Is it prudent to have a kicker?

[cyclops2]

Re: Is it prudent to have a kicker?

Smokie is right.

With no butchering of the Swim Platform. It is a real DIY job by a talented guy to make a LONG spring loaded pipe with connectors.

Or a old fashioned steering cable & pullies connecting the 2.

Cute little can of worms squirming around now.

 

[JEBar]

Re: Is it prudent to have a kicker?

to me having a kicker motor is much like having a spare tire on a vehicle .... hopefully the main motor would never fail and it would be needed to help get your boat back to the dock .... when we are using a boat on local lakes, unless there is a fishing related need, I have never felt the justification for spending a few thousand dollars on a kicker motor .... should we be going to use it off shore (no matter how far), I would consider a second motor as a necessity

Jim

 

[JimS123]

Re: Is it prudent to have a kicker?

Might it be prudent or entirely unnecessary to have a kicker motor under the following conditions?

How often do 3.0 MerCruisers fail anyway?

Why have a spare tire in your car if in all your years of driving you never had a flat?
Why have insurance if you never had an accident?

I also have the radios, SeaTow phone number and BoatUS towing coverage. I see maybe an hour wait for them to show up in my parts. But, by then I can be half way home with my 9.9 on my 19 footer.

My Mercruiser 3.0 failed 3 times in the first year of ownership. I bought it brand new - all were factory defects covered under warranty. Now 28 years later it hasn't failed again. The 9.9 got me home in plenty of time with no muss or fuss.

I troll a lot and wanted the flexibility of a kicker. So, it was a no-brainer for me. I would have one anyway. But knowing what I know now, if I ever stop fishing, I'll have a kicker anyway.

Prudent - yes. Necessity - for me it is.

 

[FastFission]

Re: Is it prudent to have a kicker?

In the area you'll be boating, I don't think I'd want to be without a kicker. Also, I don't know that I'd consider "summer" and "calm weather conditions" something you're likely to find in the bay area. I sailed around the bay for a number of years, and the sea breeze is pretty strong and almost constant. I remember small craft warnings most of the summer. Admittedly, it's probably a bit smoother outside the bay in these conditions and I haven't spent much time offshore myself.

One particular nightmare would be losing an engine windward of the Potato Patch (just north of the golden gate on the seaward side). Even in calm weather, the breakers over that shoal are tremendous. I'd hate to be drifting into 30 foot breakers wondering whether Sea Tow was going to make it there first. I believe there are some shoals to the south as well, but I'm not that familiar with the offshore areas.

With a standard 19' cuddy, you'll want to be careful as to when you try to enter the gate. I've had green water over the bow of a 22 foot sailboat in there in the wrong wind/tide conditions. It can get amazingly rough.

Good Luck

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: Is it prudent to have a kicker?

Nobody has said it yet.

Before spending any money on a second motor, Spend it on a Good Anchor!

That means an anchor large enough and strong enough and with enough rode (Not Mis-Spelled) to hold the boat in place, in waters deeper, and seas worse, than you ever expect to experience.

Staying put is often preferred to moving!
Especially the wrong way!

 

[Oshkosh1]

Re: Is it prudent to have a kicker?

Having navigated ships numerous times into and out of SF Bay into the former Alameda NAS, (Night)Mare Island and Concord... and knowing the harsh tidal current, confused seas and shipping traffic... I don't know why on earth you'd take such a small boat out to sea around there in the first place.

Kicker???

As mentioned before, I'd ensure a suitable anchor, and LOUD horn was onboard instead.

 

[cyclops2]

Re: Is it prudent to have a kicker?

NEVER anchor in a shipping channel !!!!!!!!!!! Those ships CAN NOT avoid you if 2 are passing you in a narrow place.

Fog or night is death. Drift out of the main traffic area. Then anchor. Add current speed + the boat speed....... and you being stopped. Change of navigation crews. Toast.

Anchoring ? I do not know of anyone carrying 300' to 1000' of anchor line to anchor in deeper water in a windy condition.

Maintain the engine / engines far better.

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Is it prudent to have a kicker?

Uncle Willie is right; a properly rigged anchor is your most important safety device (excluding for those who only boat where it is too deep to anchor). of course you don't anchor in a shipping channel even if you could, but you can drop the hook before you drift into it, or when you drift out of it. Perhaps a sea anchor would be a good device for your waters; ask a local.

Second is to know your waters and conditions (as fastfission describes) about what is safe; that is more a function of boat design and captain's skill than anything else, but for some, a radio to seatow is all you need; for others it's not an option. Select the advice that addresses your conditions, not mine or those in between us.

The spare tire analogy is completely misplaced. First, compare the costs. A spare tire is one replacement part, but it covers 4 vulnerable parts, tucked out of the way, for $50, no maintenance or regular use required. A kicker would be analogous to keeping a spare $1200 on board computer in your car, or an alternator. Make sense? maybe if you are crossing the desert but not around town. In fact many new cars don't have spares--to save weight and increase mileage, b/c flats aren't as common as they used to be (don't carry oil and battery water any more either) and so many people call the towing service anyway. So is your boating like crossing the desert, or around town? Pack accordingly.

So the kicker prevented an hour wait for seatow. Even if that happened three times, are the three hours you saved over the years worth the cost of a $2000 motor? My time is valuable but not that much.

Bottom line: if you don't need it for trolling, if you aren't boating where you are the only way home, it's not worth it.

And that statement would not be made any more true by adding a lot of CAPITAL LETTERS and exclamation points!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[FastFission]

Re: Is it prudent to have a kicker?

I do agree on the anchor in general, but a good bit of that area is better than 20 fathoms. Unless you're carrying several hundred feet of rode, you're going to be AWFULLY close to the shore before you have a chance to set an anchor. Also remember that "close to shore" is not necessarily safer. Sea room gives you more time before you go aground, and some of the shoreline in this area is anything but a gentle landing. North to Bodega, it's mostly going to be rocks and cliffs. You're almost always going to have winds from the west, so you're going to be drifting toward shore if you loose the engine.

Another thing to remember is the fog. It's never far offshore in your area, and it can move onshore with very little warning.

I've got a 19 foot Bayliner cuddy now, and I think trying to sail the main bay with anything like it (especially the "Slot" between Angel Island and Alcatraz) would scare the living bejeebers out of me. Withe the huge cockpit and only a couple feet of freeboard aft, one good wave over the stern, and you'd be trying out the floatation the hard way. I'd prefer something with a self bailing cockpit. My old Columbia had a pretty good cockpit drain system, and I can remember really NEEDING it on the main bay. In one case, I was below using the head as we passed under the gate on an outgoing tide, and for a second or two the "unfloodable" dorade vent just above the head was pouring a full stream of COLD water on me. That vent was on top of the cabin a good four feet above the waterline. I'd think you really want a boat designed for open ocean. Most of the cheaper cuddys (Bayliner, Searay, etc) are really designed for sheltered waters.

I'd really recommend you find someone with a good ocean going boat to take you out into the areas you want to boat, to really get a feel for what challenges you'll be facing. There's a magazine called "Latitude 3" that's distributed at most of the marinas in the area (it's also on line), and there are generally quite a few folks looking for crew.

On a positive note, as long as you have the right equipment and the right skills, the Bay Area is absolutely a GREAT area to boat. Again, I can't say I'm an experienced open water sailer, so please take this advice for what it's worth.

 

[bayoucat58]

Re: Is it prudent to have a kicker?

I have to agree with all of these replies. Back in the eighty's i lived in a warehouse on pier 43 i use to Kayak over to Alcatraz some days the current would make it impossible. With that said i carry two sea anchors in my boats and on an incoming tide and the right wind that could keep you out of shipping lanes a maybe even land you close to where you put in to start with. Sea anchors work keep one on board they are under $20.00 and could save your life.

 

[jcminnesota]

Re: Is it prudent to have a kicker?

Hi...I had a 19' Wellcraft 192 Cuddy...with a teak swim platform. I had a simple 90 degree vertical motor mount that I bolted to the swim platform....and I had a light weight 4 hp evinrude with a separate gas tank that I could strap to the swim platform. It worked great. I tightened the steering friction adjustment so it would push forward without holding onto the handle.....and steered with the lower unit when needed. If I was trolling I would loosen up the steering friction and put a handle extension (articulated model from Cabelas) and sit on the rear deck and use the extension to steer the motor. I could get the boat moving at about 4 mph. I never needed the setup for emergency purposes but I knew I could get back to shore if needed. I always boated within a few miles of shore also. I do agree if you are in the ocean and its rough this would be problematic but you could get a light weight more powerful motor, as long as the bracket would handle it. I asked the local mechanic if the swim platform would handle the weight....he said they are designed to handle heavy loads and no problem. If I was you, I would add a kicker. Better safer than sorry.

jc minnesota

 

[bayoucat58]

Re: Is it prudent to have a kicker?

Bayliner ... ever wonder why so many are sold?!!

Because they benefit from the economy of scale.
They make thousands of them all the same.
Little or no Customizing/Options available.
The accessories are not luxury items but basic utility in quality.
They will get you to your destination safely and do what they need to do without all the expensive luxury frills.

With well over 22 million produced, the most popular car model ever made was the Volkswagen Beetle.
It did its job reliably, but it sure wasn't a Caddy!

Bayliner, Proudly the Super Beetle of the Boat World!

Wow really OK, Ford sold 156 million Pintos and no i never did wonder why! And what a great car that was as we all know. So because "economy of scale" No features "Customizing/Options" everyone else had like with the model A ford. And accessories for get about it. What you say is at least they work when you buy it maybe. So you have so much knowledge just how many of the 22 million sold actually made a safe trip from point A to point B...? Without exploding like the Pintos were known to be very safe unless rear ended this is fact.. fact!!!

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Is it prudent to have a kicker?

I'll go in the middle here. I don't think the Pinto analogy fits b/c the criticism of Bayliners is not about a specific safety defect. But neither is it like the Beetle, which in addition to having so many sold, more important, had so many stay on the road for years without falling apart.

So I'd say the Bayliner is the Dodge Dart of the boating world. Take that for what it's worth.

 

[82rude]

Re: Is it prudent to have a kicker?

pinto, approx 2 mil produced ,beetle approx 21.5 mil produced .lots of bugs still around all over the world expecially south america.fact!

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: Is it prudent to have a kicker?

Wow really OK, Ford sold 156 million Pintos and no i never did wonder why! And what a great car that was as we all know. So because "economy of scale" No features "Customizing/Options" everyone else had like with the model A ford. And accessories for get about it. What you say is at least they work when you buy it maybe. So you have so much knowledge just how many of the 22 million sold actually made a safe trip from point A to point B...? Without exploding like the Pintos were known to be very safe unless rear ended this is fact.. fact!!!

I just sold a 1965 VW Beetle earlier this year that I had owned for the last 16 years. It safely made every trip I asked of it.
I would be safe in saying that every one of the 22 million Beetles made a safe trip from point A to point B.

Just over 2 Million Pintos were made over its 10 year life.
The Pinto with less than one fire fatality per 50,000 vehicles sold was "no more fire-prone than other cars of the time" and "its fatality rates were lower than comparably sized imported automobiles" typical of the period.
The pinto's sufferd from Media Hype describing fuel tank "Fires" as "Explosions" more than anything else.
My family owned a 72 Pinto when I first learned to drive.
And I agree with you; "... What a great car that was ...", I wish I still had one!

Every Car, Boat, Aircraft has it weak points.
What is the point you are trying to make?

 

[lncoop]

Re: Is it prudent to have a kicker?

My buddy Chad Julien was the oldest guy in tenth grade and as such was able to drive before most of the rest of us. We terrorized the streets of Jonesboro, Arkansas in his burnt sienna Pinto with the first Beastie Boys cassette (Licensed to Ill for the unenlightened) blaring from a jambox in the back. Somehow we managed to drive it the wrong way on the busiest four lane in town one Friday night and live to tell about it. We mounted our escape by jumping an eight inch high median. How we accomplished that without completely eviscerating that little car is beyond me. Following that misadventure my girlfriend, who was sitting in my lap in the front seat at the time, refused to roll with us in the Brown Hornet any more. The Brown Hornet did not have a kicker.

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: Is it prudent to have a kicker?

... How we accomplished that without completely eviscerating that little car is beyond me...

.... And a Good Time was had by ALL!

It didn't have a Kicker; It WAS a Kicker!

"... What a great car that was ..."

 

[JimS123]

Re: Is it prudent to have a kicker?

Well, this thread about kickers is killed for sure, but nevertheless, the happy banter is welcomed anyway.

My buddies and I would never have even considered a Pinto. Crap fords for sure. Or a Vega for that matter. We did have a few Corvairs in the group - you know they weren't as bad a Ralphie said they were.

Beetles - well that's another story. Its a hippiemobile for sure, but if you got more than 5 years out of one you were blessed. We had 2 in the family and my fondest memories are towing them home in the snow. They sure didn't last in a northern snowy salty climate. The last one we had needed a flat tire fixed so we could drive it to the dealer as a trade-in. I located the jack and fondly remember seeing the running board and both fenders going up but the tire (and axle) staying firmly put on the ground. Gotta love Grandpa's old scissors jack!!! And the duct tape keeping the fenders glued on for the last ride.

Good memories though. Brought my first whitetail deer home in the trunk (hood). And got my first (humm) deer in the back seat.

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Is it prudent to have a kicker?

...his burnt sienna Pinto with the first Beastie Boys cassette...
How we accomplished that without completely eviscerating that little car is beyond me. ....
The Brown Hornet did not have a kicker.

Burnt Sienna. I bet Ford regretted using that name for brown....

because the Lord looks out for fools and drunkards. It explains how most of us survived (and some still do) what the ER doctors call "testosterone poisoning."

Kicker? sure it did--four teenagers to push it to the gas station!

As for the comment about Beetles not lasting, true it was the body that was the weak spot, especially in the road salt areas.

 

[JEBar]

Re: Is it prudent to have a kicker?

for folks who choose to run smaller boats in congested waters having a contingency pan for main motor failure makes sense to me .... having an anchor system capable of holding their boat is most certainly worth a strong consideration .... if they want to move their disabled boat back to any given point, having a kicker is worth a strong consideration .... I'd want to be able to control where the boat is going and have little interest in sitting anchored while I hope for the best ..... that said, I see no reason why it would have to come down to choosing between the two options, if at all possible I'd go for having both

Jim