liberal utopia

[QC]

Re: liberal utopia

Originally posted by eeboater:<br /> How does the saying go... "if you are young and conservative then you are heartless, if you are old and liberal then you are brainless."

Actually, I thought it was a Winston Churchill quote. Something like "if you are under 30 and conservative, you haven't got a heart and over 30 and liberal, you haven't got a brain", but I just checked online and they say its is falsely attributed to him.<br /><br />BTW, my favorite Churchill quote is: Lady Astor: "Winston, if I were your wife I'd put poison in your coffee."<br />Winston: "Nancy, if I were your husband I'd drink it."

 

[eeboater]

Re: liberal utopia

Ahh -- I knew it was something like that. LMAO on the Churchill quote -- good stuff..<br /><br />Sean

 

[PW2]

Re: liberal utopia

The ACLU defends the constitution, Ralph. It has also defended David Duke and other right wing wackos.<br /><br />The ACLU specifically does not defend the views taken by their clients, but only their right as guaranteed by the constitution to espouse a particular view, however controversial or unpopular it may be. As long as they do it legally.<br /><br />It never ceases to amaze me why the right feels so threatened by a group whose sole goal is to protect our constitution and the rights it attempts to ensure.<br /><br />I would have thought the right would universally applaud their effort.

 

[Bondo]

Re: liberal utopia

"If you're Not a Liberal when You're Young,.. You've Got No Heart.............<br />If You're Not a Conservative by 30,.... You've got No Brains"..........<br />Samual Clemmens,aka Mark Twain......<br /><br /><br />The Problem with the ACLU is,..... <br />They have No Common Sense...................<br />Some Fights Just Shouldn't Be Fought.................<br />And,..... They seem to Fight ALL the Wrong 1s...........

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: liberal utopia

Amen Bondo. An organization (NAMBLA) who's reason for being is illegal, unethical and immoral should not be allowed to exists in any society, let alone enthusiastically defended for free! All you have to do is look at the cases the ACLU takes on and the ones they don't and that will show you what their true agenda is. Just count the number of anti-Christian law suits they have pending...<br /><br />Keep rationalizing PW... Better yet, move here to Boston and begin enjoying the "fruits" of your liberal utopia.

 

[PW2]

Re: liberal utopia

Well, it isn't the native Americans, or the Muslims, or the Budhists, or the Jews or any other religion other than Christian, that are trying, in direct opposition to the constitution, to force their religion on the rest of us. Little wonder they are a primary target.<br /><br />And I know nothing about Nambla, but I assume if they are directly breaking any laws, they are being charged with those offenses and brought to trial.<br /><br />But you cannot outlaw a group simply because you don't like what they think. We have plenty of laws to control what they do.<br /><br />freedom isn't necessarily easy, or comfortable.

 

[Bondo]

Re: liberal utopia

Originally posted by PW2:<br /> But you cannot outlaw a group simply because you don't like what they think. We have plenty of laws to control what they do.<br />

Really,..???................Al-Quiada,???................

 

[OLDSPUD]

Re: liberal utopia

So we've talked about oil, the Iraq war, and how inept GW is, seen some caustic one liners on both sides.<br /><br />I'll agree somewhat on Iraq, I believe though, if it ends up good for Iraq, GW will be a hero, and on the other hand, bad, he'll be a goat. I also believe that the dem's see it the same way, that is why they think this is a weak area for him. I still think a stable Iraq is good for the US. <br /><br />Oil, I like the idea of buying oil from other places first. We get oil form numerious sources, much of it comes from Mexico, and South America. I think it is better to use up their resources before we tap out our resources. Just this week they think they have found the largest deposit of oil in 30 years here in Central Utah, thinking over a billion barrels. Like I said before, their seems to be plenty of oil still around. I also think drilling in Anwar is a no brainer, their is no one there.<br />I think GW is shaking the hand with the Devil to get oil prices down now. I don't trust the Saudies much. <br /><br />Ditto heads,<br />well this is where I have a hard time. I can tell from prior comments that those who badmouth Limbaugh have not really listened to his show. This is where all the dems are fooled, they totally underestimate his audiance. It is filled with extremly intelligent people, who are free thinkers not just numbed robots. He has been my personal insperation for success. Because of his encouragement, I am where I am today, no kidding. If you think I'm nuts, listen to his program for six weeks, you all will be hooked agree with him or not, he is intoxicating. The humor on the show is the best.<br />Now for the other guys, I've tried to listen to Hannity, Savage, and so on.<br />Hannity, while I agree with most conservitative thought, I can't stand him. I'd rather listen to Alan Colmes. Savage is to unrealistic, Glen Beck is OK. But I'd prefer to listen to Dan Patrick on ESPN radio.<br />I can't stand Fox News, what the hell is good about two or four outraged people arguing every second. <br />Chris Matthews is a dork, all the Sunday shows suck.<br />AS far as the economy goes, I frankly don't think its bad, in fact generally, I'd say were doing quite well. I realize that there are those not doing as good as I, but I'm not doing as well as many of you. The natural unemployment rate in any economy is 4% to 5%.<br />Heck the UK is in double figures.<br />Big corporations are as bad as big trees. Like I asked before, what would you guys replace them with in your utopian economy, the government?<br />I have agreed that some greedy CEO's make all corporations look bad. Hell, who is gonna supply health coverage, again, the government?<br />Who is everyone going to work for if there wern't people willing to risk capital, and start there own business. And if these people are good at what they do, they become successfull, and their small corporations become large corporations, I say, is that bad? Again, Large corporations are as bad as large trees. Some large trees need to be cut down, but not all.<br /><br />I need to stop, so I will end by again stating my challange, what would your world be like if you libs got everything you wanted? I havn't seen an answer yet. <br />The dems have got themselves boxed in, they are now at the point that what is good for America is bad for them, and what is bad for America is good for them. <br />They have also lost their Christian support. They are the Godless party. Don't believe me, look around. See who the party is made of.<br /><br />Spud

 

[Skinnywater]

Re: liberal utopia

It never ceases to amaze me why the right feels so threatened by a group <ACLU>whose sole goal is to protect our constitution and the rights it attempts to ensure.

Given the costs your statement deserves all the fear that can be mustered to fight it. It is dripping in presumption.<br /><br />The Constitution doesn't attempt to ensure any rights. The Bill of Rights affirms that we have inalienable rights given by our creator. <br /><br />The sole purpose of The Constitution is to limit the powers of the government.<br /><br />If your beloved ACLU wasn't so busy redefineing and subverting it they would be out of a job.<br />With all ground work done by the framers of The Constitution, you'd think the ACLU's work would be a cakewalk. Instead as evidenced, 250 years later great efforts and resources, brilliant and corrupt minds that are a great cancer infecting the soul of The Constitution. <br /><br />The far left is guilty in it's intention to be proactive in destroying The Constitution.<br />Everyone else has only been guilty of being to disinterested, distracted or to selfish to enforce it.<br /><br />edited for spelling only

 

[Skinnywater]

Re: liberal utopia

Hey Spud,<br />Once it gets down to it I don't think we will disagree with much. <br />I think Democrats, moderates, Republicans, Conservatives, Americans and most of the world should fear the far left and Socialists in general.<br /><br />But it's important to stand on your own and if you're gonna talk the Conservative talk then you have to walk it to. <br />

I think GW is shaking the hand with the Devil to get oil prices down now. I don't trust the Saudies much.

As I've stated before, choosing between the lesser of two evils is getting unacceptable to me. And as someone who cherishes integrity it matters how the game is played.<br /><br />I listen to Rush almost daily as an alternative news source. I don't qualify as a "ditto head" because I'm not a Republican and I don't march the party line. Don't get me wrong, I have more in common with Republicans than the others but hypocracy is counter-productive.<br />I suppose I'm to "unrealistic".<br /><br />

.....so I will end by again stating my challange, what would your world be like if you libs got everything you wanted? I havn't seen an answer yet.

Spud as a couple of compadres that know the answer enough to avoid that World, maybe we should clue them in...............if the libs got everything they wanted the ultimate end result would be......total and complete...body, mind and spirit.........bondage.

 

[PW2]

Re: liberal utopia

Skinny---<br /><br />Where in the constitution does it say we have inalienable rights granted by our creator?<br /><br />However---I don't think we disagree much, Spud.<br /><br />I agree that if Iraq turns out good it will be good for Bush and vice versa. I'm uncomfortable with the notion that somehow we have the right to impose our system of government on the rest of the world.<br /><br />If it is based on basic human rights, exactly how do we determine where the line is, and what is the criteria we use? The Saudis are not noted for their civil rights, especially as related to women's rights, and yet they seem to be our arm in arm buddies.<br /><br />As far as oil goes, yes indeed there does seem to be enough around, for the short term at least. But it took thousands of years to create the reserves, and we are not creating new reserves. Sometime or other, we have to come up with alternatives. It is inevitable.<br /><br />An argument can be made that we are financing our enemies--Since the oil market is a world market, it simply does not matter where we buy our oil, be it from the Saudis or Canada--the price is what it is, and their revenue is related to the world price of oil.<br /><br />And the longer we depend on oil, and help keep the price up, the longer we finance the repressive regimes, and allow them to operate without the necessary economic and political reforms necessary to compete on the world markets with real products and real industry.<br /><br />As far as ANWR goes, build an argument that it would be good for the Alaskan economy, or native American tribes or whatever or it will help allow Alaska continue to be a tax free state and continue the permanent fund payments--All those are reasonable arguments that may make sense--but to argue that it is part of the strategy to make us less dependent on foreign oil is simply foolish.<br /><br />As far as corporations go, I absolutely agree with you. And as far as that goes, I've heard precious little coming from labor unions that make any rational or economic sense.<br /><br />As far as Rush goes, I do listen to him from time to time, and while it may be entertaining listening to him prattle along about how victimized the right is, it is painfully easy to poke holes in his arguments from a political standpoint. And the other day it was dreadfully painful to listem to him get all confounded and confused in his arguments about GM. At one point he was arguing that Toyota had an unfair advantage because the company did not have to pay health care costs--but of course that is because they have a national health care system that Rush fights so vehemently here...<br /><br />At any rate, keeping it simple and uncomplicated is good radio perhaps, but it doesn't necessarily make good policy or good analysis.<br /><br />That's enough. Got to go make a living with my corporation...

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: liberal utopia

Come on PW, Liberals are supposed to be tolerant, enlightened and understanding. You know, open minded. Did the little tinny cross in the LA seal offend you more than NAMBLA? Does the Ten Commandments in a courthouse offend you more then 6-year olds being sent home with sexually explicit homosexual picture books? Are liberals so insecure and weak minded that the need to be protected from a creche at Christmas?<br /><br />Liberals are the most intolerant people in the world. They are the ones who physically attack speakers they disagree with like Ann Coulter for example. They are the ones who engage in violent demonstrations on a routine basis. They are the ones who do whatever they can to silent speech they disagree with.

 

[PW2]

Re: liberal utopia

Government simply has no business being involved in religion. It has plenty to do making laws that allow society to function. I can pick what religion, if any, I want to follow. I am perfectly capable of that, and I assume you are as well. And I sure don't need some court telling me which is the true god, and which is a false god.<br /><br />As far sexually explicit stuff to six year olds, I don't know what you are referring to, but we have laws against distributing porn to children. I assume those responsible are being charged, if it is what you suggest it is.<br /><br />As far as physically attacking sweet Ann, there are assault laws against that as well. I have no idea what you are referring to, but if they assaulted her, they should be charged, whatever their political affiliation. She may well be an idiot, but being an idiot is not against the law. Perhaps she should contact the ACLU to help her protect her rights to say and write what she thinks, if she needs protection.

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: liberal utopia

These things the ACLU has declared war on, hardly qualify as government religion but you know that.<br /><br />As for the children, I'd just refer you back to my newspaper healines above. The laws don't apply to the government, who are the ones distributing this stuff w/o parental notificaion or consent. <br /><br />Coulter, Kristol and others have been physically and verbally attacked on college campuses on a regular basis. The fact that laws exist misses the point. The point is the mindest and goals of the left in this country. Good try though <br /><br />Let's see what one of our founding fathers though about religion and its place in public life:<br /><br />Washington's Farewell Address 1796<br /><br />Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens. The mere politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connections with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked: Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths which are the instruments of investigation in courts of justice? And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.

 

[OLDSPUD]

Re: liberal utopia

Guys, thanks for your honest feedback, I was hoping that some folks think close to what I think, I was wondering if I, out here in Mormon country was some closed minded wacko. <br />Also, as you guys can well read, I have avoided a lot of caustic comments, but have tried to be on the level. I hope I do walk the walk.<br />You know it is difficult to choose the lesser evil, but I don't know what else to do.<br /><br />Spud

 

[SoulWinner]

Re: liberal utopia

Originally posted by PW2:<br /> I have no idea what you are referring to,

Finally, the truth comes out! JK PlyWoody

 

[Skinnywater]

Re: liberal utopia

Where in the constitution does it say we have inalienable rights granted by our creator?<br />

My typo PW. That should read the Declaration of Independence rather the The Bill of Rights. <br />

The Constitution doesn't attempt to ensure any rights. The Bill of Rights affirms that we have inalienable rights given by our creator.

Convienient way to avoid my point.<br />

If your beloved ACLU wasn't so busy redefineing and subverting it they would be out of a job.<br />With all ground work done by the framers of The Constitution, you'd think the ACLU's work would be a cakewalk. Instead as evidenced, 250 years later great efforts and resources, brilliant and corrupt minds that are a great cancer infecting the soul of The Constitution.

You know it is difficult to choose the lesser evil, but I don't know what else to do.<br />

Spud the answer is simple. Quit being a 'ditto head" and use your own brain. Changing the statis quo takes courage, commitment and sometimes sacrifice. That's the greatest lesson our founders taught.<br />Both political partys are perfectly comfortable being the evils. Vote against that evil.<br /><br />Spud, I've come full circle. A sincere thanks for the exercise.

 

[Skinnywater]

Re: liberal utopia

BTW,Ralph! <br />

Does the Ten Commandments in a courthouse offend you more then 6-year olds being sent home with sexually explicit homosexual picture books?

Truely good stuff Ralph.<br />You ever watch a prize fight where after a knock out. The poor fellow gets help to his feet and the first thing from his mouth is; "He dint hut me!.. he dint hut me!"