Love, Necessity and Pride

[JDA1975]

Re: Love, Necessity and Pride

Thanks WoG,

That's a good idea, BUT, the real question is...

Do I really need to put this in?
This stuff seems like it was put in there for sound absorption, doesn't really look structural, I may be wrong...wouldn't be the first time:redface:
Plus I am never really going to be blasting along at full throttle for more than few minutes, so the noise really doesn't bother me...And...

If I do, should it be glued down with some kind of adhesive?

Thanks, GT1M

It is also used for floatation, in case of a hull breach, it keeps your boat from sinking in less than a minute! properly foamed, it should stay afloat even when waterlogged, the blue foam wog suggested would your cheapest and easiest alternative, or hit Wal-Mart during the winter off season and buy all they foam pool noodles, to fill the voids!

 

[oops!]

Re: Love, Necessity and Pride

hi ....im back....

the house boat i have been working on is now totally finished.....unless the owner decides there is more he wants done.

ok......i was not aware that you were the one that installed the alum brackets (knees) and strap.....good idea with a failing transom.

exactaly like you said....you cannot use pressure treated ply wood with aluminum......it will eat the aluminium, but ,,,,since that stuff wont be there when you are done.....it is a moot point.

ok........some foam is structural.....

after the boat builders were ordered by the coast guard to use foam in there boats....the builders found out that they could use foam to re enforce the hulls, and use less glass and resin.......that made the boats lighter and still gave strength, the boats also rode softer.

however....another side affect .....is that if the foam becomes water logged......the boat will rot.....good for the builders...bad for the consumer.

bayliner is a typical example of this type of construction.

according to the uscg rules.......if you are a back yard restorer......foam is not mandatory. however.....back yard builders like the idea of emergency floatation.....and foam is the best for that.......so......they have tried everything from ping pong balls to pool noodles.
so far......the pink or blue rigid insulation is working best for budgets and satisfying the need for floatation.

however......in your case......i dont know if your hull needs foam for the structural aspect of integrity. walk on your hull when everything is out......see if it flexes too much.
if so......you may choose to add another layer of 1708 over the inside of the hull.....or just re foam it with pour in foam. once the hull is sealed....the pour in foam should last 15 years with minimal upkeep.
if you want to go a little farther.....in my thread is a way to get all the benefits of foam without the worry of water intrusion....ever.
foam has some super qualities that i absolutely love.......but the water soaking is aspect in time is just terrible for the longevity of the stringers and transom.

one of the things i really like about foam is the fact that if the hull is penetrated by a stump or other item.....the foam acts like a second hull.....and stops the water from flooding in.
chances are.......if the hull is penetrated...you may not even notice till your hull gets heavy......that is fantastic performance of a product !

so....to foam or not ......is your call as the owner of the boat.....but whetever you decide...there are options available to you.

cheers
oops

 

[GT1000000]

Re: Love, Necessity and Pride

I knew I would actually learn some new stuff...

OK, while I am waiting for the Sun to rise, I have a question regarding hulls and stringers...

Yesterday, when I was cleaning up and taking some pics, I was walking around inside the hull with my entire 250 pound heft...out of a natural desire to test things, I literally stepped "HEAVILY" on all parts of the hull, kind of like to see if there were any noticeable weak spots...much to my surprise, it felt just as solid as when the boat was in one piece...

Now the question is...

IF, it feels this solid, when I go poking around the stringers to find any signs of rot or wood failure, I find that there is extensive rot, but again, everything feels solid...
Should I still go through a replacement of the damaged or rotted stringers??? OR, should I leave well enough alone, and rely on the inherent strength of the fiberglass?

Let me reiterate, this thing feels completely solid under my fat A*# steps...

Opinions?...

AND, this is just hearsay, but I have read in other forums, Glasstream Boats didn't use wood, except in the transom, for structural integrity...is this an urban legend, myth, or otherwise a falsehood???

Next, will be measuring for materials, taking notes, and gathering the necessary tools and supplies...Probably start grinding and fitting by the next weekend...Mostly because of money issues:facepalm:...

Oh, and BTW, I am going to go for the extra expense of Marine Ply for the Transom Structure and any under deck structural repairs/replacements.
If I find that I only need 1-2 more sheets to complete this project, I may just do it all in Marine Ply, however, I still have quite a few square feet of wood replacement that I must do to the entire upper deck/cap...all of the hatches,decking, and flooring, along with any modifications, which may require wood in their construction...

OH, and one more thing, what is the correct term for the missing brace that runs on top of the Knee braces and across the Transom? See the Green Lines in the attachments...

GT1M

 

[GT1000000]

Re: Love, Necessity and Pride

Questions about laminating plywood for the transom and actual installation...

While more expensive, can epoxy be used to laminate the transom plates together and to the properly prepped hull, instead of using the CSM and resin between the layers?
Would anything else need to be added to the epoxy, like a thickener, to use in this fashion?

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Love, Necessity and Pride

Take core samples of your stringers, If you get wood shavings on your drill bit then they used wood for the stringers. Using Marine Ply, IMHO is not needed but it's your choice. Laminating the wood for your transom and stringers can be accomplished with any good quality adhesive. Epoxy is just one of many. PL Adhesive, Titebond III wood glue and or Gorilla Glue are all good choices. For adhering it to the outer skin, I'd recommend the thickened PB mix

 

[Cadwelder]

Re: Love, Necessity and Pride

Okie doakie, let me chime in here if you don't mind.

As for the stringers...the fiberglass around them may make them seem fine when they really aren't. Take the samples like Woody said and find out if there is rotten wood there. If they are solid then leave them be, but I bet they are not. It's a 1988 so I'd bet you a dollar to a donut it has wood stringers.

Core the transom as well, with the cap off now is the perfect time to build it all back right and not have to worry about it anymore.

Marine grade plywood is my material of choice too. The cost is higher but it will take less resin to glass it so it's not as pricey when you look at it that way. There are other choices, but MG is the best one. (It stays nice and straight when you cut it too)

Epoxy can be used to "glue" the transom wood to the outer skin, as well as many other methods. I use about three layers of CSM and while it's still wet attach and clamp. The thickened resin that Woody mentioned is fine too. (Personally I'm not to crazy about PL for the transom, it's okay for bedding stringers and the such)

OH, and one more thing, what is the correct term for the missing brace that runs on top of the Knee braces and across the Transom? See the Green Lines in the attachments...

I call it the cross brace, quite typical in bass boats when the wood transom is only the center section. It adds stability to the rest of the transom.

When you get her all back together, deck glassed in and all you'll be ready to pour the foam, but we'll address that chapter when it's time.

CW

 

[GT1000000]

Re: Love, Necessity and Pride

Been raining since yesterday morning, so I haven't had a chance to core the stringers, but I suspect there is nothing solid left in them, except of course the outer layer of glass and resin...

Post #13 shows where the transom area has already been stripped out and is ready for some grinding...

GT1M

 

[Cadwelder]

Re: Love, Necessity and Pride

Post #13 shows where the transom area has already been stripped out and is ready for some grinding...

Yes it does, my bad. Not sure how I missed that set of good pictures.

 

[GT1000000]

Re: Love, Necessity and Pride

Just a quick update, stopped raining, got home from work, and tore out all the foam...

Definitely found some seriously water logged foam...a 4" square piece weighed about an ounce or two dry, the wet stuff weighed about 3-4 times that amount.
Maybe about 1/8 to 1/4 of it was actually water logged...not too bad considering...

The entire hull doesn't look like it will take more than a few cubic feet of foam, so I will eventually be replacing all of it.
After reading all about it on various threads, I figure the expense and the added safety margin are well worth it...
I will probably be doing it similar to oops! way... with the pvc drains and wrapped in plastic...
There were definitely way too many places that the water would stand and not drain properly, this will be remedied...

Got too dark to take core samples from stringers, but I am definitely not holding my breath...:facepalm:

Oh well, I suppose when it is all said and done, it will not only look like a new boat, it should feel like one...

Anyhow, here's a couple of pics of the de-foamed hull, and just for fun, I did a couple of color renderings of what I might like it to look like when I finish...
Any opinions, comments, or sarcastic jabs are welcomed...

And to all a good evening...
GT1M

 

[BobsGlasstream]

Re: Love, Necessity and Pride

AND, this is just hearsay, but I have read in other forums, Glasstream Boats didn't use wood, except in the transom, for structural integrity...is this an urban legend, myth, or otherwise a falsehood???

I think I can answer this question pretty well.
I'm pretty sure that they used wood in the stringers, I can't be sure because I couldn't find much of anything that actually resembled wood. LOL
Some boat manufacturer's did build boats without wood in the stringers and I'm pretty sure a lot of them are now building without wood. However back in 1988 Glasstream was not one of them.
Have fun with the project.
Bob

 

[JDA1975]

Re: Love, Necessity and Pride

Like your color idea, the lines...favorite would be yellowish one, but that's only because the other 2 have red in them and i don't like red...They all look good though, whatever color you decide will look sharp!

 

[GT1000000]

Re: Love, Necessity and Pride

Doctor, the biopsy is 100% conclusive,

the wood cancer is terminal.

I give the patient an excellent chance of recovery with a complete transplant...

Hi-Ho, Hi-ho,
to Home Depot, I will go...
To get supplies,
To fry my eyes,
with grinding dust,
reglass, I must,
itch and burn,
but it will turn,
into a boat,
that will float,
HI-HO, HI-HO...

GT1M

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Love, Necessity and Pride

Careful or You'll take a bite out of that bad apple and go to sleep until the prince comes and kisses you.

 

[GT1000000]

Re: Love, Necessity and Pride

After removing the hull from the stringers, this is all that's left of the boat:facepalm:...What now???

 

[BobsGlasstream]

Re: Love, Necessity and Pride

Let it dry well, add a little resin and one match. Sing songs and roast marshmellows. Stay warm. Don't eat the marshmellows.
Best wishes.
Bob

 

[GT1000000]

Re: Love, Necessity and Pride

Started grinding. Oh what fun, now I know why I need goggles...Covered myself in talcum powder and cloth, but my eyeballs are still burning...oh well, eye drops help soften the pain for now...

Hey, I been posting so much nonsense that I done got myself promoted...


Wooohooo, I guess

GT1M

 

[JDA1975]

Re: Love, Necessity and Pride

Started grinding. Oh what fun, now I know why I need goggles...Covered myself in talcum powder and cloth, but my eyeballs are still burning...oh well, eye drops help soften the pain for now...

Hey, I been posting so much nonsense that I done got myself promoted...


Wooohooo, I guess

GT1M

Don't do it, eyedrops may ease the pain, but that stuff will damage your eyes...Also, if your not wearing eye protection are you at least wearing a respirator? Fiberglass bust in the lungs can cause you all kinds of problems. Wait til you have the protection before going at it, so you will get to enjoy your boat!

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Love, Necessity and Pride

STOP!!!!! What ever you do, Get better Eye Protection and Make sure your respirator is doing the job. I am Serious!!!! You must not ignore this. Fiberglass in your eyes and or lungs is NOT to be messed with. If you have to get one of these...

http://forums.iboats.com/aclk?sa=l&...tm_campaign=Google_Shopping_Feed&kw={keyword}

$100.00 bucks but a lung transplant cost $100,000.00 or more.

Again, I am SERIOUS!!!!!

 

[oops!]

Re: Love, Necessity and Pride

Started grinding. Oh what fun, now I know why I need goggles...Covered myself in talcum powder and cloth, but my eyeballs are still burning...oh well, eye drops help soften the pain for now...

Hey, I been posting so much nonsense that I done got myself promoted...


Wooohooo, I guess

GT1M

lol. welcome petty officer ! congrats.

even your eyes, get dust in them.......in the glasser and tinny vid......it says "you have to wrap your self like a mummy" to work on glass boats....this is correct.
the stuff will never come out of your lungs, and it will never break down.....so you have to be really careful.
if you dont wear goggles, one shot of offspray from the grinder will have you running to the eye wash station, and the eye wash they sell in the drug stores now is just carp !
i have gone to the doctor several times now, about getting stuff in my eyes.
im also tired of waking up with carp running out of my eyes in the morning so bad i cant see.

this is what i use now.

http://www.professionalequipment.co...e-full-facepiece-m-l-76008a/respirator-masks/

of all the tools i have.....this is my pride and joy.

but even a cheap pair of goggles are far better than nothing.

sorry.....but your eyes aren't worth a boat.

even mixing filler like cabosil or mekp. use them !

 

[JDA1975]

Re: Love, Necessity and Pride

I really need to get one of those masks Oops, I have tight fitting goggles and respirator, and wear a painters hood over all that as well, but those have the distinct advantage of not fogging up....and a wider viewing angle....gotta get my arse outta the dog house and tell my wife what I want for christmas! I already bout her a vaccuum cleaner!

Oh yeah wear them for anything chemical....I was doing a quick acetone wash and went to wet my rag and somehow splashed acetone in my eye! came in cursing and told wife nothing is wrong except I am an idiot!