Livewell Timer?

[smokeonthewater]

Re: Livewell Timer?

it is piggy backed on the ground terminal for the livewell switch.

that should be fine

Hmm I dunno... Even if the timer fried, the circuit breaker still should have popped before the switch melted.... have you tested the timer yet to see it it is still functional... I'm leaning toward a defective switch now..

 

[KevinWI]

Re: Livewell Timer?

that should be fine

Hmm I dunno... Even if the timer fried, the circuit breaker still should have popped before the switch melted.... have you tested the timer yet to see it it is still functional... I'm leaning toward a defective switch now..

I hooked it up normal....one switch, one timer one pump. and at 55 second mark, the timer switches gears, but doesn't turn off.
At the 4 minute mark (when it is supposed to turn back on) it kicks into a higher gear....so in a sense, I think the timer is fried, but the switch is still good.

<<<edit>>>>
I left it hooked up and running for 10 minutes cycling on/off (well, off for it anyway with it not turning all the way off)....that switch got HOT! didn't melt, but it was hot to the touch! switch box, actuator and all!
Switched it to manual and ran it for 7 minutes....it was lukewarm at best.

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: Livewell Timer?

sigh.... where did you get the panel?
try wiring the pump and timer to the battery with no switch... see if it works and see if the wires get warm/hot

 

[fishrdan]

Re: Livewell Timer?

Not sure why you couldn't PM me, I checked the settings and PM's were enabled. Maybe it was a new "feature" from the forum "hickup" earlier today.

I hooked it up normal....one switch, one timer one pump. and at 55 second mark, the timer switches gears, but doesn't turn off.
At the 4 minute mark (when it is supposed to turn back on) it kicks into a higher gear....so in a sense, I think the timer is fried, but the switch is still good.

<<<edit>>>>
I left it hooked up and running for 10 minutes cycling on/off (well, off for it anyway with it not turning all the way off)....that switch got HOT! didn't melt, but it was hot to the touch! switch box, actuator and all!
Switched it to manual and ran it for 7 minutes....it was lukewarm at best.

Do you have a DVM, mutlimeter? When the timer cycles off (well, not off but running the pump at 1/2 speed) check the voltage at the timer's output, then at the positive wire going to the pump. You're checking the voltage at opposite sides off the switch to see if the voltage is dropping across the switch, if the voltage is low coming out of the timer, and how low. Let up know what the voltages are. If the voltage is really low, the pump is going to draw more current trying to turn the pump and possibly causing your problem. I'd test it with the switch in place, then with timer just connected to the pump and a 12V source (switch removed).

(hope this makes sense, paying more attention to GoldRush than typing..)

Oh yeah, on that timer, is it silent, no noise switching the pump on/off or does it click. Curious if it has a relay in it or just electronics.

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: Livewell Timer?

something else is still fishy 10 amp breaker and 20 amp switch...... there should be no way to smoke the switch

 

[KevinWI]

Re: Livewell Timer?

sorry...no volt meter. it does make a click when it is supposed to turn on/off.

 

[KevinWI]

Re: Livewell Timer?

really really strange now.....when it starts up and runs sometimes it will go thru a cycle of switching gears instead of shutting down...after that, it turns on/off as it's supposed to....I noted that when it does switch rpm instead of shutting down...that's when the switch gets real real hot.
Right now it's been cycling on/off for over 10 minutes...just like it's designed.

 

[fishrdan]

Re: Livewell Timer?

I noted that when it does switch rpm instead of shutting down...that's when the switch gets real real hot.

Without a DVM you will have to just start swapping things around to troubleshoot the problem.

Is just the switch getting hot, is the timer getting hot too? Is that the switch that melted or a different switch? Have you tried a different switch and taking the switches out of the equation and just running it wired up?

I'm thinking you have a timer issue, though it could be a switch. Try connecting just the pump across the switch, where the timer is connected right now, and see it the switch still heats up while the pump is running. IF, the pump is running and the switch does not heat up, I'd call the switch good, especially if you can put the timer back in the circuit and the switch starts heating up again.

I'd call RigRite on Monday, and explain what their timer is doing and have them ship you a replacement. Their instructions and tech docs are vague so I don't think you (we) did anything wrong trying to connect 2 pumps to the timer, it doesn't say not to, or give you current limitations. The switch diagram works and isn't causing the problem. So it's either the timer or the switch, or both (timer caused switch to go bad)... My vote is on the timer

I would be buying a second timer....

 

[MH Hawker]

Re: Livewell Timer?

well I also have that system on my boat , and didn't buy rig rites timers because I could not find a amp rating on any of thier timers and I have found that if it isn't rated it wont stand up and I am sure that's why the company its self suggested you use 2 timers they know it wont handle two pumps at the same time how ever you can wire it so you can use one timer and run both pumps , but it will only control one pump at a time that is how I have mine wired and it works fine ill draw up a diagram and post it. If you really need to run bouth at one time you will have to use a control relay with contacts rated at the pump amp load. and if you do I can draw you up the circuit just let me know.

 

[KevinWI]

Re: Livewell Timer?

well I also have that system on my boat , and didn't buy rig rites timers because I could not find a amp rating on any of thier timers and I have found that if it isn't rated it wont stand up and I am sure that's why the company its self suggested you use 2 timers they know it wont handle two pumps at the same time how ever you can wire it so you can use one timer and run both pumps , but it will only control one pump at a time that is how I have mine wired and it works fine ill draw up a diagram and post it.


View attachment 131804

Sounds interesting. Thanks for the offer.

 

[KevinWI]

Re: Livewell Timer?

Without a DVM you will have to just start swapping things around to troubleshoot the problem.

Is just the switch getting hot, is the timer getting hot too? Is that the switch that melted or a different switch? Have you tried a different switch and taking the switches out of the equation and just running it wired up?

I'm thinking you have a timer issue, though it could be a switch. Try connecting just the pump across the switch, where the timer is connected right now, and see it the switch still heats up while the pump is running. IF, the pump is running and the switch does not heat up, I'd call the switch good, especially if you can put the timer back in the circuit and the switch starts heating up again.

I'd call RigRite on Monday, and explain what their timer is doing and have them ship you a replacement. Their instructions and tech docs are vague so I don't think you (we) did anything wrong trying to connect 2 pumps to the timer, it doesn't say not to, or give you current limitations. The switch diagram works and isn't causing the problem. So it's either the timer or the switch, or both (timer caused switch to go bad)... My vote is on the timer

I would be buying a second timer....

Just the switch...timer is cool to the touch. I'm already having Rig Rite replace the timer and the panel maker is sending me out a new switch. I'm thinking a second timer is what is needed...also thinking rig rite may be junk...like MH Hawker stated...no label for amps on the timer module may be an indicator.

 

[MH Hawker]

Re: Livewell Timer?

Well not necessarily junk that company has been making those devices for a long time and I doubt they would be in business if that was the case. There are standards for marking electric devices, and when you run across a device that has no specifications, its called a task specific device and when you try to use it in a way that is different from what is intended it may or not work that's the gamble you take and in this case it is designed to handle a small amp load of 5 amps. One pump. The small bilge pumps I have used are 3 to 5 amps And those ratings are common on small unmarked solid state control devices. To make it work you use only one pump at a time or use a control relay that has the desired amp ratings to turn on and off the pumps. Or use 2 as the manufacture suggested.

The only reason a wire or switch ever smokes is when more amps that it is designed to handle is being drawn through it, that means its shorted or miss specked , and in this case it is miss wired and I would guess its wired to a ground that would be the only thing that would draw enough amps to cause it to smoke and far as the fuse not blowing. Fuses protect wire not devices and that depends on the wire gage if the wire is undersized for the fuse then yes it will smoke, then glow, then melt.

I strongly suggest you use two timers its simply easer to wire in like that and it will give you the results you are looking for.

 

[KevinWI]

Re: Livewell Timer?

oh yeah...I had already placed the order for the second timer. less of a headache.