Modern Engine Thoughts

[cdn1972]

I am finally getting my 2019 boat purchase rebuilt to the point I need to think about a new engine. My original evinrude short shaft 25hp does not work at this point.
I am thinking a new short shaft 25 hp Merc 4 stroke. Anyone have experience with these modern engines?

 

[jimmbo]

As I really don't like 4 Strokes, I would rebuild the 2 Stroke Evinrude. Lighter, Faster Acceleration, and better Mosquito Control, and a lot fewer parts to break

 

[jasper60103]

I am finally getting my 2019 boat purchase rebuilt to the point I need to think about a new engine. My original evinrude short shaft 25hp does not work at this point.
I am thinking a new short shaft 25 hp Merc 4 stroke. Anyone have experience with these modern engines?

I was in the same boat as you in 2018. I loved my’88 Johnson 30 hp until it it started giving me problems. I struggled and tinkered with it for a few seasons and eventually took it to a mechanic. He took my money and I got back the same old problem. At that point I had just about enough. Bought myself a brand new motor and have no regrets. Good luck with your decision.

 

[matt167]

I had a 40hp Johnson super seahorse ( big twin ). I opted to downgrade to a Suzuki DF25A. It is a decision I do not regret. Its quiet. Starts quick. Not that the big twin started hard. But it's just smoother and more enjoyable. Not much speed if any really was lost. It doesn't launch as hard.I don't know much about the merc except it's a tohatsu. But the Suzuki I would buy again

 

[JimS123]

My collection of outboards totals 69. Four are 4-strokes, mounted on daily drivers.

I LOVE the smell of a 2-stroke. I also like to tinker. May of my 2-strokes are run on occasion in my classic boats. Its a hobby.

I bought my first 4-stroke in 2017. Bought a kicker shortly after. Traded in the old boat and bought another in 2019, with another kicker before she was ever launched.

If its a Sunday cruise with the family, or a weekday fishing trip, or OMG a vacation trip, there will be a 4-stroke on the transom.

No tinkering needed. Sure, expensive parts, but the reliability is what separates them from the fold.

If you like to tinker and have a limited budget, go 2-stroke. If you want to go boating and can afford it, buy a 4-stroke.

 

[matt167]

The one downfall of the 4 stroke is going to be weight. When I bought my 25hp Suzuki it was the lightest 25hp sold. But it was within 10lbs of the old 40hp... And I know since I have one, it's about 100lbs heavier than a johnnyrude 20,25,30,35 twin

 

[jimmbo]

Another is much poorer Hole Shot. 4 strokes aren't as good for Waterskiing, unless you have several hundred Horsepower, pull as hard as a 60hp 2stroke did

 

[Grub54891]

The 4 strokes are good, just heavier. The neighbors pontoon has an e-tech, well, they are poor about maintaining things, they left the vent cap loose on the fuel tank and it got loaded with water from the rain. I flushed the system twice, but it still runs like crap. I think a sensor went bad or the pump. It's at the dealer now.... Yeah the e-tech is oil injected but all the electronics on them are a pain.

 

[909]

2 strokes are the best. Sell your old one as is , and buy a newer 2 stroke.

Or better yet, ask for help, and sell it as a running outboard completely serviced.

A friend of mine just picked up a 1999 3 carb 25 Johnson in mint condition with low hours , new CDI , coils ect and for him it's perfect

 

[flyingscott]

The 4 strokes are good, just heavier. The neighbors pontoon has an e-tech, well, they are poor about maintaining things, they left the vent cap loose on the fuel tank and it got loaded with water from the rain. I flushed the system twice, but it still runs like crap. I think a sensor went bad or the pump. It's at the dealer now.... Yeah the e-tech is oil injected but all the electronics on them are a pain.

How are the electronics on an E-tec different than a fuel injected 4 strk?

 

[Grub54891]

Not real sure, more likely sensors and stuff for monitoring the fuel, as it's injected not carburetor. Modern 4 strokes are injected for the most part nowadays also. Thats why I sent him to a dealer. I'm sort of old school, and dont want to invest in the diagnostic equipment.

 

[airshot]

Not real sure, more likely sensors and stuff for monitoring the fuel, as it's injected not carburetor. Modern 4 strokes are injected for the most part nowadays also. Thats why I sent him to a dealer. I'm sort of old school, and dont want to invest in the diagnostic equipment.

In order to pass EPA regs todays modern 2 strokes have lots of expensive electronics to meet air quality standards. Compare the price of a modern 2 stroke and you will see they are more expensive than a 4 stroke due to all those fancy electronics. Yep 4 stroke is heavier, slower in the power band, but great in fuel economy. If I were into big motors of 150 hp and up then a modern 4 stroke would make sense. However on smaller motors I am a believer in 2 stroke for the less weight and better low end punch. The simplicity of a good 2 stroke in a small motor cant be beat. Yes, I am a fan of the older 2 strokes, not the newer high tech space ship technology gizmos. Unfortunately the gov't will be dictating what we use to power our toys, so hang on to what you have for as long as you can, things do wear out, just be prepared to oay handsomely for the newest and latest

 

[BWR1953]

...better Mosquito Control...

 

[RMClark]

I have had a 20HP Merc Four Stroke for 15 months now. It replaced a 33 year old Johnson 30HP. The boat is a 14' Lund that I use for fishing.

The old Johnson was a royal pain to start, and it was pull start, something my old shoulders just weren't going to tolerate much longer. I tried to find an electric start kit that I could bolt on, but they're not easy to find in my area. I also had a hard time keeping the motor going once it started. This was all likely easy stuff to fix, but it was one thing after another. Fishing is my hobby, not outboard motor repair.

Here's what I like about my Merc:

- Fuel efficiency. I can run all day on significantly less than three gallons of gas.

- There's no oil to mix into the fuel.

- It's quiet. I can easily converse with somebody else in the boat as the motor is running.

- Less fumes.

- Fires right up with the press of the start button.

Ok, there are some downsides, but I'll put up with them.

- Complexity. Yes, the engine cowling is full. My ability to diagnose an electronic issue will probably be non-existent.

- Engine oil changes. Easy enough, but can be little messy because of the crowded cowling. This is something one doesn't do at all with a 2 stroke.

Can't talk to weight. My Merc is only 120 pounds, about the same as the old Johnson. Yes, the old Johnson had more power, but I'm not pulling tubers or skiers. I don't care about hole shot, particularly on the preponderance of no-wake lakes around me.

One thing I'll also throw in about the Merc: I like the tiller control setup. I really like having the shifter on the handle next to the throttle, and the adjustable offsets that allow me to tailor the tiller positioning to my boat and my personal preferences.

 

[JimS123]

I have had a 20HP Merc Four Stroke for 15 months now. It replaced a 33 year old Johnson 30HP. The boat is a 14' Lund that I use for fishing.

The old Johnson was a royal pain to start, and it was pull start, something my old shoulders just weren't going to tolerate much longer. I tried to find an electric start kit that I could bolt on, but they're not easy to find in my area. I also had a hard time keeping the motor going once it started. This was all likely easy stuff to fix, but it was one thing after another. Fishing is my hobby, not outboard motor repair.

Here's what I like about my Merc:

- Fuel efficiency. I can run all day on significantly less than three gallons of gas.

- There's no oil to mix into the fuel.

- It's quiet. I can easily converse with somebody else in the boat as the motor is running.

- Less fumes.

- Fires right up with the press of the start button.

Ok, there are some downsides, but I'll put up with them.

- Complexity. Yes, the engine cowling is full. My ability to diagnose an electronic issue will probably be non-existent.

- Engine oil changes. Easy enough, but can be little messy because of the crowded cowling. This is something one doesn't do at all with a 2 stroke.

Can't talk to weight. My Merc is only 120 pounds, about the same as the old Johnson. Yes, the old Johnson had more power, but I'm not pulling tubers or skiers. I don't care about hole shot, particularly on the preponderance of no-wake lakes around me.

One thing I'll also throw in about the Merc: I like the tiller control setup. I really like having the shifter on the handle next to the throttle, and the adjustable offsets that allow me to tailor the tiller positioning to my boat and my personal preferences.

There's the winner...

 

[matt167]

I don't think oil changes is a valid comparison since a 2 stroke burns it's oil. An E tec has oil metering as well as fuel injection making it more complex in a small margin. But people don't even realize that a fuel injected outboard often has a chamber where the high pressure fuel pump is and it uses a float just like a carburetor

 

[JimS123]

An E-Tec 'Rude in today's world is maybe a moot point. It's like buying an OMC I/O.

 

[matt167]

Hit a rock with any outboard and your going to do some damage. My Zuki came with a set of tools and it takes 5w30 synthetic automotive oil. Facts are Etec was 2 strokes last straw. And this whole thing has nothing to do with the original question.

 

[jimmbo]

I miss the sound and sweet smell of all the 2 Strokes in the early hours of the Day, actually I miss them all hours of the Day when I am at the Lake. I do find a serious decrease in Hole Shot with the 4 Strokes for any given Horsepower, when compared to the 2 Strokes of the past. To me, an Outboard just isn't an Outboard if it isn't a 2 Stroke.

 

[jimmbo]

The Rotating Assembly of a 2 Stroke, will always be much simpler than any 4 Stroke. Once the Emissions Thing was applied to Outboards, the complexity of things added to the Engine became complex, for both designs of Engine. Newer engines run very nicely, and require little attention from the Operator, until they don't. Here the operator can do little, as the Computer has taken over most operations of how the engine operates, and it isn't easy to watch Electrons go from place to place, like it was easy to watch a Linkage move when you hit the Throttle.
As for Timing Belts, none of my cars ever had a Timing Belt, mainly cause I would never own a Vehicle with the scrawny Engines that had them. One of my Car has the infamous 3.6 V6 that has Undersized Timing Chains that combined with DFI and Extended Oil Changes, even with Synthetic, resulted in excessive Stretching, throwing the Valve Timing off enough to screw up Emissions. While they were Allegedly replaced by the Dealer, the replacements were just a good as the Originals...