metal chips in oil (brand new Crusader)

[codfather II]

I received my two new engines from Crusader on Friday. Today, the mechanic pulled one from the crate. I asked the mechanic to pull the pan to inspect the oil pickup line, as I had problems in the past. Upon dropping the pan the mechanic noticed metal chips in the oil. Is this normal in any way??? I didn't have a chance to get to the marina to see it myself, so I can't tell you how large the chips are. The mechanic never started the engine. I imagine Crusader starts them before shipping. We haven't spoken to Crusader yet and would like some info from readers to see if this is normal. I'm guessing not! thanks

 

[rbezdon]

Re: metal chips in oil (brand new Crusader)

I have never bought a complete engine, always a short or long block so no pan to collect the chips. There is no way I can see this as normal though. Chips just can't be a good thing. I am not sure what Crusader is going to say as they are going to wonder why you pulled the pan on your brand new warranteed engine!! I assume you were going to swap the oil pump/pick up with a welded one as we discussed a short while ago.

 

[codfather II]

Re: metal chips in oil (brand new Crusader)

Although swapping is a good idea, I wouldn't feel right doing it. I wouldn't want to jeopardize the warranty in any way. I had the mechanic drop the pan because of the two prior failures. The marina only gets paid for 8 hours of warranty work ( pull boat, pull engine, install engine etc.) and told me I would have to start paying the balance. They have more than 8 hours of work involved. I asked the mechanic to look at it BEFORE the engine was installed so I wouldn't have to worry about paying for this problem again.

 

[jmccall001]

Re: metal chips in oil (brand new Crusader)

saw article on recalls/warranty probs on crfusader engines in the boat us magazine - believe for june. problems with oil pumps I believe./

 

[f_inscreenname]

Re: metal chips in oil (brand new Crusader)

Call them and tell them you changed the oil and found chips in the drained oil.

 

[codfather II]

Re: metal chips in oil (brand new Crusader)

Update: I talked to Crusader today and they told me that chips in the oil of a new engine is normal. I'm no mechanic, but I think they're wrong. One of the chips looked like a curly shaving from drilling. I went to a chevy dealer and talked to two auto mechanics who completely disagree with Crusader. Lastly, when the mechanic dropped the pan, he looked at the oil pump assembly. G.M. changed the oil pickup line. They use some kind of bracket assembly instead of the old pressed on system. I think my problems with the pickup falling off is finally over. sorry for the long thread. P.S. did you know that the 5.7 L. G.M. engine is made in freakin Mexico?? So much for trying to buy American!

 

[KaGee]

Re: metal chips in oil (brand new Crusader)

"Update: I talked to Crusader today and they told me that chips in the oil of a new engine is normal. " I would say that too. that's why they want you to change the oil and filter after several hours of running. I wouldn't refer to them as chips, but particles maybe.

 

[codfather II]

Re: metal chips in oil (brand new Crusader)

Thanks Keith, The break-in time for the oil change is 20 hours. Does that sound about right?

 

[steve n carol]

Re: metal chips in oil (brand new Crusader)

metal chips... yes, it is a normal occurance...if the block hadn't, (is that a word?), been blown, purged, washed-out, or any other word you want to call it, after the machineing of the basic block after casting. Also, the plugs we call freeze plugs are originaly there to rinse the sand out of the water jacket after casting. With today's HIGH TECH methods, these new engines, (blocks and heads) should be VERY clean after machining but before assembly of the other parts. Now after break-in, you'll find some debris in the oil. This is typically fine particals, (which is what Keith is talking about, Above), these particles are normal. The new automobiles today don't recommend an 'early' first oil change. <br /> Carolyn's Toyota had it's first oil change at 2300 miles, The manual says 5000 miles. When she took it to the dealer, for the oil change, He told her to 'come back' @ 5000 miles. Of course she only acts foolish, and DEMANDED it be changed NOW, and they did. BTW, Her Toyota is alo made in Baja,<br />(rice and beans), not all bad!...<br />Chips, drill shavings, chunks should not be there.<br /> Now, on the other hand, you may argue, 'since its only a boat', only used a few times a year. The problems incurred by bits and pieces in the crankcase should be expected...sl

 

[steve n carol]

Re: metal chips in oil (brand new Crusader)

cod father, just another thought...visit a production facility in your area, (or take a trip to Mexico), and see for yourself, the process that is involved in the production of similar engines...sl

 

[codfather II]

Re: metal chips in oil (brand new Crusader)

I've understood the above threads. My question now would be this: There is more than just fine particles. There are things that look like chips, drill shavings, and metallic looking oil. I will be dropping the pan again to remove the debris at the bottom. If I do this procedure, will this solve the problem, or are these larger pieces an indication of a bigger problem. Thank you

 

[steve n carol]

Re: metal chips in oil (brand new Crusader)

codfather, you asked, <br /><br />"If I do this procedure, will this solve the problem, or are these larger pieces an indication of a bigger problem".<br /><br />Just what problem? The chips, etc? If you remove the debris, then the debris will be removed. <br /><br />The other question, could be, " will there be more debris later on?" You will have to pull the pan at that time and look. not trying to be a smart but, but these are unknowns.<br /><br />A couple of things I would do.<br />1) If crusader says its okay/normal, document the findings, as if you have to prepare for a court case. <br />2) drop the pan on the other engine as well and see what you find. <br />3) stick a big magnet onto the exterior of the pan. This will keep some of the particles from circulating throughout the engine. And give you the hard evidence if you ever have to go to court. I would also keep and seal all of the old oil filters that you change, (evidence). <br />4) Call Ted Kennedy, He knows how to lie, and get him on your side!<br /><br />Have these engines been run, at all? even a lttle?<br />Let us know what is in the other engine. <br />We feel for you, really!...sl

 

[codfather II]

Re: metal chips in oil (brand new Crusader)

thanks Steve, What I'm really curious about is the larger pieces. Are they an indication that something is turning improperly or something is majorly wrong. Your going to need some patience with me. I'm VERY far from being a mechanic. If after the 20 hour break in oil change, I still see large pieces in the oil, should i be concerned? The other engine had no particles whatsoever. Crusader told me the engine wouldn't have because it's a right hand rotation engine. Crusader has to pull the pan to change things to make it a right hand rotation, thus changing the oil, etc. To answer the question about, have the engines been run? They have only been run at the factory. Thank you I'm sorry this may be hard to understand, as I'm an idiot when it comes to engines!!!

 

[LubeDude]

Re: metal chips in oil (brand new Crusader)

The only difference in a right hand rotating engine is the camshaft and oil pump. The pan would have to be removed for this. I would be very surprised if the engine was ever run at all. It requires way too much labor to do so. Sorry, were these engines complete, like in carb and all, or just a long block.<br /><br />Make sure the engine is primed before you start it.<br /><br />I always change the oil and filter after the first hour of operation, use a clean dark bottomed pan when you change it and take it outside in the sun and look at it, you will be amazed at what you will see floating around in there. Make sure that you break in the cam properly. 2,000 RPM for the first 20 minutes. If the shop tells you that you are nuts if you tell them this, you need a new shop.

 

[codfather II]

Re: metal chips in oil (brand new Crusader)

Lube Dude, these engines are complete. Carb and all! Crusader told me they run the engines for 20 minutes at the factory. From what I've posted above, can you say this is a normal occurance, chips, drill shavings, particles? ? I'm looking for as many opinions as I can get. ...... The 2000 rpm thing? are you saying, stay at 2000 for twenty minutes straight? .. meaning, don't go above or below that level for the full 20 minutes??

 

[flashback]

Re: metal chips in oil (brand new Crusader)

my feeling is that the damage is already done...if those chips and filings are in the oil, then they have had to come from somewhere, if just one average sized chip gets into a crank journal, it's toast...... good luck my friend...

 

[steve n carol]

Re: metal chips in oil (brand new Crusader)

Codfather, being that the engines were made/assembled in Mexico, is Crusader in connecticut?...sl

 

[codfather II]

Re: metal chips in oil (brand new Crusader)

Crusader is located in Little Mountain South Carolina.... By the way, respectfully saying, I'm not knocking Mexico or Mexicans, I just thought I was buying an American made product. I'm kinda big on that!

 

[bluewater19]

Re: metal chips in oil (brand new Crusader)

YOu don't need the 20 min at 2k if your motor is rollercam. Flat tappets needed that to "break in the cam" follow the engine manufactures break in procedure.

 

[codfather II]

Re: metal chips in oil (brand new Crusader)

thanks for all who replied, I really appreciate it. The engine is going in tomorrow and I'm going to cross my fingers. The boat has been out of the water since June 24th. I've been fighting with Crusader since then and I'm getting a little restless, and real tired of doing sutff around the house. Our season ends early here in the Northeast and any time on the water will be appreciated!!!!!