Johnson 150 Rebuild/Remanufacture Guidance

[Terrapin]

Thanks for your comments regarding my Johnson 150 V6 crossflow. I pulled my boat last weekend. I plan on attempting to break free the key powerhead bolts this weekend. The powerhead was off 17 years ago and I boat in brackish water. I am hoping they break free for me. Any guidance on this is greatly appreciated. I do have and will follow my Johnson Service Manual to identify the key bolts and try to remove.

Can someone let me know where I can purchase an OMC Universal Puller and Lifting Eye (p/n 321537) ? A Lifting Fixture p/n 396748 is also mentioned. Let me know which one I should be purchasing. Thanks!

 

[jbcurt00]

@racerone
@Faztbullet
@Terrapin
Some off topic posts were deleted, and a few replies in response to those posts were also deleted.

I sounds like the remaining posts and replies make sense and are helpful.

Apologies if it doesnt, you all are talking about motors that are all 25-60years newer then my youngest motor.....

 

[Lectro88]

Just take your time and use back and forth to free stuck bolts, good penetrating fluid,
I use a pull bar to gauge how much stress I am putting a on bolt. Impact sometimes works and sometimes they just twist off. I mix the 2.
Sometimes.. a brass drift and hammer on bolt heads gets a little movement started.
A "Little" heat to exterior of thread where able , not the bolt.. expand metal around bolt is objective, and spay liberally with penetrating fluid. let it sit and soak..
Time and patience is your friend when dealing with stuck bolts.
I spent over a week dismantling my block, and it came from salt water.
plan to start my own thread.

 

[Lectro88]

@racerone
@Faztbullet
@Terrapin
Some off topic posts were deleted, and a few replies in response to those posts were also deleted.

I sounds like the remaining posts and replies make sense and are helpful.

Apologies if it doesnt, you all are talking about motors that are all 25-60years newer then my youngest motor.....

@racerone
@Faztbullet
@Terrapin
Some off topic posts were deleted, and a few replies in response to those posts were also deleted.

I sounds like the remaining posts and replies make sense and are helpful.

Apologies if it doesnt, you all are talking about motors that are all 25-60years newer then my youngest motor.....

Thank you Mod.

 

[Terrapin]

Three of the six long exhaust housing to powerhead stainless screws are frozen. I got them to move a little, but I don't like the way it feels. It's hard trying to get PB Blaster penetrant to run uphill 3 or 4 inches to the threaded area. I have been tapping the top of the heads and also tried some CRC freeze off. I ordered some Kroil online. Looking for some suggestions.

 

[racerone]

Drill a wee hole from the side near the top of the bolt.-----That gets penetrating oil in there.------Some of those bolt cavities fill with aluminum oxide and jam the bolt solid.-----Then drill through from the side to cut the bolt !!

 

[Lectro88]

If at all possible turn motor up side down or lay it on it’s side at least.
If you are getting movement and not flexing the bolt, keep pouring the fluid to it while you are moving bolt. If the bolt truly is moving and you get fluid in, you most likely will prevail.
Wishing you the best

 

[Terrapin]

Drill a wee hole from the side near the top of the bolt.-----That gets penetrating oil in there.------Some of those bolt cavities fill with aluminum oxide and jam the bolt solid.-----Then drill through from the side to cut the bolt !!

So if I understand correctly:
1. You are telling me to measure the bolt length (I successfully removed 3), from below the head to the end of the thread. Then from the exhaust housing bolt head surface, measure vertically (the bolt length) and drill a small hole into the powerhead. The goal being to drill a 1/8" hole? to pour penetrant on the end of the bolt (or close to the top). Then soak with penetrant and hope it frees up the frozen thread. Is this what you are suggesting? Is there any concern with a water jacket in this area or anything else I should be aware of when drilling?

2. I don't understand the second comment. I believe you are telling me that if the bolt shank is frozen solid, I should drill through the exhaust housing, close to the powerhead, with the goal being to drill though the stainless bolt.
Please confirm and/or clarify for me.

Should I try mapp gas heat (I don't have oxy acetylene)? If so should I focus the heat on the powerhead area where the threads would be?

Let me know what you would try first and what progression is best. Thanks!

 

[Lectro88]

I would NOT drill the powerhead, The water jacket is all through there.
drilling the bolt at a funky angle is begging to break a bit... especially a tiny bit.
Your machine shop should be able to extract any broken bolts, call and ask.
Mapp torch is fine. I use coleman gas on torch, Don't try to turn red hot. I wouldn't even want to blister finish. Don't quote me on this, just general idea.. 230-250 degrees should start the process. An infared temp gun is nice.
Yes, you are trying to get the BLOCK threads to expand from the heat, The bolt will expand too following enough time and too much heat. Sometimes the process of heat and letting it cool after a few attempts. Its all a risky gamble kinda. but most times, Heat, smacking head of bolt to jar it, and back and forth with good penetrating usually wins out. a long round or square bar 6-12 inches long 3/8" -3/4" in diameter used like a punch but its flat like the hammer surface to strike bolt heads. You can use a long heavy bolt as a Drift. The drift I call it keeps you from hitting undesired objects. and concentrates impact to the bolt and threads. How hard to hit it? Knock $hit out of it.. the drift may fly out of you hands if your not square. (so keep kids away)( wear Safety. glasses) Hit it, spray it, Hit it spray it. keep doing that it helps the fluid travel. 10-20x's let it rest and come back to it.
Again, letting them soak is fine and probably helping the most.
Are you using a pull handle, You can put pretty good force on a 1/2" pull handle. (enough to break off) and enough to budge loose.
I hope this was good information for you.

 

[Terrapin]

I would NOT drill the powerhead, The water jacket is all through there.
drilling the bolt at a funky angle is begging to break a bit... especially a tiny bit.
Your machine shop should be able to extract any broken bolts, call and ask.
Mapp torch is fine. I use coleman gas on torch, Don't try to turn red hot. I wouldn't even want to blister finish. Don't quote me on this, just general idea.. 230-250 degrees should start the process. An infared temp gun is nice.
Again, letting them soak is fine and probably helping the most.
Are you using a pull handle, You can put pretty good force on a 1/2" pull handle. (enough to break off) and enough to budge loose.

Lectro88, Is a breaker bar the same as a "pull handle"? If so, i have been using a 3/8" breaker bar that is approximately 12" long. I have an 18" long 1/2" breaker bar, but I am a bit reluctant to put more torque on the bolt heads.
In addition to more penetrant, I may try a little heat today, but will have to strip more components off the powerhead. The starboard side of the engine is open, but the port side has more electricals and fuel pumps in the way.

 

[Lectro88]

Also, heating with the penetrating can draw fluid in those places needed.
Some may say spraying while hot is quenching. messing with temper or bolt strength. I hope you are not getting hot enough to be doing that.
But again, heat, hitting, spraying, careful torque. time, patience... its not a race. its.... Can I get this out without breaking it.
And sometimes you can't save em all. but a lot times you can.
I have let things soak days and weeks for low priority projects.
penetrating fluid does its best in 12-24 hrs to crawl and seep.
Thats why I say keep spraying, let it soak.
These oxidized bolts can be nasty and it takes time to really get through.
I think I just got lucky on mine.
This is a different level of stuck bolts.
AND I have played with plenty of stuck bolts. But this marine stuff.. stainless in aluminum, with salt water and oxidation,... REALLY steals the cake.
Its a Bear.

 

[Lectro88]

For me...
I don't think the heat really helped me.
But its the go to method for many.
The Aluminum and heat I don't care for.
Aluminum soaks up heat like a sponge. its hard to keep hot as it disapates into the mass or rest of the block. and cools before it expands.
Its a pain to weld or heliarc.. it takes so long to get it hot. work with.
Sounds like the bar is right on.
You seem or sound like you are doing the right things the right way.
Eventually...
you will put enough torque on the bolt and it will budge or break.
the question will be, did the fluid get there or not.
My bolts seemed dry and crusty. I wonder if I let mine soak enough.
Again, did I just get lucky. too.
And I spent a week on mine. really 2 weeks for total disassembly.
.
You will need a 5/16 12pt socket.
I only found deep well at Lowes,$3.98 or $4.98 I do't rem.. for rod bolts and I had to smack those bolts too..
THEY WERE TITE TOO..!

 

[Lectro88]

Lectro88, Is a breaker bar the same as a "pull handle"? If so, i have been using a 3/8" breaker bar that is approximately 12" long. I have an 18" long 1/2" breaker bar, but I am a bit reluctant to put more torque on the bolt heads.
In addition to more penetrant, I may try a little heat today, but will have to strip more components off the powerhead. The starboard side of the engine is open, but the port side has more electricals and fuel pumps in the way.

Yes they are same

 

[Lectro88]

Another thing I did. off topic of stuck bolts.

It will be a month or so for me. and I don't do this daily, so..
Take Pics of everything..! I have 2 other motors I can go look at.
Most aren't that lucky.
Keep your bolts together.
A zip loc bag and a sharpie.. or cans with lids. then box that stuff together.
Carb bolts, flywheel/timing cover bolts, starter bolts, Foot or exhaust bolts, Crank cover bolts. and so on.
IT will save head scratching later.

 

[racerone]

Drilling a wee hole in the adapter just below the power head is the best way to get penetrating oil in there for those long screws !!

 

[Lectro88]

Thats a pretty good idea..
My only counter question to that is do you JB weld that wee hole shut after you get the bolt out.. Because...
To me.. just saying... you are opening a place for water and salt water to get in and oxidize again, with better accessibility this time.
And another thing. drilling too deep is starting a weak spot in the bolt, That is already stuck. and getting stressed. but you have to go deep enough to get to the bolt. thats a catch 22 deal.
and definitely new bolts after they are dinged/drilled.
again good idea, with mixed feelings.

poking fun now.. definition of "wee hole" is 1/16" or micro carb cleaning bits.
something easy to break in process of drilling.

Drilling a wee hole in the adapter just below the power head is the best way to get penetrating oil in there for those long screws !!

 

[racerone]

I have done this work with success.-----Good luck with your project 88

 

[Lectro88]

I have done this work with success.-----Good luck with your project 88

I don’t doubt your ability. (At all)
There are plenty of trade secrets that many of us including myself don’t know about. I certainly don’t know it all and don’t claim it. But glad to lend hand when possible.
Now electrically that’s my world and I can dance with some of the best.
This boat thing is new to me.
And it’s nice to be on a forum where folks will reply and help.
Not going to call any names, but I have posted on forums and nobody replies if you are not in their “Click”
Thank you for the info and good wishes.
I was pleased to find this site.

 

[Terrapin]

So if I understand correctly:
1. You are telling me to measure the bolt length (I successfully removed 3), from below the head to the end of the thread. Then from the exhaust housing bolt head surface, measure vertically (the bolt length) and drill a small hole into the powerhead. The goal being to drill a 1/8" hole? to pour penetrant on the end of the bolt (or close to the top). Then soak with penetrant and hope it frees up the frozen thread. Is this what you are suggesting? Is there any concern with a water jacket in this area or anything else I should be aware of when drilling?

2. I don't understand the second comment. I believe you are telling me that if the bolt shank is frozen solid, I should drill through the exhaust housing, close to the powerhead, with the goal being to drill though the stainless bolt.
Please confirm and/or clarify for me.

Should I try mapp gas heat (I don't have oxy acetylene)? If so should I focus the heat on the powerhead area where the threads would be?

Let me know what you would try first and what progression is best. Thanks!

racerone, I believe you confirmed below that the wee hole would be drilled in the Adapter and close to the powerhead. NOT in the powerhead as I describe in item 1 above. Is my understanding correct?
Secondly, in item 2 above I believe you are telling me that if I am not successful in removing the bolt (it snaps in the area of the shank), I should drill the hole larger in diameter to drill completely through the bolt shank close to the powerhead? Is my understanding correct?
I was successful with heat and penetrant on one of the three frozen bolts, but two of the long bolts snapped approximately 1/4" from the bolt head. Should I try and pull the powerhead without cutting the bolts near the powerhead? Let me know your thoughts based on your experience. I am trying to plan my next steps. Thank you!

 

[Lectro88]

No don't cut the bolts, thats your second chance to get them out once you get the units separated.

you may have enough of the bolt sticking out of the block, once you separate it from the foot. if lucky you can turn block upside down to penetrate/hammer, use vise grips and try again. But Now for sure I'd soak it a day or so. Just me.
you have 4 ? 1/4-20's to go and the 2 - 1/2" bolts for main motor mounts at shifter linkage that tie to steering arm/yoke. 3/4 wrench/socket with universal. to break those loose, and the head will come off.
Straight Up.
there are 2 1/4-20's almost impossible to get to at the motor mounts. Those don't need to come out.. thats wasted effort holding the adapter plate down. I pulled them with much swearing... And didn't need to.
The drive shaft is last thing dialing the 2 together.
Hope this helped.

I JUST did this last week.