just bought my new mercury sea pro (Tohatsu M25) and have a question about timing

55evinrude

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Re: just bought my new mercury sea pro (Tohatsu M25) and have a question about timing

UPDATE: i am at my cottage and i measured the distance between each tie rod end. I measured from the inside of each jam nut on the tie rod and i got 20.5mm (and i had to use a ruler thats all i had sorry).

Also i looked at my prop and it says 9.9x11 does that mean 9.9 diamater and 11 pitch?? Thanks

Nathan
 

Sea Rider

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Re: just bought my new mercury sea pro (Tohatsu M25) and have a question about timing

Nathan, will have new 30 HP horses next week, will check if timing magneto plate/rod distance matches or differs from yours, 9.9 is diameter and number next to it is pitch. Would advice not to change carb gasket or use boat/engine if already done at wot untill you have timing info right. Better be prudent than ruin an entire engine on a week end run.

Happy Boating
 

55evinrude

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Re: just bought my new mercury sea pro (Tohatsu M25) and have a question about timing

ok that would be great thank you so much Sea Rider!

Nathan
 

55evinrude

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Re: just bought my new mercury sea pro (Tohatsu M25) and have a question about timing

ok so I just thought I would put up a few more pics to clarify things! firstly for the 20.5 mm dimension i marked where i measured, and for the space between the tie rod end and the mating surface where i put 1/4" that is a rough estimate of the space between i didn't actually measure that part lol. also on the opposite side of the engine there is another set of linkages do i need to play with these at all?

and one finally question (sorry for all of them) is I am ordering the tiny tach this week and am wondering if when i go to wrap the wire around the spark plug wire do i need to wrap it around both plug wires as it's a 2 cyl? thanks for your help!

Nathan
 

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Sea Rider

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Re: just bought my new mercury sea pro (Tohatsu M25) and have a question about timing

Nathan don't touch anything at engine's back, all are gear lever issues syncs and throttle protection, all factory same as 30 HP. With respect to tach, just wrap 3-4 complete turns of pick up cable on any plug wire, could be at extreme of plug cap or middle plug cable. Have you changed carb gasket yet ?

Happy Boating
 

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55evinrude

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Re: just bought my new mercury sea pro (Tohatsu M25) and have a question about timing

Nathan don't touch anything at engine's back, all are gear lever issues synks and protection, all factor

lol thats what I was thinking so I wont touch that! as for the tach I called the local dealer that has it and it's $57 so i just got it, a little more than i thought but whatever! I noticed you put your tach under the cowl I was thinking of mounting mine on the tiller handle so I can look down to see my rpm's.... are these things water proof? I will pick up the tach this week and install soon and no i have not installed the gasket yet, I have it but I am waiting until i get everything figured out.

I need this tach desperately though as my motor sounds like it's reving to high and a guy in the prop sections calculated it and he thinks around 7000 :eek: is there no rev limiter on these motors??? once i get the tach I can calculate to see which prop i need :)

again thanks Sea Rider!
 

Sea Rider

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Re: just bought my new mercury sea pro (Tohatsu M25) and have a question about timing

Nathan, the posted pic corresponds to a Tohatsu 18 horse which has more upper space available than the 30, by the way, new ones should come out of local customs at any moment to check timing. Once you change gasket and match timing marks could place tach at tiller, go for a wot test and check max wot parameters with you alone. Although tachs are water proof, will be unconfortable, need extreme care while remaining on tiller; besides it's a hot item for passerby fast thieves.

This is a nice place to install tach http://www.pbase.com/locozodiac/image/109764889 and use it for idle rpm adjustment, plug clean/change/oil change & general parts change and preventive maintenance hour meter. Although bit pricy, it's a well invested buck by buck, you'll love it. Sorry, no rev limiters on this portable horse.

Happy Boating
 

55evinrude

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Re: just bought my new mercury sea pro (Tohatsu M25) and have a question about timing

I like the place you pit it in the picture I think thats where I will put mine, I guess once i get the rpm's dialed in I wont need to see the tach as much. this weekend I should have the gasket installed, tach in and hopefully the prop figured out.....this thing is going to have some serious power when im done :) thats kinda crappy about them not having a rev limiter I guess I better take it easy on her untill I get actually rpm's figured out.

Thanks Sea Rider for taking all your time to explain everything I appreciate it greatly

Nathan
 

55evinrude

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Re: just bought my new mercury sea pro (Tohatsu M25) and have a question about timing

Ok so i got the tiny tach today and installed it. It came set to 360 or something but when i started it up the idle was 2300 so i knew that wasnt right so i had to make it 180 and now it is good! Idles at 1200 ish when cold 1000 ish warm and 800 ish in gear so thats good. My wot with just me in the boat it revs to 5800-5900 rpm at 32mph so thats not bad! No i have not installed the gasket lol... go figure. I forgot my 10mm wrench at home so i have to go get one and install the gasket tomorrow and than check my rpms again and top speed. Any lucky checking the new 30hp's yet? Thanks a ton!
 

Sea Rider

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Re: just bought my new mercury sea pro (Tohatsu M25) and have a question about timing

You are at top rpm, no need to change prop, don't forget to change carb gasket, it's important, remember engine is swallowing more fuel at wot, needs more air to compensate. You should have more wot/hole shot punch once gasket is swapped, post whatever difference if any is found, just for the record.

That TT counts near double if set at 360?, good to read works perfect once set to 180?. And definitely 32 MPH is an excellent top speed, once gasket swapped, race against same 25 HP engine/boats, will be the envy...

Happy Boating
 

55evinrude

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Re: just bought my new mercury sea pro (Tohatsu M25) and have a question about timing

Ok gasket is in and the motor is deffenetly better! Runs smoother accelerates better and feels faster. With the same weight as i tested yesturday i got 5850 rpm at wot which is perfect. I did not gps speed yet tho! And yes lol when i first hooked up the tach i knew the 360 degree reading wasnt right so i set it to 180 as it has a single coil with 2 leads that motor i noticed! Thanks sea rider!!
 

55evinrude

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Re: just bought my new mercury sea pro (Tohatsu M25) and have a question about timing

I did a gps and it now goes 35-36MPH with just me in my 16' boat! love how fast she is going. almost time to do the 10 hr service on her :) love this little motor light,compact and fast!
 

55evinrude

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Re: just bought my new mercury sea pro (Tohatsu M25) and have a question about timing

Hey sea rider just wondering if you have had the chance to check the timing on the new tohatsu 30's in comparison to mine? thanks :D

Nathan
 

Sea Rider

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Re: just bought my new mercury sea pro (Tohatsu M25) and have a question about timing

Hola Nathan,

Engines will arrive tomarrow from customs, will unpack one and check, but definitely has 25? timing, tomarrow or day after will send extra fine tuning tips to check along factory timing. By the way, while at 36 MPH at wot, what's your max rpm achieved ? Still under 5850/5900 ?

Happy Boating
 

55evinrude

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Re: just bought my new mercury sea pro (Tohatsu M25) and have a question about timing

Thanks Sea Rider that would be great! and at 36mph i did have the trim set higher actually to high i would get a bit of ventilation at times I believe the rpm's were 6000 or a bit more yes i know a bit high, I believe at this point i need to raise the motor up on the transom and keep the 1 notch lower trim setting. when i have the motor pretty much level the rpm's are 5850.

now another question is right now my motor is not bolted onto the boat as i need to remove it from time to time, if i raise the motor higher up on the transom with shims will that make is so i need to bolt it as the clamps will not hold it good enough. lol actually I just reminded myself i have to attach a rope or chain so if the motor comes loose it isn't going to pop off :eek:

once again thanks!!

Nathan
 

55evinrude

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Re: just bought my new mercury sea pro (Tohatsu M25) and have a question about timing

also just to add to what i said about trim. here's a picture of the trim when it went 36mph (so yes i realize it was to high) it's now set lower but the transom is 20" and the motor is 22" I believe so i need to start shimming I think!
 

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Sea Rider

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Final adjustments

Final adjustments

Nathan,

1-Once boat is well ballanced with one passener up front, trim angle is set to have a perpendicular engine on water, go for a wot spin preferible on flat calm waters, while at perfect plane, sit at transom lower deck, pull your neck and head out transom and visually check water flow where it's passing by with respect to lower tail. That's why you need the man sitting at bow to ballance boat while checking water flow.

If flow is passing over small upper plate will need to lower engine, slightly under upper small plate is the ideal sweet spot , no need to do anything, above AC lower plate will need to lower engine. Will need to place small wooden shims and play a bit with engine heights, and visually inspect each height untill perfect ideal height is matched. Trim should be left where gave you a perpendicular engine, no need to play with it, just ballance, distribute deck weigh upward bow properly and that's all folks!!

2-You can adjust clamps tight by hand and if possible to match both eye clamps facing each other, you can secure engine with a lock ir tie a small rope between eyes to secure motor, if this works well, no need to place extra rope to secure engine as clamps will remain where adjusted and locked.

3-Tohatsu 30 HP definitely comes factory adjusted to 25?, so if you have moved timing from 20? to 25? will need to adjust the following for a perfect carb/magneto timing. Measurements are in mm as shown at bottom pic.

-Place gear lever at forward position, remove cowl.

-Standing up front looking at fuel pump, raise carb pawl fully untill stops, without releasing it, full throttle grip hard enough untill cam meets with white carb roller, you should hear a light bang when parts meet, or move throttle grip back and forward with force to hear that sould, while stopping at that position rotate carb roller with finger, if adjustment is ok, roller must rotate freely. If excesively hard to rotate will ned to adjust stopper A CW a bit untill roller rolls freely. Re adjust locking nut tight.

-Once roller/stopper issue is well set, and without releasing previous position, check magneto timing again, realign if needed to have 25? aligned with both mating surfaces, if with less or more timing, remove black ball joint connector that holds magneto plate and tun round accordingly.

-If you make adjustments without raising carb pawl, just moving throttle grip till the end may find that carb roller most of the time doesn't reach full highest cam hill and definitely will be off some ?, if you raise pawl with finger will confirm what I'm saying, it's a butterfly carb spring tension issue. Will be perfect time to lube 1-2 thick oil drops into every rotaing part between carb and throttle for system to slide much smoother and parts last longer.

-Once done with engine height if needed corrections and re cheking carb/magneto timing adjustments, check max wot rpm, post whatever achieved and how it went.

Happy Boating
 

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55evinrude

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Re: Final adjustments

Re: Final adjustments

Ok so i got the motor sitting at the ideal heigh i believe had to shim the motor just a bit over 3/4 " up and about 1/4" out on the bottom of the motor on the transom to get a perfect trim angle. The only thing is the motor revs a bit to high now :( about 6080 rpm, which brings me to my next question why is the 25 max 6000 rpms and the 30 only 5850?? The only other questions is now that the motor is higher on the transom im scared there isnt enough of the cllamps holding it to the boat....theres only about 1" between the claps and the top of the transom!

Ok so now the timing. I mesured the distance again on the tie rod linkage and i was right it was 20.5 so yours was 19.5 on the 30's is that 1mm going to matter? And for that other linkage in the picture that you got 46 for, i got 45mm for it. Anyways when i lifted the carb paw with my finger and put it to wot in forward i looked at the timing marks again and the 25 Degree mark on the magneto plate it about 2mm ish from the mating surface so it the timing maybe not quite 25?? The magneto plate would have to go more forward towards the cylinder head if that helps.also just to add to all this weather i lift the paw up and give it gas or just give it gas it goes to the same place on the cam and spins ok a little tight but it's at the most extreme part of the cam for sure hope that helps. Thanks again

Nathan
 

55evinrude

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Re: Final adjustments

Re: Final adjustments

alright I am getting ready to shut this thread down lol. I think I have got everything done at this point! I checked the carb paw again and i was wrong it does spin freely(the reason why it didn't or so i though was because my fingers were slipping on the grease on it lol) i will attach a couple pics. as far as im concerned the timing is already 25! let me know what you think. also put a pic of the shims on my transom let me know if the claps are to high up. thanks

Nathan
 

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Sea Rider

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Re: Final adjustments

Re: Final adjustments

Nathan,

Last fine tuning issues, as you are quite knowledgeable on what you're doing...(thumbs up)

1-If you got roller turning freely at high end of throttle cam you are perfect, with respect to timing marks, upper mark should be positioned in middle lower thicker mating surface, not in the thin mating surface line shown at lower middle. Check and readjust if needed.

2-Have you checked visually at wot where is water flow passing under lower tail ? If you happen to have found the sweet height engine position, at a carpentry make a one piece height flat shim same transom width and 10 cm larger than swivel bracket width, center shim & engine properly on transom so engine sits in middle shim, secure with at least 3 large screws screwed on top transom. 1 in middle, 1 to each end side of shim. This tedious work is a must do once if wanting wot cruising perfection with best punch and speed you can take out from that boat/engine combo, then you can boat, drink some cold beers and live happily...

Engine is safe being clamp adjusted a little lower than transom's protuding edge. Will even lock clamps against edge in case engine has come loose without noticing it while speeding. When new wooden shim is installed, if clamps mounts slightly on edge, you could file with a Dremel tool and round that portion so clamps rests evenly flat against transom. If you could turn both eyes to face each other and pass a rope or lock between them much better.

Now that you have a well ballanced and trimed boat it's normal to achieve slight more rpm at wot due to the fact that boat slides much better having more hull surface on water and tail has the least water drag as before. Don't have the tech answer about why 25 revs to 6K and 30 to just 5.85 K, assume having more gas intake and punch could be a safety issue, not stressing the engine more than it has to.

The achieved 6,080 rpm is with the current prop, right. If boating solo just trottle back a bit, with more weight or passengers those numbers will definitely go down. It's not worth investing buying 1+ pitch new prop to lower your rpm to 5.85 K, 1 + pitch should give 200-300 less rpm at wot than current prop with you alone.

Happy Boating
 

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