leaking classified information on the USA

[ebbtide176]

CIA Fires Employee for Alleged Leak <br /> http://www.yahoo.com/s/296476 <br /><br />we wondered when someone would have the sense to curb this kind of nonsense. thankfully the whistleblowers are learning the difference in newsworthy vs national crisis. we can't have every government secret given out to the masses, otherwise we'd just be emailing excel spreadsheets to all of our enemies, for crying out loud.<br /><br />once again, the MSM is bribing those in the know, with $$$ and its making headlines at the expense of our country's supposedly secret strategies... so much for having a leg to stand on. lets just all go over and give all our secret plans away, hell, lets just give up now and become another third world country. we don't need no steenking government. LOL<br /><br />anyway, i hope everyone here is getting along swimmingly and being the best of friends. i know we all see things along the same lines.

 

[PW2]

Re: leaking classified information on the USA

The real crime is in the establishing of secret prisons in Eastern Europe in order to do whatever they were doing to these people.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: leaking classified information on the USA

well the problem is she must not have had king Georges permission or it would not have been a leak of classified info.<br /> but come on, how long can ya keep a secret higly illegal prison secret in todays global world.<br /> itws rather sad that the US has subk in with communist china,russia,africa,Nazi Germany and a few other countries in the state sponsered secret prisons,gulags or whatever that goes against the very fabric of the flag I love so much.<br /> if they are guilty of something thats why we have courts and prisons,<br /> what secrets could a terrorist have that could somehow damage our security?<br /> maybe embaress some high level govt officials but not mush actual security.<br /> same as some of the detainees at gitmo.<br /> its time to try or release them.<br /> 5 years in detention with no charges nor trials goes against everything america stands for. makes it look like castro is running gitmo.

 

[KaGee]

Re: leaking classified information on the USA

No, the real crime is that we have some people in this country that are more concerned about what methods the current administration uses in protecting our society, than the methods used by those who are out to destroy it.<br /><br />Mary McCarthy worked in the White House during Bill Clinton's terms and was replaced shortly after Bush took office. Surely there is no axe to grind there.

 

[mrbscott19]

Re: leaking classified information on the USA

I love Kagee's logic. If they don't want us to know about it, it must be good for us and the right thing to do! Nevermind the law.....it just gets in the way.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: leaking classified information on the USA

KaGee<br /> I have to digress.<br /> if I actually thought we were getting protected maybe, however its crimminal to lock someone up for 5 years on a suspicion that maybe they may have done something or may do something with no trial by jury, stalin,Pinochet,Hitler, castro and now king george and a long list of others all join the list for the same reason you stated.<br />in the name of "protection".

 

[POINTER94]

Re: leaking classified information on the USA

This woman broke the law. Funny how some would revel in our loss of security if it negatively impacts Bush, forgetting how it negatively impacts our national security and our troops effectiveness and safety. Loose lips sink ships which isn't a big deal unless you are a sailor.<br /><br />Yes, I know you support our troops. What exact law was broken by Bush if the leaks were true? <br /><br />Bush = Hitler or Castro. That didn't take long.

 

[KaGee]

Re: leaking classified information on the USA

Name your point, does not matter. Dark prisons, Gitmo, Abu whatever, Iraq, Iran, ILEAGAL IMMIGRANTS, 9-11! There is a continuous hammering of America, excusing any dubious behavior of the other party. Bankrupt of any serious ideas to make things better, all they do tear America down and look for ways to blame us and GWB in particular. <br /><br />MrScott, last I knew, releasing of America's secrets was a treasonous offense. People are in prison today and have been executed for committing it. <br /><br />But I understand that in your world all things are relative. The "leaking" of a secret is vindicated in light of the "secret" itself. In your minds that is worse, so Mary McCarthy is no longer a traitor, she's a patriot. We can look forward to seeing her now as the next media darling... until the next one shows up.<br /><br />Rodbolt... How soon you forget your own recent rant about the supposed "outing" of Valerie Plame. You were so concerned about all the manpower, money and potential lives wasted by "exposing" her and the "supposed" operations. (I say "supposed" only because Prosecutor Fitzgerald has yet to prove any of this was true.) If these "dark prisons" do exist, where is your same outrage and concerns? Do the same points you ranted about not apply here? Or are your morals relative also??

 

[18rabbit]

Re: leaking classified information on the USA

Originally posted by POINTER94:<br /> This woman broke the law.

Maybe, maybe not. It’s not legal to keep secret or to have someone swear an oath to keep secret those things that are (1) illegal or (2) outside the purview of our structure of gov’t (think: gov’t within a gov’t). #1 is how/why whistleblowers are protected, as they should be. If those in the normal structure of gov’t knew and reported about the illegal prisons then #2 would not apply.<br /><br />She was referred to the DOJ for prosecution, but NOT arrested. Two things come to my mind: (1) the powers that be want to make a show out of the whistleblower but know they don’t meet the test for her having illegally disclosed nat’l secret, and (2) we no longer live in a era where you need to be guilt of a crime to be prosecuted and convicted. Until we know more I can't decide if she broke any laws or not.<br /><br />Lets not overlook the other story in all of this; back when the suggestion of illegal prisons first hit the news, Condoleezza Rice toured Europe publicly assuring the leaders and us there was no such prisons. Clinton was impeached for lying, the least congress could do is fire Rice for lying.<br /><br />The Big Question: why can’t we, the United States of America, do what needs to be done while following the rules? When did we degrade into the necessity of 3rd World tactics?

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: leaking classified information on the USA

Originally posted by mrbscott19:<br /> I love Kagee's logic. If they don't want us to know about it, it must be good for us and the right thing to do! Nevermind the law.....it just gets in the way.

Wouldn't these "secret" prisons be a violation of the Geneva convention?<br />It is criminal to detain & torture a human being, no matter what there perceived crimes are....<br />I'm not a legal expert, so I don't know if she broke the law or not....<br />She might have done the right thing with respect to morality & international law, but she may have violated U.S. law......<br />It will be interesting to see how this one pans out .............JK

 

[POINTER94]

Re: leaking classified information on the USA

The Geneva convention is not a law. It is a treaty.<br /><br />I am sure even though I am not a lawyer that leaking classified information is a crime. Where did anything leaked (illegally) mention torture? That would be a supposition based on a rumor, based on a leak. (I have a friend who worked with someone who's sister in law who worked with a guy who heard..........)<br /><br />Where might I find a lawyer for international law locally? Oh yea, American citizens are governed by United States Law, when in the United States. I am thinking of buying an SUV should I have a lawyer look over the Koyoto treaty to make sure I am not breaking the law? And since Iraq isn't a signer of the Geneva convention we are not obligated to adhere to its tennents. <br /><br />18R if she felt that there was something illegal she has to report it to her supervisor, she chose to illegally leak to the press. I don't know where in the law it says that the press is a remedy for illegal activity. She could have resigned based on the "illegal" activity but chose not to, she didn't contact a member of congress to the best of our knowledge. Dump this information on Richard Durbin and I assure you we would have the military, sitting president and his administration on the front page of Al-Jezzera for a month. Her actions were self-serving and dangerous. You insinuate that Rice is lying about a prison nobody has seen or any proof outside the word of a possible traitor even exist.<br /><br />She might have done the right thing even if it cost American soldiers lives or national security? Morality???? Okey dokey??????

 

[rodbolt]

Re: leaking classified information on the USA

its ok<br /> King geo wont lie nor tolerate leakers or liars. I feel much safer now.

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: leaking classified information on the USA

PUHLEEZ! <br />Oh, I'm sorry, we are in violation of our treaty!<br />Well, that makes it O.K. then, thanks for clearing that up!<br />Why have a secret prison if you ain't gonna do stuff that just ain't right? Or illegal....<br />If you can condone the torture of those being held in these "secret " prisons, well, good for you!<br />I, for one, will not condone my governments actions on this one....<br />She might have done the right thing even if it cost American soldiers lives or national security? Morality???? Okey dokey?????? <br />Your logic is truly something to marvel at, and I think you should take over as "W's" press secretary......<br /> ......JK<br />P.S., gotta leave for work now, those "secret" prisons cost big bux, and I want to do my part

 

[POINTER94]

Re: leaking classified information on the USA

This isn't about President Bush, its about possible leaking of classified information or a full blown fabrication with the result being decreased security for our troops and citizens. Does that make you feel safer?<br /><br />Again, we cannot be in violation of the Geneva convention. It applies to recognized armies not terrorists. Going to work, your tax dollars will go far more towards abortions and welfare programs than secret prisons. Perhaps that will make you feel better.

 

[bootle]

Re: leaking classified information on the USA

It appears that two wrongs have finally made it right, What i'm yet to figure out is why the hell it took so long.

 

[18rabbit]

Re: leaking classified information on the USA

Originally posted by POINTER94:<br /> This isn't about President Bush, its about possible leaking of classified information or a full blown fabrication with the result being decreased security for our troops and citizens. Does that make you feel safer?

There's not much about Bush's actions or policies that makes me feel safe, warm or comfy. That said ...<br /><br />Maybe I can make this clearer; if it is illegal, it can’t be secret. If there were illegal prisons, then the existence of those illegal prisons is NOT a nat’l secret no matter who says otherwise. THAT is law. What I/we don’t know is if the prisons were in fact illegal. It could be they were actually legal (tho I suspect not or why the effort to keep them secret unless the hosting countries were afraid of terrorist’s retribution) in which case this woman is going down on leaking nat’l secrets. She has not been arrested, causes me to believe she may be walking a very narrow line...<br />

Originally posted by POINTER94:<br /><br />Again, we cannot be in violation of the Geneva convention. It applies to recognized armies not terrorists.

I guess, and in the same way we aren't actually at war because congress didn’t declare such a war and we because we don't have a defined enemy ?!?

 

[POINTER94]

Re: leaking classified information on the USA

You are making the assumption that the prisons exist and that they are illegal. Secret prisons don't make them illegal. It makes them secret. We don't publish where we keep spies.... Is the location of our submarines illegal because we don't publish their location and tracking? Are the prisons illegal if the prisons are run and administrered by a foreign power? How does this make it our problem. Terrorists know no boarders, and I have no problem applying their standards to them.<br /><br />Congress in its usual spineless way granted the power to the president to declare war, (political pantiwaists) therefor they have equal culpability, responsibility in the event. But, in doing so, smuggly left themselves a political loophole to hide behind during the election season.

 

[18rabbit]

Re: leaking classified information on the USA

Originally posted by POINTER94:<br /> Congress in its usual spineless way granted the power to the president to declare war, (political pantiwaists) therefor they have equal culpability, responsibility in the event. But, in doing so, smuggly left themselves a political loophole to hide behind during the election season.

Then it is as if it never was. Congress is prohibited from ceding its powers to either the judiciary or the executive office. You may recall when a republican congress voted in the ability for then pres Clinton to line-item veto any bill. The Supreme Court told congress to knock it off, cited the prohibition of congress to cede its authority.<br /><br />IF CONGRESS DID NOT DECLARE WAR, WE ARE NOT AT WAR. Only an idiot would attempt to argue otherwise.<br /><br /><br />Pointer, if the prisons didn’t exist, how can you make the claim this woman leaked any secret about, well, what doesn’t exist?!?<br /> <br /><br /><br />Edit: in the early days of the conflict Ron Paul tried to introduce a bill declaring war. Dan Burton (republican) chastised Paul telling him we no longer live in a time when war needs to be declare. Not sure if Burton was suggestion the world is now safe, i.e. beyond the need of any wars, or if the public has become so passive about our gov’t they know they can pretty much do whatever they want, when they want, without reasonable accountability.

 

[demsvmejm]

Re: leaking classified information on the USA

18R, you beat me to it. If these prisons didn't exist then the CIA agent couldn't have leaked top sectret information. Because if the prisons did not exist, then there was no information to leak, only fiction and fabrication.<br /><br />And it amazes me that when a spy's identity is leaked, and her life is endangered, there is so little cooperation by the white house. But, when a pet project is outed and consequently denied, so much effort is put into punishing the person who leaked the top-secret information of these secret prisons which may or may not have existed.<br /><br />And since I must be incredibly dense, how did the revealing of these secret prisons endanger our national security, or our troops? It's not like she revealed our next great military move, or how to thwart our "security". Or even where these non-existent prisons were.<br /><br />And if we lower ourselves to the same level as those we are fighting, then they have won. How did they win? By destroying our civility, much the same way baby bush has divided our country. <br /><br />How can we rightly expect our enemy to treat our people humanely as prisoners when we don't? If our soldiers were being tortured, you would be the first to complain. But it's ok if we do it because your pet president wants to do it.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: leaking classified information on the USA

well if they do not and never did exist how can ya leak any info about them?<br /> by firing someone for the leak the CIA confirmed their existence.<br /> looks like weuns all got lied to yet again by an ole texas bushwhaker. or is that bush backer ?