Murtha again

rodbolt

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 1, 2003
Messages
20,066
anybody watch the clips of murtha and his ilk?<br /> what a bunch.<br /> the fact is we are in Iraq.<br /> fact is we demolished the Iraqi infastructure and are obligated to restore it to at least prewar levels.<br /> any disagreements yet?<br /><br />another fact, both Rice and Rumsfeld have shown incredible poor judgement for 3 years and show no signs of getting better and should resign to save whats left of the current CIC.<br /> any disagreements yet?<br /><br /> another fact, we had insuffiecent troops and equipment in march of 03.<br /> any disagreements yet?<br /><br /> a question, if you agreed with the above fact look again at the rice/Rumsfeld fact<br /><br />fact, at the current troop strength we cannot "win" we can put out fires and move at will. but we cannot control the theater .<br /> any disagreements yet?<br /><br /> Murtha is just wrong calling for an immediate pull out, only if Bush does not support our troops place an additional 100-150K troops in country.<br /> we either fight to win or go home.<br /><br /> any disagreements?<br /><br /> the iraqis are at least 3 years from being able to police themselves and that is using the villige idiots (rumsfeld) and the lap dog(Rice) own estimates.<br /> a far cry from the 6 week oil financed war rumsfeld promised almost 3 years ago.<br /> any one dissagree yet?<br /> <br /> we are in the wrong country fighting the wrong war but it does not obviate the fact we are there and have been almost 3 years.<br /> any disagreement yet?<br /><br /> the only way I would support a total withdraw is if Bush and his band of like villiage idiots continue the almost criminal non support of the war they started.<br /><br />crawford Tx is a village, I hear they want their idiot back.
 

kenimpzoom

Rear Admiral
Joined
Jul 13, 2002
Messages
4,807
Re: Murtha again

Your aruguments are ruined by your personal attacks on the people. I suggest you edit them out for clairity.<br /><br />You have to consider that hindsight is 20/20. We didnt think the insurgency would be this long. Our mistake.<br /><br />Also, beacause of the current anti war arena, they wont let the president bring in more troops. You can blame the media for that one.<br /><br />I would suggest to you than when you hear of all the negative, in your mind think of the many more positive things that are happening in Iraq. You have to imagine it cause the media will never tell that story.<br /><br />You are also implying that Rumsfeld and Rice are incompetent, and I see no signs of that.<br /><br />In fact, by bringing the terrorists to Iraq, they are finally fighting with the military. Not attacking innocent civilans in the USA.<br /><br />This begs the questions, what exactly did you expect from the war. What would have to happen to make you happy. Would all troop deaths have to cease? That isnt going to happen. Its a war, people will die.<br /><br />It would be nice to add another 100,000 troops but it just isnt going to happen. Sadly the democrats want to win at any cost, and they will sacrifice soldiers lives just to win.<br /><br />Ken
 

12Footer

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
Messages
8,217
Re: Murtha again

There are as many ways to parse history as there are participants.<br />There are as many directions to predict history, as there are camidates for 2008.<br /><br />Rodbolt, you lost me at Condi/Rummy. No shock there, is it? My point is ,as Ken stated, hindsight is kwunny-kwunny....And this thing is not over.<br />Had we known kennedy,sheehan, and dipsy chinks would go to werk so readily for the enemy, and had we 100%support in the senate, and amoungst the US people, the "insurgents" would never have insurged imho. They would still be alive, and qauking in their sandals at the shear might of the American fighting machine, and the resolve of it's citizenry...But alas, "Bush sux".<br />Can you immagine what this theatre in the war on terror would look like today without murtha and his mafia -- With the national resolve 100% behind the effort?<br /><br />I don't like this ("see i told you so", only if's)...It shouldn't be an issue today.<br />But even given our 'blunders' in theatre, our military has held-up well, marking their successes, and doing their best to ignore enemy progaganda. After all, they are trained to do just that. But it still is unpleasant for me to discuss it all.
 

JB

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
Messages
45,907
Re: Murtha again

Sure, Rodbolt.<br /><br />That stuff comes from the same sources that said,<br /><br />"We can never turn over the country to an Iraqi government."<br /><br />"Elections will never happen."<br /><br />"They will never come up with a Constitution."<br /><br />"No chance to get the Constitution adopted."<br /><br />Etc.<br /><br />It is happening. It will continue to happen, and at the end of the day Iraq will be a self governing nation taking care of her own security.<br /><br />No thanks to the pessimists and underminers who persist in giving comfort and encouragement to the enemy.
 

RubberFrog

Rear Admiral
Joined
Apr 9, 2005
Messages
4,268
Re: Murtha again

Originally posted by JB:<br />That stuff comes from the same sources that said,<br /><br />"We can never turn over the country to an Iraqi government."<br /><br />"Elections will never happen."<br /><br />"They will never come up with a Constitution."<br /><br />"No chance to get the Constitution adopted."<br /><br />Etc.
JB, you know the left is never going to "remember" those predictions.
 

PW2

Commander
Joined
Apr 21, 2004
Messages
2,719
Re: Murtha again

I pretty much agree with you, Rod. And Again, Murtha is not calling for an "immediate" withdrawl. What I think he really wants is a serious debate on what our course is, and what our objectives are, instead of this "Stay the course" nonsense<br /><br />And I'm surprised to learn the media is not "allowing" this president to do his job. When did that happen?<br /><br />And JB, I really am glad you think all is going well in Iraq. I'd be a little cautious if someone comes by offering a special deal on waterfront property in Louisiana, however.
 

kenimpzoom

Rear Admiral
Joined
Jul 13, 2002
Messages
4,807
Re: Murtha again

Please explain why "stay the course" is nonsense.<br /><br />Please explain how you can make any plans beyond three months.<br /><br />I guarantee the president has goals and agendas, but it is really tough to put a timetable on these things.<br /><br />Ken
 

ufm82

Master Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 29, 2003
Messages
827
Re: Murtha again

When the politicians want to head over and take over the duties at hand, they can ask for "exit strategies". Until then, it is the President's responsibility to run the war. He is the CIC- the Congress has no rank in the military. Let the military do what they are trained to do and let the politicians do what they are trained to do. <br /><br /> Why aren't the Democrats sending people over to train the Iraqi people in the ways of government? Why can't they send a contingent of people who can train the Iraqis how to administer public funds? Or train them to rebuid their infrastructure? How about unions? How about any of the nay-sayers. Are they helping or hindering? If they really wanted us out of Iraq, how about doing something to advance that desire?<br /><br /> Until then, shut up. If you don't have a cure you're part of the problem.<br /><br />UFM82
 

QC

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Messages
22,783
Re: Murtha again

Originally posted by KenImpZoom:<br /> Your aruguments are ruined by your personal attacks on the people. I suggest you edit them out for clairity.
I agree . . .<br /><br />Personally, I believe armchair quarterbacking is just that. Nothing. Before the war I may have supported a Murtha type approach, but not after. Really stupid now though.<br /><br />Let's continue to help these people build a country . . . I say build, not rebuild as that place is just residue from a brutal, totalitarian regime. As I have posted about ten times recently, "there ain't no stinkin' rewind button". Let's move forward with what we know, what we have, what we can add, and what we can get support for in this political environment.<br /><br />I will also add to JB's tone. We should ALL be proud of what we have done so far. Unless you think a sniff of democracy that includes a free election and a new constitution are meaningless, then there are some amazing things that have been accomplished.<br /><br />Am I happy that we have unleashed a whole bunch of rats from the sewers? No. But I am glad they are making themselves available as targets. I want them dead . . . just like the rats in my attic. Ratzamahfolazartzacarp, or sumpin' like that JB quote thing stuff . . .
 

JB

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
Messages
45,907
Re: Murtha again

I never said things are going well in Iraq, PW2.<br /><br />It is difficult and costly. It will take time. More people will die. We are moving toward the objective, and we will reach it. Nobody, including GWB, said it would be quick, easy or cheap. <br /><br />The most difficult tasks are the ones most worth doing.<br /><br />Doomsayers make them even more difficult than they would be with a nation united behind our leader.<br /><br />Just as WWII was more difficult, but finished the unfinished task of WWI, this one is more difficult, but will finish the unfinished task of the Gulf War.<br /><br />We had to learn how to whip the Nazi and the Japanese Empire. While we were learning they kicked our butts. We are learning how to whip the terrorist "insurgents" and shall persevere and prevail.
 

PW2

Commander
Joined
Apr 21, 2004
Messages
2,719
Re: Murtha again

I really do hope you are correct, JB. Honest.<br /><br />I just don't see how we can get there doing what we are doing. Time will tell, I suppose.<br /><br />I've been wrong before. Not often, mind you, but it's possible I'm wrong this time. We'll see.
 

rogerwa

Commander
Joined
Nov 29, 2000
Messages
2,339
Re: Murtha again

We have yet to lose a battle, not even close. Considering we have tied our arms and legs to pander to 'sensitivities'.<br /><br />Suicide bombings and abductions will not a win a war. These tactics only work to wear down an enemies will. What we are seeing is the success of these tactics to erode our will. We will lose this at home, not abroad. Murtha's will has been broken, not our military services. He will put our sons and daughters in harms way because of it.<br /><br />When we shuttled in supplies to Berlin for eleven months, we did not waver in our support for the people of Berlin and the ideals behind it.<br /><br />This country has become soft and it appears we do not have the stomach to finish the job. If we had the stomach, this country would be pissed at the terrorists instead of trying to 'understand' them..
 

kenimpzoom

Rear Admiral
Joined
Jul 13, 2002
Messages
4,807
Re: Murtha again

I just wonder, if President Bush suddenly came up with a time line, would everyone get off his back.<br /><br />Answer: NO<br /><br />They will just try to find something else.<br /><br />This is what really pisses me off. The democrats dont care at all about a timeline and they know damn well you cant set one. They are just using it to put donw the Republicans.<br /><br />I guess they have no shame.<br /><br />Ken
 

jimonica

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 4, 2005
Messages
313
Re: Murtha again

rogerwa,<br /><br />You use the terms "understand" and "sensitivities"<br />in quotes. Am I correct to assume you are quoting some liberals and if so could you please tell us who? If not quoting liberals who are you quoting?<br /><br />I know conservatives have a great stake in painting liberals as bunch of peacnik wussys. But if you go to<br /><br />www.chickenhawk.com<br /><br />I think you might be just a little surprised at the number of liberals that have served and really at the lack of Republicans that have.<br /><br />For the record I've never been in the service. I just thought I would point this out because it seems some on these pages thinks it carries a lot of weight.<br /><br />I should have prefaced that last comment prior to Murtha's statements. Now it seems ones service doesn't matter. At least to some on these pages.
 

RubberFrog

Rear Admiral
Joined
Apr 9, 2005
Messages
4,268
Re: Murtha again

Originally posted by jimonica:<br />I think you might be just a little surprised at the number of liberals that have served
yeah, so? They started out with some decent values and then got stupid.<br /><br />As far as politicians go, I could care less about there military service. How many dumb grunts have you seen? You don't suddenly become a highly intelligent and moral person just because you were in the military. Case in point, didn't Kerry admit he killed babies? Great pres he would be.<br /><br />Sure, most folks in the military are good people. So are most teachers. Are teachers qualified to be great political leaders too? How about firemen? The guy that cleaned my chimney seemed pretty decent. You want to vote for him?<br /><br />By the way, this is a pretty cheap way to play dirty and then clear yourself-<br /><br />
Originally posted by jimonica:<br />For the record I've never been in the service. I just thought I would point this out because it seems some on these pages thinks it carries a lot of weight.
Oh, one more "good guy" for ya. You gonna vote for Tookie Williams for president?
 

QC

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Messages
22,783
Re: Murtha again

RF,<br /><br />Man, you do pay attention. This Tookie stuff cracks me up. "Hmmmm, if I act just right while on death row and say really nice things, yeah that'll work" . . . BTW, I understand he has never expressed any remorse for the killings; not that it matters in my book.<br /><br />Sorry for the hijack.
 

RubberFrog

Rear Admiral
Joined
Apr 9, 2005
Messages
4,268
Re: Murtha again

I have already written the end of his book- "and the needle pierced his flesh. The End."<br /><br />Sure is a lot of Hollywood liberals trying to save him.
 

rogerwa

Commander
Joined
Nov 29, 2000
Messages
2,339
Re: Murtha again

Never mentioned anything about conservatives or liberals. By going there it would be too much of a slippery slope and I don't think it would be accurate. I think the point I was trying to make still stands. If the shoe fits, then it doesn't matter what party your affiliated with.<br /><br />Also, my point was more directed at the national opinion. It really has nothing to do with serving in the military. We should as a nation fight to the finish with a strong resolve. For the good of the country, not the good of the administration. <br /><br />The quotes were more for emphasis than anything else.<br /><br />I am a conservative and have not served. So add my name to the list for whatever that means..
 

jimonica

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 4, 2005
Messages
313
Re: Murtha again

Rf, <br /><br />I agree, I don't think just because you served it makes you an expert in politics.<br /><br />Military service sure seemed to matter when Clinton ran.<br /><br />Now that we have chickenhawks running the country it doesn't matter. Can't have it both ways.<br /><br />Please explain how me being up front is a "cheap way to play dirty". Could it be because I cut off a criticism before it took place?
 
Top