I've noticed a trend...

JasonJ

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Re: I've noticed a trend...

Awe C'mon Erik, you were hoping someone like me would help justify your viewpoint. No one is expecting you to roll over for anything. You just are not looking at this objectively, that is my point. You basically sound exactly like what you despise, doesn't that bother you in the least? Your post whined and name called, which is exactly what you accused your enemy of doing, just reflect on that. <br /><br />Sorry I write too long of posts, I just know is takes more than two lines of text to make a point. While I make no appology for my ability to write above a 6th grade level, I'll try to be more brief in the future to fit your attention span.
 

dogsdad

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Re: I've noticed a trend...

Originally posted by 12Footer:<br />
Originally posted by jtexas:<br /> Anyone who does not believe in the infallability of Bush is immediately labelled a Liberal Democrat.
This is straying-off the topic a bunch. But this is such a widely-believed misconception, that i fealt compelled to explain something to you.<br /><br />It may seem to you, that most 'cons like me think that Bush and his admin can do no wrong.<br />This is simply NOT TRUE, as much as it may appear to be upon the face of it. <br />The reason is, that the constant ripping-into Bush causes a rabbid defense that often goes overboard. As his GENUINE flaws are not usually debated. Just the ones on-topic -- a topic usually posted by a lib wishing to rip-into him on the hurricane response, the progress in Iraq (for that matter the war on terror itself)...<br />This seathing rage and hatered from the left, causes a constant barrage of "get Bush any way i can" posts. Things like accusing him of being a dunce, going AWOL from his service duties, taking a vacation in times of dire national emergancy--- all of that garbage...<br />What would you expect from ANY red-blooded American, who very-basically, believes in the guy they voted for??!<br />Otherwise, they would've voted for the traitor, right? <br />But to say most of us think GWB is "infallible", is crazy-talk! After all, GWBush has blown more of my cash on domestic spending than Clinton did. He spent more on welfare and providing for illegal immigrant medical care, than had his predescessor too! Heck, he even spent more than Clinton did on LEVEE-CONSTRUCTION! <br />These, of course, are issues the rank-n-file libs and cons will not vary thier opinion on.So libs offend, us cons DEfend. Plain/simple.<br /><br /><br />No, he is far from the "ideal conservative" in office! He is no Reagan! What he is, however, IS better than the final alternatives we were given to choose from. But just like the dems, we messed-up durring the primaries. You guys should've chosen Lieberman. We should've choosen --- let's just say, "someone more conservative"....But, oh well.<br /><br />This misconception of yours is rampant amoung libs, too! We are barraged by "bush and vacation", "Cheney and haliburton", to the point of hurling! We are left with no other choice but to defend our president to the last breath,if need be! So you get what you see as "marching in lock-step".<br />Wrong.<br />The ONLY things I personally march in lock-step with, is my country, it's popular direction, and the constitution...(you know, the life? liberty? the pursuit with twin yammies thing?).Esspecially, in times of war.<br /><br />
48420719.dentures26gr.jpg
<br /><br /><br />BTW, to bring us back ON-TOPIC .....<br />Another "trait" of the left, is that when they get backed-into a logical corner durring any debate, they'll also sometimes resort to spell-checking and grammar correction of thier opponents, like a third-grade teacher on a student's book report ---- but with a great deal more condescension and vitriol.
The liberal argument seems to always orbit around the pretext that Bush must be either perfect, or he is the devil himself. Why bother? These are just frustrated people who are filled with resentment and cannot accept reality. Why do I want or care to win an argument with someone who displays psychotic behavior?
 

ErikDC

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Re: I've noticed a trend...

LOL! You're cool, Jason! Stop stressing out, life is way too short to hate people that disagree with you. Stand up for your beliefs but don't forget that many of the people that you perceive as enemies might just be some of your best friends. Open your eyes, my friend.
 

jtexas

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Re: I've noticed a trend...

Originally posted by dogsdad:<br /> Why bother? These are just frustrated people who are filled with resentment and cannot accept reality. Why do I want or care to win an argument with someone who displays psychotic behavior?
This is the perfect example of what I'm saying. There are those who, if your opinion differs from theirs, draw conclusions about your emotional and/or mental state.
 

JasonJ

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Re: I've noticed a trend...

I don't hate you bro, I don't hate anyone. I guess I am letting this whole politics frustration thing get to me. I'll appologize and concede that I am helping to keep a fire going that is best left to die. Peace man.
 

JasonJ

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Re: I've noticed a trend...

BTW 12footer, that "Bush stole my dentures" picture has to be the funniest thing I have seen in a long time. :)
 

PW2

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Re: I've noticed a trend...

I know what it is about. I just think these inflamatory labels are intellectually lazy, and are completely spoiling legitimate political debate in this country.<br /><br />The vast majority of people in this country are somewhere in the middle politically, but that somehow does not make for good radio, and that's too bad.<br /><br />The people if they were really on the far right would be saying to the folks in the Gulf "Too bad, so sad--you chose to live there"<br /><br />and I have lived in Ontario Canada under the socialist Bob Ray government, and I will guarantee you socialism doesn't work and is ultimately cruel to its people.<br /><br />Between the two extremes is where the majority is, and should be, and where there is room for civil debate, but again its easier to be intellectually lazy, and simplistic notions make for better radio.<br /><br />I think we are much the worse for it.
 

dogsdad

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Re: I've noticed a trend...

Originally posted by jtexas:<br />
Originally posted by dogsdad:<br /> Why bother? These are just frustrated people who are filled with resentment and cannot accept reality. Why do I want or care to win an argument with someone who displays psychotic behavior?
This is the perfect example of what I'm saying. There are those who, if your opinion differs from theirs, draw conclusions about your emotional and/or mental state.
Don't forget intellect, man. We draw conclusions about your intellect too.<br /><br />BTW, the word "psychosis" simply means a state of being out of touch with, or unable to recognize, reality.<br /><br />And tell us---what is it you say about those who disagree with you??
 

dogsdad

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Re: I've noticed a trend...

Oh---and I forgot one thing: what is it that makes it so important that I win an argument with you?
 

jtexas

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Re: I've noticed a trend...

So we disagree...so...that makes me psychotic? Would you like to tell us how that makes you feel?<br /><br />Can you win an argument with a frustrated, resentful individual who can't accept reality?<br /><br />How do you know if you've won?<br /><br />Why all this emphasis on winning?<br /><br />Why the hostility and aggression? I mean, what's the upside? What do you get out of it?<br /><br />How does it help you, launching personal attacks on those whose opinions differ from yours?<br /><br />I got the insult about my intelligence, by the way; what's up with that? You feel better now?
 

dogsdad

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Re: I've noticed a trend...

What's up with all the "what's up with that" questions? <br /><br />In answer to your questions, no, probably not, when you walk away before the argument occurs, that is only your perception, your presumption only, false premise, false premise, false premise, you take it personally when you shouldn't, and what do you care?<br /><br />_________<br />Hey, I like your signature line. Hints that perhaps you don't take yourself too seriously. Mmmm...a little presumptuous, maybe?
 

jtexas

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Re: I've noticed a trend...

Originally posted by dogsdad:<br /> you take it personally when you shouldn't
...oh...ok...never mind...<br /><br />
radner042802_big.jpg
 

inthesticksnow

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Re: I've noticed a trend...

>>> I know what it is about. I just think these inflamatory labels are intellectually lazy, and are completely spoiling legitimate political debate in this country.<br /><br />Wrong headed… A deflection… Conservatives don’t hide who they are. Liberals do. Labels apply insofar as identifying the otherwise sneaky, slippery types. Labels label, and that’s what you don’t like. The label isn’t inflammatory, the leftist substance which liberalism represents, is, and the label “Liberal” nails it.<br /><br />>>> spoiling legitimate political debate<br /><br />The “spoiling” part is that you are identified, and thus an age old rejected philosophy is identified with one word.
 

inthesticksnow

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Re: I've noticed a trend...

>>> It all reminds me of my divorce. My ex wife thought that if she just yelled louder than me, that made her right.<br /><br />And all this reminds me of how superior and above everyone else moderates think themselves. All those on the right… all those on the left… all so wrongheaded. If everyone could just rise to the that tippy-top of the triangle “^”.
 

Skinnywater

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Re: I've noticed a trend...

All those on the right… all those on the left… all so wrongheaded.
Close, but no cigar.<br />It's a matter of an identity crisis.<br />The Democrat thinks he's progressive. <br />And the Republican thinks he's conservative. <br /><br />At least the Democrat is consistently left leaning.<br />The Republican can be anywhere right of left, but not quite conservative right.
 

ebbtide176

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Re: I've noticed a trend...

hey skinny, i know you ;) from here anyway. you give good food for thought always.<br /><br />i just want to comment on the little clip of middle of the roaders. i agree that many who can feel "idea's" of both sides/midroad may fall under the old "if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything", but then again, everyone is different, and probably no one is hard core lockstep with far right or left.<br /><br />what i'm seeing now, and others posted wanting to separate the forum did also > we're not getting along like we should be. it always starts with someone feeling personally offended. <br /><br />that's the trend here, now. did the major news networks make all this happen? surely it wasn't a war and major hurricane damages... ;)
 

inthesticksnow

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Re: I've noticed a trend...

Originally posted by Skinnywater:<br />
All those on the right… all those on the left… all so wrongheaded.
Close, but no cigar.<br />It's a matter of an identity crisis.<br />The Democrat thinks he's progressive. <br />And the Republican thinks he's conservative. <br /><br />At least the Democrat is consistently left leaning.<br />The Republican can be anywhere right of left, but not quite conservative right.
Well, I’m taking the cigar anyway… the sky is blue and the jack is in the trunk and I haven’t seriously dinged my prop. That answers your point with equal clarity.<br /><br />What about my point re the delusional and often infuriating middle-of-the-road moderate? Right is a philosophy of self-reliance with reward for pulling up one’s bootstraps and producing, Left is a philosophy of dependency and spreading misery “equally” in order to be “fair”. The Right could survive well without the Left. The Left could not survive at all without the Right (for obvious reasons). <br /><br />What is the Moderate? Same as the left insofar as dependence on the producers… the doers. But worse for lack of spine. The Left sponges (as a can’t make it on your own philosophy) from the doers and producers. The Right does what it always does… it does. But the Moderate sponges from both sides in order to claim superiority over both… without the commitment, sacrifice, or work… <br /><br />Rightly or wrongly, there’s some honor for fighting for what one believes in, and both Right and Left can acknowledge that, and complement a fallen bitter enemy for shear determinism. <br /><br />The Moderate lies in wait… the two sides fight it out… and the Moderate does what he does best… ravages the pockets of the dead when it is at last safe to come out of hiding.
 

Skinnywater

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Re: I've noticed a trend...

And all this reminds me of how superior and above everyone else moderates think themselves. All those on the right… all those on the left… all so wrongheaded. If everyone could just rise to the that tippy-top of the triangle “^”.
inthesticksnow,<br />I apologize for my reaction to that previous post. I misunderstood its meaning.<br />After that clarification and your well written subsequent post, may I offer you a light for that cigar?<br />I don't disagree with what you've said about a liberal or conservative. You've nailed it down neat enough.<br />However, one problem with labels is that ultimately there's not enough labels to include everyone. This causes some groups to be placed under labels that they souldn't be placed in.<br /><br />Take that "moderate" label you described. By your own reasonable example of the convictions of the right and left, it fits perfectly with the past Presidential election.<br />The moderate can be fit well into the majority group that never votes or gets involved in political exercise.<br />While undoubtably a substantial amount of that group fit perfectly in your definition of a moderate, a substantial amount would be misunderstood by you.<br />The label that would be used here would be "disinfranchised". This is probably the most rational and aware of all these days.<br />It would be a mistake to say this group is without fierce convictions. Remember, this group would contain people who if asked if they were liberal or conservative, the likely reply would be, "none of your business". This would be the group that voting for "the lessor of two evils" is an insult. This is the group that would objectively endear positive values from all sides and be disgusted by the status-quo.<br />For sure, they would be the hardest of all groups to put into a mold.
 

jtexas

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Re: I've noticed a trend...

inthesticksnow, are you describing anyone whom you can't fit into your neat little categories as a spineless scavenger?
 

JasonJ

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Re: I've noticed a trend...

inthesticksnow, the world does not fall into two neat little categories. The last time I checked I thought I lived in a country where we are free to choose and think how we see fit. Do you really honestly think that I as well as the rest of the veterans and active military sacrificed significant portions of our lives just to be told by someone like you that we are not thinking "correctly"?<br /><br />I will choose and think any way I want to, and that is what threatens people with your mindset. How dare I be an independant thinker instead of a "sheeple" that waits for The Majority to tell me how to think. If I want to be pro abortion and anti welfare at the same time, you'll just have to get over it. No one has been able to influence my belief system for 36 years, and its a safe bet it won't be influenced in the future either. Good luck with your process though...
 
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