Mandella's son "Kicks The Bucket"

[DJ]

Re: Mandella's son "Kicks The Bucket"

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for helping. <br /><br />But, with that help we also need to be realistic as to what is truth and what is fallacy.<br /><br />Throwing money at this issue is not going to help, in itself. They need real education, not some trumped up "pie in the sky" liberal agenda that is dubious in nature.<br /><br />Unfortuneately, I'm not sure we have it in us to tell the truth(s) at this point. This disease (AIDS) is a political animal with a life all its own.

 

[oddjob]

Re: Mandella's son "Kicks The Bucket"

Nelson Mandela's comments in Newsweek. Mandela said, "America is a threat to world peace," and accused the US of racism for things such as opposing the dictator Saddam for trying to get The Bomb while not caring that Democratic Israel has them. He blamed us for the Ayatollah Khomeini and the Taliban, among other things.

 

[kenimpzoom]

Re: Mandella's son "Kicks The Bucket"

Until these areas in Africa make a stepwise change in the culture, they will remain the third world country that they are.<br /><br />Any person that does not have the intellegence to realize that you have a 50/50 chance of getting an incurable disease by having sex, wont get a lot of pity from me. Same as any other idiot that deserves a darwin award.<br /><br />On a brighter note, there is one country in Afirca that is improving itself. I can't remember which one. I saw about it on PBS. A stepwise change in culture has occured there. If other nations follow, they will see prosperity too.<br /><br />But I am afraid that too much corruption by governments will keep the average guy down.<br /><br /><br />Ken

 

[oddjob]

Re: Mandella's son "Kicks The Bucket"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/special_report/1997/the_winnie_mandela_trial/33659.stm

 

[spratt]

Re: Mandella's son "Kicks The Bucket"

Originally posted by theriver:<br /> We should care. Everyone should care.<br />Perhaps the purpose of this post was to bring attention to the fact that a high profile South African's son died of this disease. Hopefully some of the stigma can disappear so Africans can better deal with the epidemic. In South Africa 20% of the population has HIV aids, thats 5 Million people, or 600 deaths a day. Most of which still occur in denial because of stigmas.<br /><br />And yes, I'm all for the western societies doing more for poorer nations to provide anti-retroviral drugs.

I love how people want the good ol' US of A to do all these miracles, but yet proclaim their hatred fro teh man who is the head of all the efforts...isn't the above post by someone who loudly proclaims his anti-Bush rhetoric? Why not write to Mr. Bush and ask him what he is doing to help African folks who are overwhelmed by this ravaging disease?

 

[spratt]

Re: Mandella's son "Kicks The Bucket"

Originally posted by aspeck:<br /> Teaching them to wear a condom is not the answer. Around here, on almost every taxi and bus you see several stickers of a van inside a condom with the words, "If it is not on, it is not in. Drive defensively." These are plastered everywhere, but they are not changing the culture. Most cannot afford them anyway.

Perhaps some of these sorry groups that go around and give out free needles and condoms to the freaks on the street here in the USA should take on a project to provide free condoms to these folks in Africa who cannot afford them. What a visibility that group could get, and don't forget the publicity the company that makes these rubbers could have!!! "Free condoms for free sex!!! Make love, not war!!! Use OUR condoms, they are free!!!!!"<br /><br />I agree that AIDS is a misunderstood and very deadly, and every job I have worked has provided AIDS and Bloodborn Pathogens training...but face it, it is a disease that is MAINLY attributed to the homos, the free-sex society types, and druggies...I understand that a tremendously large number of the women in South Africa are carriers of the disease and pass it along to their lovers and their babies...

 

[spratt]

Re: Mandella's son "Kicks The Bucket"

And, I am sorry, but there are folks here in my county who die daily of heart disease, cancer, and many other diseases, so for someone in South Africa to dies of AIDS whom I don't know nor have ever met, doesn't affect me very much at all. To be quite honest, it would only get an eyebrow raise if the resident of Russia were to die of AIDS....

 

[theriver]

Re: Mandella's son "Kicks The Bucket"

Flatbottoms, it says "western societies" not the USA.

 

[mrbscott19]

Re: Mandella's son "Kicks The Bucket"

Wow....talk about compassionate. If we(people of the world) sit around and say "who cares?" everytime someone dies from AIDS in Africa, then your kids, and their kids, and their kids, are going to be fighting this disease right in their front yard.<br /><br />You can't stop people from having sex. Especially undereducated people who don't necessarily know the possible consequences. It's a natural behavior. Abstinence is not natural. Never has been, never will be. Have you ever had the urge to abstain? If God didn't want us having sex all the time then he would have given us a mating season. You take AIDS out of the picture, and the sex isn't such a problem anymore, is it? AIDS is the problem, not people having sex. Abstinence is the answer to prevention, but it just isn't practical, and it'll never make the disease go away.

 

[theriver]

Re: Mandella's son "Kicks The Bucket"

Well stated, and thank you.

 

[johnson-liner]

Re: Mandella's son "Kicks The Bucket"

Ditto to Scott's 2nd paragraph...very well stated. <br /><br />Maybe we need another first hand story from Aspeck about the conditions over there..maybe RudeAfrican could assist? I think some of the oh so compasionate people here might need the reality check. From reading about Aspecks hospital trip in the other thread, it sounds like it might be pretty easy to contract just walking around a friggin hospital (blood, etc all over the place), much less anywhere else.

 

[aspeck]

Re: Mandella's son "Kicks The Bucket"

johnson-liner, I know I probably take more precautions than most of the healthcare professionals here, but when you are in the hospital and there are body fluids all over the floor, it makes it difficult to avoid.<br /><br />When at the scene of an accident, blood everywhere, and no one things of gloves or protection. Yes, I carry latex gloves with me EVERYWHERE I go, you just cannot be too cautious. What are you going to do? Oh, this person is bleeding to death, but I don't have gloves, so I better not touch? That just doesn't work for me.<br /><br />Most hospitals don't have clean needles! I watched the hospital take a blood sample, and the needle was fresh, but the vial was used. One clinic said, "Oh yes, we have clean needles, then proceeded to open the pack, expose the needle to show me, and then put it back in the pile to be used.<br /><br />I do not condone the behavior that is instrumental in the spread of AIDS, but in an under-developed country, it gets spread more ways then the "usual" ones. And for me, although I do not practice unsafe sex, I am constantly careful so I do not contract HIV.<br /><br />So, for me, if more was done to prevent AIDS, I would be safer. That said, I still feel the best way to control is abstinence till you are ready to be faithful. 1 partner for life. mrbscott, education is important, but not education to continue the at-risk behaviors, but education to have sex safely - with one partner for life. Abstinence teaching is not "No sex ever." It is sex with one partner.

 

[johnson-liner]

Re: Mandella's son "Kicks The Bucket"

Aspeck, that's exactly what I was trying to convey...like you say "it gets spread more ways then the "usual" ones". I always tend to think that typing more helps get my point accross with less confusion....I think I end up making my post more confusing...sorry about that! <br /><br />With such horrid conditions, I wonder if there's any statistic out there that shows what percentenge of AIDS victims contracted it which way? Probably too hard to figure out....I'm sure a much lower percentage of cases in Africa get it through sex than say here in the US though. Meaning a higher percentage of the total cases over there (as opposed to US) get it through other means like you describe. <br /><br />There I go again....

 

[JB]

Re: Mandella's son "Kicks The Bucket"

A word about Mandela.<br /><br />Mohandas Ghandi and ML King, Jr. both often made public statements that offended, and even outraged me and millions of others. <br /><br />Neither was a God, but both accomplished with their leadership freedom from injustice for millions of people in the face of fierce opposition.<br /><br />Mandela did the same. He has offended me almost as much as did Dr. King, but he will be remembered as the man who defeated apartheid.

 

[oddjob]

Re: Mandella's son "Kicks The Bucket"

Thanks for the clarification JB. That's mo better.<br /><br />

 

[ob]

Re: Mandella's son "Kicks The Bucket"

N Mandela should also be remebered a leader who didn't give the US the benefit of the doubt when so many natioins within the UN took a stance against the US' post 911 mission to identify and act against global terror.<br /><br />All people should be remembered for their good deeds.But to keep truth in perspective,we should also be remembered by all of our deeds.

 

[theriver]

Re: Mandella's son "Kicks The Bucket"

The majority of the planet's population as well as their leaders fit into that category. (re: Iraq)

 

[NathanY]

Re: Mandella's son "Kicks The Bucket"

It does not matter if these people are from 3rd world countries, if they cant read, whatever. They can still HEAR cant they? Missionaries have been going to these areas for years, speaking their language, and explaning to them the consequences of their actions. They have been warned that if they continue to have sex, they will contract the virus and DIE. But they do not care, they continue to do it. Now, since others wanted to bring God into it, it clearly states in the Bible, that God will punish fornicators. Sorry to be so cold, but this disease is stoppable, but no-one wants to listen because they do not like the answer, or call it "impractical", on the contrary, it is very practical. Do these people have no self control? Are they animals? I had a dog once that would hump the couch. Is that how it is over there? I dont think so. Use some common sense.<br /><br />I guess it is easier to hand out free condoms and say: Have a good time! There are many around the world that will pay good money if you get aids because you are too ignorant to exercise self control.

 

[Nos4r2]

Re: Mandella's son "Kicks The Bucket"

Personally I view ALL these big killers (HIV, ebola,tsunamis,famine etc) as a process of natural selection. It aint nice, but it's the way it happens if you ignore facts, bicker between countries,stick to a flawed belief system etc etc.<br />It's all linked to a refusal to co-operate with each other and recognise that co-operation and education is the way forward.<br />For example- the tsunami wouldnt have been as big a killer had the countries concerned installed the sonar early warning system that was available to them. Instead they argued over who it'd benefit most and ask for our help after the fact.<br />Aids wouldn't be the problem in the areas it is if the governments concerned co-operated and educated their people rather than spending the money on the military.<br />Ditto ebola and the current famines. <br />It's frightening how the countries that co-operate are the ones that always end up propping up the people who don't...<br />It might not be the politically correct way to speak nowadays but my view is let them sort their own cr*p out. They either do it or they die.Why should we have to take responsiblity for their inaction?

 

[theriver]

Re: Mandella's son "Kicks The Bucket"

Some perspective:<br /><br /> Pandemic Info