I'm lost with no real clue

[gear79]

Hello all, I am new here, I have been trolling the boards for some time lurking, learning, reading countless threads and such in order to educate myself to know what I have gotten myself into. Typical story here, purchased a used 85 Wellcraft Elite 180 off CL. The seller was a motivated seller and took my low ball offer. Long story short, it has issues, rot is the biggest issue. I have since gutted the deck down to the stringers, also rotted. Before I truly dig myself into the land where I am uncertain, I'd like to identify what drivetrain I have. I have read and searched but nothing really tells me what I am asking. The engine is a Mercruiser 170 4 cyl engine, (I assume a 2.5L??), my real question is, what is the drive upper and lower? It says Mercruiser and has this number as DRIVE UNIT A311895 and on the transom plate says A353089. I have pictures on my phone but it is not compatible in a mobile version to upload. Any help will be appreciated here to guide me, then all the fun can begin.

 

[Don S]

Re: I'm lost with no real clue

The engine is a Mercruiser 170 4 cyl engine, (I assume a 2.5L??),

Not a 2.5, it's 3.7 aka a 470. The A311895 is the serial number for the engine, not the drive. The other is for the transom shield, still no help for which drive.

Go to the link below, and there are links to the ID for your drive.
http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=329915

 

[gear79]

Re: I'm lost with no real clue

Thanks for the reply and link, I have seen that link but the work PC will not allow any downloads of files. I'll have to transfer my phone pix to home PC so I can begin uploading and will post tonight hopefully.

 

[Don S]

Re: I'm lost with no real clue

If the drive is original, it should be an MR model.

 

[gear79]

Re: I'm lost with no real clue

I downloaded the link to my phone, but the file is not supported and too large. There was from whatI recall, matching numbers on the block tag where is said drive unit and the back tag on the plate of the drive outside. be patient with me, I am willing to learn all I can. I have vast knowledge of engines and repair and rebuild. I work on cars for a living/career and have tools, but no specialty boating tools. I'll have to wait another 8 more hours to download at home and hopefully upload my pix.

 

[fishrdan]

Re: I'm lost with no real clue

Do you know if the engine and drive are running without issues? If no, I would verify that the engine and drive are in working condition before dumping a bunch of cash and hard work into the hull rebuild. (Something I learned from my friends misfortune...)

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: I'm lost with no real clue

Not a 2.5, it's 3.7 aka a 470...[/url]

So what you have is a JUNK boat with a "Problematic" engine. You are right to see what the drive is, cause it's the only thing you have that's worth a penny. Sorry dude, you made a BAD purchase all the way around.

 

[gear79]

Re: I'm lost with no real clue

Do you know if the engine and drive are running without issues? If no, I would verify that the engine and drive are in working condition before dumping a bunch of cash and hard work into the hull rebuild. (Something I learned from my friends misfortune...)

Yes, engine fired right up, let it run for maybe 3-4 minutes up the RPM band, engauged the prop and tilt, all worked. It was noisy, I am sure there are internal issues in the drive. I did run it................ dry, I didn't know I had to run water through it. The block was empty of water too, so I filled that and found the front cover leaking, no biggie. I am waiting for my flusher muffs to come in so I can test that. I have mentally prepared myself for a rebuild anyway, but my doubts continually tell me to get of ouf it. I have taken on many large tasks and always doubt myself but the end product always shines in the end.

 

[gear79]

Re: I'm lost with no real clue

So what you have is a JUNK boat with a "Problematic" engine. You are right to see what the drive is, cause it's the only thing you have that's worth a penny. Sorry dude, you made a BAD purchase all the way around.

I guess its how one looks at it, I admit, I am a noob to all of this, not gonna lie about it. Live and learn, but I am willing to learn from this as well as, how i'll fix it. I'm this far in, so I may as well continue. Just wish I could upload off my phone for pix.

 

[Fishermark]

Re: I'm lost with no real clue

Do some search here for the 470 engines. They have quite a few unique qualities that make them a challenge to work on and rebuild well. Especially since you have run it without water.

While you are at it, especially since you are this deep into it, be sure to check the transom for rot as well. If the floor and stringers are rotten, you can bet the transom is as well.

 

[matt167]

Re: I'm lost with no real clue

Running it dry didn't help, but it will only burn up the raw water impeller in your case, given the 470 runs a heat exhanger for the engine..

That said, a 470 with problems, will only get more problematic, and part availability is slowly going away. When you say the block was empty, and that it was leaking from the front cover, I bet it ran hot, and the motor started knocking ( you say it's noisy ), then the boat sat because it had a bad engine and the deck and stringers rotted.. The engine can be swapped with a 3.0L/140 but you need to determin if the boat is worth that to you.. Or figure out how much repairing the 470 will cost to get it seaworthy again. It's a unique to Mercruiser engine, uses a 460 Ford cylinder head but has a standard Chevy bell pattern. they were marketed to Ford Racing Performance Parts in the 1980's but it never took off, and soon after, Merc discontinued them anyway.

Cranks, cams and timing chains are NLA from Merc as far as I know, rods and pistons are stock Ford 460 parts. Basically 1/2 460 Ford with the appropriate crank

 

[gear79]

Re: I'm lost with no real clue

The front cover seems to be a very minor leak, not like gushing out water, the noise I heard was from the outside, and I just assumed it was due to no water inside the drive. The engine sounds normal as far as it idling and running up rpm's, I didn't run it for any longer then 4 minutes. The hull is in great shape with minor cosmetics and trim work needed. I am perpared to continue at a slow pace, but guidance is welcomed, I have read enough to know that I am in for a long bumpy road.

 

[Maclin]

Re: I'm lost with no real clue

Not having water in the drive will not make it noisy. Not having any OIL in the drive will make it noisy. Also running it with the drive all the way up at above idle speeds will soon make noisy u-joints that will need to be replaced.

 

[gear79]

Re: I'm lost with no real clue

Not having water in the drive will not make it noisy. Not having any OIL in the drive will make it noisy. Also running it with the drive all the way up at above idle speeds will soon make noisy u-joints that will need to be replaced.

That makes more sense to me, I will double check the fluid levels on the drive, I know the engine has oil and water.

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: I'm lost with no real clue

Running it dry didn't help, but it will only burn up the raw water impeller in your case, given the 470 runs a heat exhanger for the engine...

Matt, read his post again, the heat exchanger and block were also DRY. The coolant is leaking at the front of the engine. So he's got that known issue too, which isn't as minor as he thinks. And he's run it with no water. Wanna bet the headgasket didn't like that too much?

Sorry Gear, you have every problem that the 470 could have, and every problem a boat could have. It's most likely ALL junk.

 

[gear79]

Re: I'm lost with no real clue

Well, guess I'll listen to my conscience and get rid of it, list it as a "project boat", at least it has brand new and working trailer lights now.....

 

[Bondo]

Re: I'm lost with no real clue

Well, guess I'll listen to my conscience and get rid of it, list it as a "project boat", at least it has brand new and working trailer lights now.....

Ayuh,.... Welcome Aboard,... So sorry to read yer story,... Do a search here for Merc 470, 'n do some readin',...

You'll find the learnin' curve yer lookin' at makes Mt. Everest look like a toe-stubber at the mall....

You also should spend some time in the Restoration forum here at iboats,...

I'm guessin' you've only found part of the hull's Rot at this time...

Partin' it out will bring a higher return than a project boat, but it takes the Time to do it...

 

[gear79]

Re: I'm lost with no real clue

Ayuh,.... Welcome Aboard,... So sorry to read yer story,... Do a search here for Merc 470, 'n do some readin',...

You'll find the learnin' curve yer lookin' at makes Mt. Everest look like a toe-stubber at the mall....

You also should spend some time in the Restoration forum here at iboats,...

I'm guessin' you've only found part of the hull's Rot at this time...

Partin' it out will bring a higher return than a project boat, but it takes the Time to do it...

I have been reading for some time now, but was looking at the wrong section, I didn't know the engine was a 470, instead I kept searching 170, with that being said, I am now horrified of the stories on these engines. I was fully prepared to glass in new stringers and transom repair, but now this was the icing on the cake. I already re-listed back on CL, hopefully, I can get rid of this "project" soon. I will be constanlty looking and had I known then what I know now, I would have never even made contact with this seller nor boat lol.

 

[matt167]

Re: I'm lost with no real clue

Matt, read his post again, the heat exchanger and block were also DRY. The coolant is leaking at the front of the engine. So he's got that known issue too, which isn't as minor as he thinks. And he's run it with no water. Wanna bet the headgasket didn't like that too much?

Sorry Gear, you have every problem that the 470 could have, and every problem a boat could have. It's most likely ALL junk.

From what I had gathered, he put water in it but found it leaking when he started it on muffs. In any case you would be right. I bet the PO ran it, developed a leak and ran dry. getting it nice and hot. let the boat sit uncovered until gear79 bought it... Exact same leak happened to my dads 488. got hot, so we kept putting lake water in it, to get it back to the dock. fixed the leak with a new WP but the HG was blown. Replaced the HG and then it developed a rod knock.

 

[matt167]

Re: I'm lost with no real clue

I have been reading for some time now, but was looking at the wrong section, I didn't know the engine was a 470, instead I kept searching 170, with that being said, I am now horrified of the stories on these engines. I was fully prepared to glass in new stringers and transom repair, but now this was the icing on the cake. I already re-listed back on CL, hopefully, I can get rid of this "project" soon. I will be constanlty looking and had I known then what I know now, I would have never even made contact with this seller nor boat lol.

3.0L/140hp is almost a drop in replacement as the outdrives are the same. 1 stringer needs added. If the boat is what you want in a boat, you could find a 3.0L/140 fairly cheap and have an engine you only have to worry about winterizing correctly so you don't crack the block. The sounds of the boat, the transom needs attention so the engine has to come out anyway.