]

Re: Mushy Stringer Blues...When is it Not Worth Fixing???

Nice!!

I like the Lakeland hull, though that Tuffy looks a good package

Used to live in Cedarburg; love WI

 

[hisport]

Re: Mushy Stringer Blues...When is it Not Worth Fixing???

Thanks everyone!

- I'll use poly resin; and make sure its for laminating. I will buy some wax to add for final topcoat.

- Will probably need to mail order, as I can't find any marine/laminating resin etc supplier in Winston/Mt Airy NC area. Looks like y'all like "US Composites"

- I'll find and watch the "friscoboat" videos and forum FAQ's

- I'll buy 5 gallons resin initially, and hope that will suffice (and plenty of gloves and rollers etc)

Appreciate all the generous help.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: Mushy Stringer Blues...When is it Not Worth Fixing???

You can try Composites One, they have a facility in Rock Hill, SC 2hrs +/- away might be cheaper to pick it up in person rather then via ups.

It is more hassle to deal w/ them, you may need to 'apply' to be a retail customer. Hassle vs US Comp....

Frisco & forum faq are under Don's helpful how too's, a sticky at the top of the resto forum homepage

 

[hisport]

Re: Mushy Stringer Blues...When is it Not Worth Fixing???

Thanks everyone!

- I'll use poly resin; and make sure its for laminating. I will buy some wax to add for final topcoat.

- Will probably need to mail order, as I can't find any marine/laminating resin etc supplier in Winston/Mt Airy NC area. Looks like y'all like "US Composites"

- I'll find and watch the "friscoboat" videos and forum FAQ's

- I'll buy 5 gallons resin initially, and hope that will suffice (and plenty of gloves and rollers etc)

Appreciate all the generous help.