Looking for definitive info on glassing a transome to my particular boat

[Darren Nemeth]

Hello, all,

Winter is coming on fast and I need help before it gets too cold to glass.

Here is where I am at. I ground off the old, rotted transom off my boat and have several problems / questions that I need help with before I feel confident in replacing it.

The first is that I am completely new to grinding fiberglass boats with a grinder. As you can see in the attached picture I got all the old transom and paint off BUT the surface is not smooth at all. In several spot I even ground down to the gel coat.

What do I have to put on this to make the hull smooth enough to properly and correctly laminate the new transom to it?

As it is right now, there will be too many gaps between the hull and marine ply.

Second issue is this. I read all the info here about what type of glass fabric to use on laminating in the transom wood pieces together and to the boat but not a definitive cloth weight.

My boat is a 14 foot 1969 Glastron V-145. The template I made is 58 inches at its longest point and averages 16 inches in height. The heighest point is 21 inches. Not a large transom at all.

Is a lighter weight glass cloth inadequate? Is a heaver weight (which will soak in much more of the expensive epoxy) too much? For my boat, what is the appropriate weave of cloth I will need? And weight?

I want to get started on this pronto but am not 100% sure or confident about these two things.

I have the "Runabout Renovation" book by Jim Anderson but it also does not give specifics on the appropriate weight of cloth needed, either.

Thanks in advance.

 

[oops!]

Re: Looking for definitive info on glassing a transome to my particular boat

darren.....its innaprppreate that you use the "W" word when most of us are in denile......

how ya doin bud? was thinkin of ya and your proj today.

no worries mate....


if youve ground thru the hull on the transom to the gellcoat....add a layer of one ox csm to the transom then a full layer of 1708 bi ax.....you need to rebuild the glass hull on the transom before you put the wood back on...the first layer of csm will fill the gaps left by the grinder then the 1708....will repair the hull......then just apply the transom using regular methods youve read here about....

wrap the new transom in csm or light "veil" woven cloth you can find it at wallmart or a home depot type store......

8 oz is plenty for the transom covering with the woven....or if you are using epoxy......2 layers of csm is just fine.....what you are trying to do is waterproof it........the wood is the structural support for your motor.

im on line for a bit longer so if you have questions post back

 

[Darren Nemeth]

Re: Looking for definitive info on glassing a transome to my particular boat

Thanks.

I am a bit sleepy right now so I will ask later today.

Here is another problem. A big one. Which resin do I use?

My boat is a Glastron from 1969. They say epoxy and polyester don't mix. If I were to glass the transom wood to the hull and it turns out the hull was made of polyester will it still stick to it?

 

[oops!]

Re: Looking for definitive info on glassing a transome to my particular boat

personal preference darren......your hull is made out of polyester resin and chopped strand fiber glass shot out of a gun called a chopper gun.

you just have a small out board on thet boat so you would never need the stregnth that epoxy will give you.....but its your choice......just rember epoxy will stick to poly.......(so you can use epoxy on your transom) BUT....poly wont stick to epoxy......(so if you do the transom in epoxy.....you cant add anything to it using poly)

here is a glass and resin primer

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=272983

i would think poly is just fine for what you are doing....and cheaper....but its your boat bud....use what ever you want !

cheers
oops

 

[Robj]

Re: Looking for definitive info on glassing a transome to my particular boat

I would do as Oops said, layer of matt and 1708 to the transom to rebuild it. Or where you went down to the gel coat, patch those areas with matt first, then another layer of matt and then 1708. Get the new ply ready, laminate if more than 1 sheet is being used, seal all surfaces with resin. Mix up a batch of resin with cabosil and glass fibres, real liquidy mix, not like a putty, spread it onto the transom, get another layer of matt, wet it out and put onto the transom ply and then clamp it to the transom. The reason I use the resin cabosil glass fibre mix is to fill in the viods between the transom and the new ply. Once clamped you should see excess resin oozing out the sides.

Have a great day,

Rob.

 

[oops!]

Re: Looking for definitive info on glassing a transome to my particular boat

good post rob

 

[Darren Nemeth]

Re: Looking for definitive info on glassing a transome to my particular boat

darren.....its innaprppreate that you use the "W" word when most of us are in denile......

lol!!! I know what you mean. Its getting colder every night here in MI.

how ya doin bud? was thinkin of ya and your proj today.

I got my ID theft thing straitened out but then business died down because of the new school season. Now that money is coming in I am ready to jump on this and get all the structural stuff accomplished ASAP.

if youve ground thru the hull on the transom to the gellcoat....add a layer of one ox csm to the transom then a full layer of 1708 bi ax.....you need to rebuild the glass hull on the transom before you put the wood back on...the first layer of csm will fill the gaps left by the grinder then the 1708....will repair the hull......then just apply the transom using regular methods youve read here about

Ok. 1 oz. chopped mat strand then layer of 1708. Got ya.

Can I let the 1oz cms repairs lay up then wet and put in the 1708 on the same day I install the transom or is that too much wet polyester in one spot at the same time?

Will I need to lay the 1708 uncut or is it okay to do it in sections?

wrap the new transom in csm or light "veil" woven cloth you can find it at wallmart or a home depot type store......

8 oz is plenty for the transom covering with the woven....or if you are using epoxy......2 layers of csm is just fine.....what you are trying to do is waterproof it........the wood is the structural support for your motor.

What type of cloth for the deck should I use? Perhaps I can get one big roll of 8 oz woven, if that's what I need, and kill two birds with one stone.

Remember, there willbe no room for walking in the boat. Just a 2 to 3 foot space between the back of the seats and the splashwell.

I tried to find your recommendations on stringer glassing but there are so many posts in that tread that I can't find it anywhere.

Looking at my boat I see the stringers are covered with csm and that is covered with woven. The stringers are not very tall. Two at the sides of the hull are no more than 1 1/2 to 2 inch high!

Also, I have another problem. The fur marine ply is $100 a sheet and for reasons of shape the flooring is 4 ft 6 inches, therefore to replace the whole deck the price will be over $300, three 4X8 sheets cut in 4'6" by 4' lengths with extra left over for the stringers.

Therefore the last peice of deck, the last 3 foot, will all be under the bow. Can I get away with pine outdoor grade ply found at all big box hardware stores over here for under the bow? It will save me $75.

Today, however, I am leaning to just getting the three sheets of expensive marine fur.

 

[Robj]

Re: Looking for definitive info on glassing a transome to my particular boat

I have thought about this a little further. Since you ground the transom down to the gelcoat, you need to rebuild that first to its original state and strength. How much you need to add depends on how much was there originally. In my previous post I suggested a layer of matt and 1708. Since I am not at the boat I do not know if this is sufficient. Only you can tell whether this would be sufficient. My guess it may be, but again I have not seen the boat. You will have to decide.

Once you have that figured out, do as I suggested in the previous post.

Have a great day,

Rob.

 

[Darren Nemeth]

Re: Looking for definitive info on glassing a transome to my particular boat

personal preference darren......your hull is made out of polyester resin and chopped strand fiber glass shot out of a gun called a chopper gun.

That is the same way some builders make their reproduction 1966 Batmobile glass auto bodies!!

Now that you said that, you are right. Poly resin sounds much better. If I mess up it is only $35 or so a gallon.

The $100+ per gal for Epoxy has made me put off fixing the boat a few times.

here is a glass and resin primer

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=272983

Thanks.

 

[Darren Nemeth]

Re: Looking for definitive info on glassing a transome to my particular boat

I have thought about this a little further. Since you ground the transom down to the gelcoat, you need to rebuild that first to its original state and strength. How much you need to add depends on how much was there originally. In my previous post I suggested a layer of matt and 1708. Since I am not at the boat I do not know if this is sufficient. Only you can tell whether this would be sufficient. My guess it may be, but again I have not seen the boat. You will have to decide.

Once you have that figured out, do as I suggested in the previous post.

Have a great day,

Rob.

I just checked outside and most of the cloth is ground off and it is mostly 75% gel coat.:redface:

IIRC, just one layer of woven was used. I recall that because I was amazed how fast the grinder was removing it down to the gelcoat.

Is that normal? I am told that this boat may have been built for display because it never had a full transom.

 

[jcsercsa]

Re: Looking for definitive info on glassing a transome to my particular boat

Hi Darren, I just got caught up on your thread and i see my good buddie oops has got you going in the right direction !!!

Where you at in saginaw ? I grew up in the city brockway and woodbridge , I am down in burton now , but just wanted to say Hi and welcome .

oops is one of the best guys one here he got me threw mine ,[ just got her in the water this week] but i couldnt have done it with out him , he wont steer yea wrong !!! John

 

[Darren Nemeth]

Re: Looking for definitive info on glassing a transome to my particular boat

Where you at in saginaw ? I grew up in the city brockway and woodbridge , I am down in burton now , but just wanted to say Hi and welcome .

Hello,

I am very familiar with Brockway and Woodbridge. However, it is definitely the not same as you probably remember it to be. Mostly slum rentals have taken a hold of about 2/3 of Saginaw's west side neighborhoods.

Because of that I had to make an emergency move to Zilwaukee about 5 years ago. I am across the street from the boat docks park and it kills me everyday to see others on the water with their boats and mine without a steering wheel, and deck and with holes and no seats.....

oops is one of the best guys one here he got me threw mine ,[ just got her in the water this week] but i couldnt have done it with out him , he wont steer yea wrong !!! John

I am glad to hear that you got yours finished.

Hopefully, I can have all of the structurals in mine fixed before winter, during which I will be planning out the fiberglass rebuilding of the Batboat design for the next summer.

 

[jcsercsa]

Re: Looking for definitive info on glassing a transome to my particular boat

OHH really , Johns Meat Market was my dads place !! yea i know what saginaw is like , I still have a house up there . I also moved out about 5 years ago ,
OHH yea i know right where your at , used to have a friend from school that grew up right there, Breadly was his last name ..
To cool on the bat boat , can you get some pics up , all the guys really like pics !!I also got another boat I have to work on this winter a 68 crownline !! and I still got to paint this girl !!

Ok if you ever need some help just yell !! John

 

[Robj]

Re: Looking for definitive info on glassing a transome to my particular boat

This may be of interest to you.

http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/boa/813087048.html

Have a great day,

Rob.

 

[Darren Nemeth]

Re: Looking for definitive info on glassing a transome to my particular boat

OHH really , Johns Meat Market was my dads place !! yea i know what saginaw is like , I still have a house up there . I also moved out about 5 years ago ,

My Grandma used to get headcheese there. I mean... not your house but the Meat Market!!!!!!

Your market used to make their own sausage, right? It was one of the best anyone could get.

There is another meat market that went out of biz in Bay City recently. It was in business for 80 or 90 years!! Where are these old neighborhood shops going!

I used to be involved in civic stuff, spent a lot of time at City Hall and remember your mom appearing in front of the City Council to complain about the new, at the time, trash pickup millage saying something like she wanted her household to be exempt because they used the dumpster at the meat market for trash pickup.

And I can't blame her.

Sadly, like many others, all my old hang outs are gone and everyone I've known from the 1980s - 90s have long since moved away. The ones who've stayed are stoners or not doing well at all.

I can remember the inside of that market like it was yesterday. Brings back a lot of great memories.

It was one of those places that used to wrap the meat in paper and tie it with the string.

OHH yea i know right where your at , used to have a friend from school that grew up right there, Breadly was his last name ..
To cool on the bat boat , can you get some pics up , all the guys really like pics !!I also got another boat I have to work on this winter a 68 crownline !! and I still got to paint this girl !!

Ok if you ever need some help just yell !! John

There isn't that much left to it and I haven't posted updates at my blog in a while but lots of photos are there and more are to follow!

Please post a link to photos of that Crownline.

 

[Robj]

Re: Looking for definitive info on glassing a transome to my particular boat

John,

Your dad used to make Hungarian sausage and sell it at his meat market? My guess is that your ancestors are from Hungary based on your last name. European definitely. Actually Nemeth is also a very common Hungarian name also. My parents are refugees from 1957.

Have a great day,

Rob.

 

[jcsercsa]

Re: Looking for definitive info on glassing a transome to my particular boat

My Grandma used to get headcheese there. I mean... not your house but the Meat Market!!!!!!

Your market used to make their own sausage, right? It was one of the best anyone could get.

{ Yep that was my dad , I still make my own, and the slim jims !!!!!!! I still am thinking of opening my own shop down here !!! }




There is another meat market that went out of biz in Bay City recently. It was in business for 80 or 90 years!! Where are these old neighborhood shops going!

{ OHH really , I worked at Jacks fruit market for 3 years , till I got in to kroger down here !!
the small shop were closing when dad was still going , in saginaw what there used to be 4 or 5 small shop, Hermans over on mack, and provinzones out past the mall , and a few others !! }



I used to be involved in civic stuff, spent a lot of time at City Hall and remember your mom appearing in front of the City Council to complain about the new, at the time, trash pickup millage saying something like she wanted her household to be exempt because they used the dumpster at the meat market for trash pickup.

And I can't blame her.

{OHHH yea mom and dad , the last few years dad wasnt really busy , so he wanted to use the city pick up !!!! yep thats mom !!! dont get her dander UP she will fight tooth and nail !!! lol }



Sadly, like many others, all my old hang outs are gone and everyone I've known from the 1980s - 90s have long since moved away. The ones who've stayed are stoners or not doing well at all.

I can remember the inside of that market like it was yesterday. Brings back a lot of great memories.

It was one of those places that used to wrap the meat in paper and tie it with the string.


{OHH yea , the hole west side has just gone down hill , man when we moved ther in 74 , it was the greatest , in the late 80s and 90s the slum lord took over !! I dont hardly know any one left there !!! well a few , but they cant get the money out of the house that they put into it so they are stuck !!! }




There isn't that much left to it and I haven't posted updates at my blog in a while but lots of photos are there and more are to follow!

Please post a link to photos of that Crownline.

there are a few pic in my photo bucket of the crownline !! I will start a new thread when i get her home ,

love the bat boat , are you going to get the cannon to fire ??? air or water ?? your up north a little farther then where my buddie grew up , your closer to the bridge then he was , if the pics in your blog are at your place ??

man i still didnt use the mulit quote right I got most of my post in your post sorry !!!!! John

 

[jcsercsa]

Re: Looking for definitive info on glassing a transome to my particular boat

[John,

Your dad used to make Hungarian sausage and sell it at his meat market? My guess is that your ancestors are from Hungary based on your last name. European definitely. Actually Nemeth is also a very common Hungarian name also. My parents are refugees from 1957.

Have a great day,

Rob.

Hay Rob, yep sure am Hungarian , and my dad also came oer in 57.
My dad met my mom here over in the thumb , he was living with his uncle that had come over some years before !!
He did make some Hungarian sausage, but he was better knowen for his polish sausage, and his breakfast sausage, used to sell it by the hundered of LBS a week !!! yea I know a huncky making polish sausage , go figure !! lol John

 

[oops!]

Re: Looking for definitive info on glassing a transome to my particular boat

ok.....where do we start you sausage heads

small world eh?.......this site is too cool.....the other thing is....(i dont know how close you two are togeather, geographicly) but darren......johns boat is allmost the same as yours...!

same builder....just a different mold, but the construction tequnechis are the same.....my buddie john could do that one in his sleep....(as he just finished his)

as for the boat being a mock up......i can see that the transom might not be the same....but the hull will be the same thickness as the reat of the glastrons....as the company didnt "do a seperate bat boat"....they took a standard hull....and just dressed the cap.

26 grit can chew up a hull pretty fast.....
if you are really that far down ....then two layers of 1708 on the transom will be fine.....after you put the wood in..and glass over that...it will all be one peice any how....

you can only do two layers at a time...(wet on wet)....you dont have to wait till full cure to add another layer or in this case transom......you just have to wauit till the exothermic heat is gone out of the last layer you laid......(too hot will make the resin "cook and it will be very brittle"

exterior grade ply...usaually fur....is just fine ....that marine stuff is big bucks....and not nessary......even for the deck.....

ill re read the posts and see if i missed any questions.....and btw....you guys should see rob j's boat.......wow

 

[oops!]

Re: Looking for definitive info on glassing a transome to my particular boat

thanks for the compliments john......and im truly sorry for the bad advice i gave you on the proj......lets hope the divers can get if full enough of ping pong balls to raise it from davie jones locker...

ill try harder on the crown line....


ok....take a chain saw....start at the keel......then make a mold...then add a cuddy.....then......