I have a dream! -- Update #1

[Boomyal]

The subject of creating drainage under newly renovated floors has been bandied about, numerous times, in this forum. To my knowledge, no one has come up with an adequate way to accomplish that goal, short of using ping pong balls or empty soda bottles, neither of which accomodates the structural benefits of foam.<br /><br />Here's my dream:<br /><br />Lay a 3/4"-1" dissolving 'rope' along the bottom of the inside of the hull, making appropriate cutouts through any lateral bulkheads. In each bay, lay (glue) the the 'rope', in several places, from the floor level, down the inside of the hull, to join the longitudinal rope. Once done, pour the foam over them. Now there would be a network of passages to pass any water on thru to the bilge before the closed cell foam was forced to absorb it.<br /><br />Dissolving rope you say? Is he crazy? (Ya'll already know that) <br /><br />Today, you can buy packaging 'peanuts' that are made from baking soda. I believe they are extruded then cut into pieces. The sole purpose of these 'peanuts' is to be biodegradeable. Within seconds of being exposed to water they literally dissolve into a non-toxic solution. Voila, no more styrofoam in the land fills.<br /><br />If any of this material can be obtained before they are cut into 'peanuts' I believe a solution to drainage has been found. <br /><br />I will pursue this and report what I find.

 

[SS66]

Re: I have a dream! -- Update #1

Sounds good!

 

[SS66]

Re: I have a dream! -- Update #1

That gave me an idea. Why not use regular rope? Just have it sticking out of the bilge hole... pull it right through when the foam dries?

 

[12Footer]

Re: I have a dream! -- Update #1

Or take a stick of normal, cheap, 1/2" PCV pipe with a bunch of holes drilled into it (sorta like a mirco-version of the drainfield pipe that is used in septic tank systems,and Kerry-drains).<br />Just thinking out loud here.<br />Buyt the desolving rope idea sounds really worth persuing too. Just don't let Contender Boats know about it first... ooops.

 

[phatmanmike]

Re: I have a dream! -- Update #1

pvc.. make a drain...hmmm.....

 

[gewf631]

Re: I have a dream! -- Update #1

Disolving packaging peanuts are made of corn starch (I believe).<br /><br />If you're looking for something to dissolve in water, use plain-old bread (without the crust). Use it all the time for sweating soldering joints when plumbing copper pipe. It absorbs water long enough to get heat on the joint, yet dissolves into nothing.<br /><br />French bread is already the right shape!

 

[Boomyal]

Re: I have a dream! -- Update #1

Originally posted by Ed F:<br />Disolving packaging peanuts are made of corn starch (I believe).<br /><br />If you're looking for something to dissolve in water, use plain-old bread (without the crust). Use it all the time for sweating soldering joints when plumbing copper pipe. It absorbs water long enough to get heat on the joint, yet dissolves into nothing.<br /><br />French bread is already the right shape!

Ed F, you are correct regarding the base material for bio-degradable packing peanuts. They are made of expanded corn starch. I have a telephone number for a manufacturer and will give them a call re; uncut extruded rope.<br /><br />The problem with using bread is one of volume. You would have to have enough water, under pressure to flush the bread out of the voids. Expanded corn starch has very little volume and when wetted contracts into virtually a liquid. Therefore it would be easily flushed out of the voids.<br /><br />For others, the problem with pvc drainage pipe, is that the foam would actually dam the holes and prevent water from entering it.<br /><br />SS66, I thought about using rope, as you suggested, but I really feel that the foam would grab it so tightly as to keep you from pulling it out. Also it would not lend itself to making lateral passages down the sides of the hull to a bottom longitudinal passage way.

 

[johnnybigrigger]

Re: I have a dream! -- Update #1

Another option…you can lay a strip of 5-8” wide, 1/2 inch encapsulated plywood on a 45 to the center stringer for an opening (front to rear leaving the rear 12-18” open). The strip can be glassed to both the stringer, and hull leaving small un-glassed spaces in each area for drainage. This makes a nice sized opening, and allows for future hose/lines to be passed through unobstructed. Plus, this gives the attaching point of the center stringer a wider footprint on the hull.<br /><br />My $0.02<br />@-@<br />JBR

 

[suzuki115]

Re: I have a dream! -- Update #1

How about coating the rope with vasoline, motoroil or whatever does not stick to foam? Sticking problem is solved and well lubricated to pull it through.

 

[SS66]

Re: I have a dream! -- Update #1

I would think that tightly braided nylon rope wouldnt be too hard to pull out. Especially if lubed as one other person suggested. Since Im a poor fellow, I just may give the rope idea a try when the time comes. Whatever you decide to do, keep us posted

 

[JasonJ]

Re: I have a dream! -- Update #1

PVC with holes and nylon screen material over it to keep the foam from going into the holes would be the way I would do it. The foam in its liquid state is a bit thick and a small enough mesh screen should hold it for the few seconds it takes to start expanding. As it stands, I left my center bilge open, and have limber holes along each stringer. Drainage should never be a problem for me.

 

[voxmorgan]

Re: I have a dream! -- Update #1

I like your idea about the biodegradable rope, but if you have trouble coming up with that you might want to think about trying one of the following:<br />1. Try using something like a collapsible garden hose or bicycle inner tubes. Cut them to length seal one end, fill them up with water or air, Seal the other end, glue or Duct tape them in place like you would have the rope, cover them with some type of releasing agent, Spray foam, allow it to cure, and then unseal one end they will deflate which will allow you to pull them out. <br />2. I don’t recommend this one, but a friend thought of it and I have to give credit for the ingenuity. Using a large bare copper wire taped in place, spray foam, allow it to cure, and then apply a current to the wire heating it up and pulling it free. Can’t say this would be a recommended process especially on an aluminum boat.<br />3. Use several small pieces of rope bound together in a fairly tight bundle making the bundle the approximate size of hole you desire. Glue or tape it in place, cover them with a releasing agent, spray the foam, allow it to cure, and then start pulling out one strand at a time until they are all removed. Picture it like a piece of twisted insulated copper wire where they use several smaller strands to make up a larger gauge wire. If you remove one strand of wire out of it the others practically fall out. Ok, ok you still have to pull, but I think you get my idea… Good luck and remember “originality is the ability to conceal the source”

 

[Boomyal]

Re: I have a dream! -- Update #1

voxmorgan, thanks for your input. The good new is that I just spoke to a manufacturer of the disolving peanuts. He confirmed that they start out as a continuous extruded rope. He is sending me a twenty foot sample. That will give me the opportunity to see how it reacts to various glues and or solvents that may be present in two part foam.<br /><br />I'll keep you all informed.

 

[BF]

Re: I have a dream! -- Update #1

I liked the "regular rope" idea. You could leave a hunk sticking out of the bilge and another in the front. That way you could "floss" you bilge every night! The next generation of bilge hygiene! <br /><br />Brent

 

[sbump26]

Re: I have a dream! -- Update #1

Back in 1979 we made some fiberglass helicopter parts for Sikorsky that had a foam material laid up over to form stiffening "passages". We would totally enclose them with fiberglass material, send it through the autoclave for cure, then drill small holes into the stiffeners and used MEK or acetone to "melt" them out. Using wet layup would do the same. Cut the foam with a draft, lay up over it, let the resin cure and then use a solvent to melt them out. Then apply the foam over the hollow stiffeners/passages.

 

[gt1000]

Re: I have a dream! -- Update #1

1. Ask the Misses.<br /><br />What about whipped corn-starch, sugar, flour, gelatin or some other substance from the pantry that will dry hard, is water soluble, and can be apply with a pastry filler or caulk gun?<br /><br />2. Chemical Burn<br />What about laying small strips of styro-foam and the melting them out with acetone?

 

[gt1000]

Re: I have a dream! -- Update #1

SUGAR CUBES!!<br /><br />JUST LICK AND STICK EM.<br /><br />LOL.

 

[gt1000]

Re: I have a dream! -- Update #1

Cherios on a String?

 

[SS66]

Re: I have a dream! -- Update #1

Hmmmmmmmmm dry ice?