Milky oil

[Scott06]

Ok, last stuff for you guys to review. Heads are off and I'm not seeing anything conclusive, where I can tell my customer what exactly is going on. Starboard shutter was missing, elbow gaskets weren't great, intake gaskets weren't great and I don't see anything obvious on the head or head gaskets. Also, I don't see any cracks anywhere. One valve stem was oily and gunked up. Good idea to get heads checked for leaks and get them shaved? I was thinking I would pull the valves and do seals and lap them so they seal a little better. During leak down I didn't hear any air into water jacket, but some into exhaust and carb. Still, some advice and opinions would be awesome. Anything else to check for water intrusionis

possible you have a crack in exhaust seat or rot through exhaust ports. You may not see that unless valves are removed from heads. I would have them pressure tested and or magnafluxed and valve job at a machine shop. They are off and you are looking for issues but haven’t found it yet…


If you are pressurizing the cooling system absolutely none of it should end up in intake or a exhaust system, unless you didn’t block of water flow to elbows that dump cooling water into exhaust at the down turn elbow.

 

[Lou C]

You made a lot of progress there, report back after you find out from the machine shop if they are good or not.
Did the head gaskets show any signs of burning or separation? Mine definitely did.
After a few run/check for water/drain cycles I figured out what was happening. I would run it on the hose, shut it off, let it cool to take the plugs out and then crank it to check for water. Right then, a half hr later, it would not spit any water out. But if I left water in it overnight, warmed it up and checked again, I'd get a bit of water out of #2 and just a tiny mist out of #1. So what was happening is this: as the engine cooled off, some water would leak in the cyls over time. When I pulled the heads the splits in the HGs were obvious.
Both cyl heads were cracked in the valve seat area of the center cylinder, that was from an overheat. Not obvious with the valves in place but they found it.

 

[Lou C]

possible you have a crack in exhaust seat or rot through exhaust ports. You may not see that unless valves are removed from heads. I would have them pressure tested and or magnafluxed and valve job at a machine shop. They are off and you are looking for issues but haven’t found it yet…


If you are pressurizing the cooling system absolutely none of it should end up in intake or a exhaust system, unless you didn’t block of water flow to elbows that dump cooling water into exhaust at the down turn elbow.

I was thinking the same thing, no pressurized air from the cooling system should wind up in the intake.

 

[Lou C]

Have a suspicious rust trail, but don't think I see a crack. Opinions please?

hard to say, but that could also just be the HG leaking a bit in that spot. That is where they crack though, in the cam valley.
isn't there some kind of dye you can paint on to check for cracks?
check the block deck very carefully after cleaning off the remnants of the HGs.
looking at your pix of the block I don't see evidence of water coming in through the exhaust, and it looks like it was never rebuilt, an original engine (no oversize stamps on the pistons).
here's my old one, looks like my engine was running too rich or burning a bit of oil or both lol!

Liquid is fogging oil to prevent rusting.

the thing that took the longest was cleaning up the block deck and all the bolt holes. You really have to clean them all the way to the bottom or else you may have a head bolt that does not screw in all the way! They get gunked up due to raw water cooling. I used gun cleaning brushes, solvent, compressed air and a thread chaser. Make sure all the head bolts will thread all the way in before installing the head gaskets and heads. My bolts were pretty rusty so I replaced them with ARP head bolts, well worth it. You want clean threads on both the hole and bolt to get accurate torque #s. Very important.
You also have to use thread sealer on the bolts to prevent water leaks, you can use Permatex Aviation or similar.

 

[SeaRayboater95]

You made a lot of progress there, report back after you find out from the machine shop if they are good or not.
Did the head gaskets show any signs of burning or separation? Mine definitely did.
After a few run/check for water/drain cycles I figured out what was happening. I would run it on the hose, shut it off, let it cool to take the plugs out and then crank it to check for water. Right then, a half hr later, it would not spit any water out. But if I left water in it overnight, warmed it up and checked again, I'd get a bit of water out of #2 and just a tiny mist out of #1. So what was happening is this: as the engine cooled off, some water would leak in the cyls over time. When I pulled the heads the splits in the HGs were obvious.
Both cyl heads were cracked in the valve seat area of the center cylinder, that was from an overheat. Not obvious with the valves in place but they found it.

I'm not seeing any water in the cylinders, I believe. Trying to figure out how water got in the oil. Customer wants to "risk it and just just put new gaskets". Doesn't want to pay for test and head flattening, (or what ever that's called). He said he will think about it and let me know.

Ken

 

[Lou C]

water got in somehow, do you still have the old HGs, post up a pic.
Given the labor to R+R and have to do it twice, explain to him it's smart to have the heads at least checked for cracks. They don't have to mill them as long as they are flat and level to no more than .003" variation. A minor clean up of the valves and valve seats, and new valve seals is all you might need if not cracked.
You can check that (flatness) yourself with a straight edge and feeler gauges. The block deck should also be checked the same way. Mine weren't warped but they were cracked and I would have felt like a fool if all I did was slap new gaskets in there.
BTW the reman heads I installed back in 2017 cost $275 each. Well worth it, I fixed that 9 years ago and still runs well and still no water in the oil!

 

[SeaRayboater95]

water got in somehow, do you still have the old HGs, post up a pic.
Given the labor to R+R and have to do it twice, explain to him it's smart to have the heads at least checked for cracks. They don't have to mill them as long as they are flat and level to no more than .003" variation. A minor clean up of the valves and valve seats, and new valve seals is all you might need if not cracked.
You can check that (flatness) yourself with a straight edge and feeler gauges. The block deck should also be checked the same way. Mine weren't warped but they were cracked and I would have felt like a fool if all I did was slap new gaskets in there.
BTW the reman heads I installed back in 2017 cost $275 each. Well worth it, I fixed that 9 years ago and still runs well and still no water in the oil!

 

[Lou C]

They actually look pretty good. Are the fire rings totally intact? If so it makes it even more important to have the heads checked because I don’t see a smoking gun yet.

 

[SeaRayboater95]

They actually look pretty good. Are the fire rings totally intact? If so it makes it even more important to have the heads checked because I don’t see a smoking gun yet.

I'm suspecting the intake gaskets. They were all ripped up when I lifted the intake off. I'm kinda hoping he tells me to just put it together, as that will take the heat off me. I'm slowly getting into a bad spot here. lol

 

[Lou C]

Those will come apart when you disassemble but my experience is they rarely leak. But I guess you gotta do what he wants but with the disclaimer that’s only one of several possible leak points

 

[SeaRayboater95]

Those will come apart when you disassemble but my experience is they rarely leak. But I guess you gotta do what he wants but with the disclaimer that’s only one of several possible leak points

If he wants to "take the risk", against my advise, which I have in text, its on him.

 

[Lou C]

People who do that haven’t had the experience of doing the same dang job twice with their own hands lol!

 

[Scott06]

I'm not seeing any water in the cylinders, I believe. Trying to figure out how water got in the oil. Customer wants to "risk it and just just put new gaskets". Doesn't want to pay for test and head flattening, (or what ever that's called). He said he will think about it and let me know.

Ken

any way it got down the carb during storage? would eventually leak by the rings. Also possible if it wasnt getting hot due to defective thermostat and or idling at the dock can get condensation in it

 

[SeaRayboater95]

any way it got down the carb during storage? would eventually leak by the rings. Also possible if it wasnt getting hot due to defective thermostat and or idling at the dock can get condensation in it

He has been runing the boat all summer. Finally died on him and wouldn't restart .due to severe neglect. Starting to think it was the missing shutter or faulty elbow gasket. Water leaking out of the elbow over night adding to oil. Not fast enough to cause hydro lock. Well he declined the head test and wants me to reasemble. Maybe he get lucky!!