Livewell Timer?

fishrdan

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Re: Livewell Timer?

that's the same link... try again?

LOL, copy-n-paste brain phart (copied Ebay URL into address bar of page displaying the RadioShack connectors, then copied to that link here....:rolleyes:)

All fixied now...

Sheesh, I hope we are done with this one...

Kev, are you out there? Need some wiring done... :D
 

smokeonthewater

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Re: Livewell Timer?

You don't spose he went to bed and left up toiling here w/o him do ya? lol

now get on over to the potted plant thread and pitch another .02 in ;)
 

fishrdan

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Re: Livewell Timer?

I think,,, so... (sad the be the minion toiling away, eh?)

I was just over on the infamous "potted" thread, poor guy from England getting beat up. I like one of the guy's responses, "Learn proper English" LOL (all in jest, of course)
 

KevinWI

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Re: Livewell Timer?

wow...you guys were busy late last night! I will give it a try sometime today...have to hit up radio shack. Thanks.

wait..so now green no longer goes to the pump? There are still two leads going to the pump?
 

KevinWI

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Re: Livewell Timer?

Ok....I wired it up EXACTLY like the diagram.....and guess what? it worked when I tested it out....but I need you guys to let me know if you see anything that possibly could cause an issue...BECAUSE.....while testing it out a second time, the timer didn't function and the livewell switch started smoking.....and it physically melted the plastic. Breaker didn't trip. Called the manufacturer and they never had it happen before and found it odd that it started melting the actual switch module and not trip the breaker. Only two things were drawing current....and it was both pumps running at the same time. The timer was on the lug nearest...anyone know how many amps that draws if any?

DSC05980.jpg.
 

fishrdan

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Re: Livewell Timer?

With a switch smoking like that, I would check all the wiring and make sure the hot wire going to the pump isn't grounding out, the wires on the panel are not touching a ground wire or the pump isn't shorted out internally. Does the pump run OK when it's running constant? For the switch to deform the plastic like that it had to be passing a good amount of current, which should have been above the rating of the breaker. Breaker should have tripped before melting the switch. What's the breaker size and how does it compare to the switch's rating?

What is the current draw on the pumps, or what model number are the pumps so it can be looked up online. The 500GPH pump I use draws about 2 amps, 2 of those shouldn't smoke a switch. What is the current rating on the switches, it should say on the switch somewhere. Also, what is the current rating on the timer, can it handle running 2 pumps at the same time, and did it go into melt-down from too much current? (Timer goes into melt-down drawing a bunch of current and smokes the switch...)

Edit; I checked Rig Rite's website and they don't have a current rating on the timer, even on the technical documentation for the timer. Does it say anything on the paperwork that come with the timer?
 

KevinWI

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Re: Livewell Timer?

I have a tsunami 500gph (1.8a) and a rule 500gph (2.5a).

The positives are all on an isolated terminal block so no grounding out there. Switch is rated 20a and breaker is 10a. I think I fried the timer because the pump stays on now and doesn't time off. The timer schematics don't say anything about draw amperage....just configuration.
 

smokeonthewater

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Re: Livewell Timer?

defective switch maybe? time to do some testing to isolate the problem(s)

I suggest that you double check the wiring vs the above instructions.... just to make sure
 

fishrdan

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Re: Livewell Timer?

I have a tsunami 500gph (1.8a) and a rule 500gph (2.5a).

The positives are all on an isolated terminal block so no grounding out there. Switch is rated 20a and breaker is 10a. I think I fried the timer because the pump stays on now and doesn't time off. The timer schematics don't say anything about draw amperage....just configuration.

I didn't catch this part, were both pumps running off the timer when the switch smoked? Or was it a different combination, 1 on timer and 1 on constant, or both on constant?

The current draw of those pumps isn't too much at 4.3A combined, but it's quite possible it's over the rating of the timer. Since RigRite doesn't know how to connect a single timer to 2 pumps through switches, the timer might not be designed to handle the current of 2 pumps. I checked Attwood's site and even their 1200GPH Tsunami pump only draws 3.5 amps. If RigRite designed the timer to handle 3.5 amps (with a bit of safety margin, say 4.0 amps), pulling 4.3 amps through it could be too much. You would have to call RigRite and ask them, see what they say about running 2 pumps off a single timer, or that amount of current off the timer. (Don't mention switches, just ask if you can connect the timer to the pumps direct, see what they say....)

I'm speculating here, but if that timer failed, it could have shorted to ground internally and caused the switch to melt like that. (Though,,, the 20 amp switch should have been able to handle 10amps of current the breaker should have tripped at.)
 

KevinWI

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Re: Livewell Timer?

I have a new switch and a new timer on the way already. I think the single timer to two pumps experiment is over. So I think the answer to my question in the first post is...."theoretically, yes. Practically, no". :) lol

<<<edit>>> both pumps were running on auto at the time....and also noted that when I saw smoke, the timer had passed the time to shut down but kept running.
 

KevinWI

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Re: Livewell Timer?

I did talk to rig rite when I wanted to know how to wire both together and they didn't know how. Their answer was that boat Mfgrs use two timers because the timers wore out too fast or so he said.
 

smokeonthewater

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Re: Livewell Timer?

there is just no reason for this to not have worked... While you could check with the manufacturer I just can't see the timer being unable to handle < 5 amps... the wiring plan is solid. As designed the circuit breaker should have popped long before damage to the switch... I suspect (but not sure of course) that you missed something.

The switch may have been defective but that doesn't explain the failure of the breaker to trip
 

KevinWI

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Re: Livewell Timer?

I had tested it for about 8 minutes before this. it had cycled on/off several times, then checked manual. Then put the camera on it and that is when the smoke started. not sure how I missed something if it was working correctly...then not.
 

KevinWI

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Re: Livewell Timer?

Kevin, if you listen close to the end of the video I sent you, you can hear the pumps change velocity.....it was at that point (55 second mark) that the timer was to have shut it off....but they didn't...that is when the smoke starts.
 

smokeonthewater

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Re: Livewell Timer?

yeah... that makes sense... I did notice that something changed and the pumps sounded different.... I wish I had it in front of me... I watched the vid you sent me several times and I can't make out the wires.... Where do you have the black from the timer going?
 

KevinWI

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Re: Livewell Timer?

it is piggy backed on the ground terminal for the livewell switch.
 

fishrdan

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Re: Livewell Timer?

Then put the camera on it and that is when the smoke started.

I can't believe I'm posting this, but, we gotta' see some footage of the smoking switch :D:facepalm:

Kevin, if you listen close to the end of the video I sent you, you can hear the pumps change velocity.....it was at that point (55 second mark) that the timer was to have shut it off....but they didn't...that is when the smoke starts.

Sounds like a hosed up timer to me...


RigRite saying boat builders use 2 timers, instead of doubling up pumps on 1 timer, due to short timer life,,, is kind of telling. Like their timers can't handle running 2 pumps.
 

KevinWI

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Re: Livewell Timer?

fisherdan...was going to send it to you too via PM, but you have it turned off....doesn't really show the smoke...I noted things weren't quite right and turned off the recorder. ;)
 
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