I cant get this throttle set up properly. Please advise.

timmyjane

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Does the timer base have a spring or something that is supposed to pull it back to the idle position or is the return strictly in the throttle cable? I ask because when the cables are disconnected the arm will stay where it is and only the slightest amount of force is necessary to put it back at the idle stop. I haven’t checked the schematics yet. My guess is no and that the return is throttle cable driven.
 

jimmbo

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May 24, 2004
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Strictly controlled by the Linkage, and eventually by the Cable. Forget the Cable for now. Disconnect it. You have to get the Motor set up properly again. And since you messed with pretty much every adjustment, it will take a complete Link and Sync. The correct Service manual would certainly come in handy.
Do you have the Pickup Timing Spec?
 

timmyjane

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Strictly controlled by the Linkage, and eventually by the Cable. Forget the Cable for now. Disconnect it. You have to get the Motor set up properly again. And since you messed with pretty much every adjustment, it will take a complete Link and Sync. The correct Service manual would certainly come in handy.
Do you have the Pickup Timing Spec?
It is 5°. I have it set at 5°.

I have gone through the procedures listed in the thread I linked to a few posts up several times.

-Essentially disconnected all cables.
-Ensured top and bottom carbs were closed and tied together.
-Set pickup timing to 5°.
-Idle is approx 700 in gear and 1100 out of gear.
-Roller is set to cam. Roller is set into perfect center alignment with the top scribe on the cam.
-Using a movement accentuating tool, ie. brake cleaner straw clipped to throttle cam, made sure that the butterflies were closed at idle and only started opening just after the cam started moving.
-WOT timing is set to 24° which is -4° below the book spec of 28°. The timing was set by pushing the timer base up against the stop screw and adjusting the screw as necessary to achieve 24° while spinning the motor over with the starter. This method, known on the forums as the Joe Reeves Method, stipulates timing to be set 4° below the book spec.
-With everything at idle setting the cable was then adjusted to slide over the stud. Minor adjustments were then made to the cable barrel to make sure the system was returned to true idle after shifting forward to full throttle and back to the middle.

I feel like I’ve gone over the link and sync procedure pretty completely and I have gone through it several times. I even made minor changes to the Spark Carb Plastic Linkage to see how that affected the full assembly. Where the scribe hit vs roller vs butterfly positions vs cable adjustment, etc.. After deciding on what I believe to be the best position went back through the full link and sync as I understand it to be.

Is there anything else that I am skipping? Anything specifically that you think I should check?

I am beginning to wonder if there is a small incompatibility with this throttle box and the 78 Johnson. I am under the impression that the 78 was kind of an oddball year where they were making changes to the engine design. I saw that cables even changed at this year. We now have old style and new style cables and 78 is the pivot year. I am using the new style cables. The old style use a clamp instead of pre installed ends.

I’m just stating things based on what I understand to be true so you know the information I am operating on. I am by no means an expert in the outboard world. If I have something mixed up please let me know.

Is there a service manual that would be recommended?

Thanks for all the help and continued advice.
 
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jimmbo

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brodmann

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You say pickup timing is 5 degrees. Is that BTDC or ATDC? Idle timing on most outboards is actually After Top Dead Center. That would be 10 degrees difference in the travel of the timing base and throttle movement. Maybe that's the issue.
 

jimmbo

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That is not the Idle Timing, that is Pickup timing. These Outboards Do Not have an Idle Timing Spec
 

ct1762@gmail.com

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one thing i didn't see discussed is to properly make sure the idle stop screw stays put, is to do like the OEM manual says: shift to FORWARD DETENT and half back to neutral (still in FWD, right?) pull firmly on throttle cable, adjusting thumbwheel as needed and seat into trunnion. shift neutral then forward and back to test your work. should NOT move the idle stop screw at all. another thing that bothered me in the comments: if it wont idle with anything but the stop screw jammed all the way in, thats usually a sign of a larger issue. hopefully not, but often its running lean or an issue with cylinder/piston skirt condition. also possible its only running on 3 cyl. these seem to be quite happy on only 3, and to someone that hasnt run many or any of these V4's, very hard to tell the difference by ear.
 

timmyjane

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You say pickup timing is 5 degrees. Is that BTDC or ATDC? Idle timing on most outboards is actually After Top Dead Center. That would be 10 degrees difference in the travel of the timing base and throttle movement. Maybe that's the issue.
The book calls for BTDC. The flywheel only has numbers on one side of TDC. The timing is set based on the 5° on the flywheel.
 

timmyjane

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one thing i didn't see discussed is to properly make sure the idle stop screw stays put, is to do like the OEM manual says: shift to FORWARD DETENT and half back to neutral (still in FWD, right?) pull firmly on throttle cable, adjusting thumbwheel as needed and seat into trunnion. shift neutral then forward and back to test your work. should NOT move the idle stop screw at all. another thing that bothered me in the comments: if it wont idle with anything but the stop screw jammed all the way in, thats usually a sign of a larger issue. hopefully not, but often its running lean or an issue with cylinder/piston skirt condition. also possible its only running on 3 cyl. these seem to be quite happy on only 3, and to someone that hasnt run many or any of these V4's, very hard to tell the difference by ear.
The idle screw itself is not moving. Is the trunnion the part made into the air intake cover that holds the cable adjustment barrel?
What is your suggestion on how to make sure she’s running on all 4 cylinders and to check the piston skirt condition?
 

ct1762@gmail.com

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The idle screw itself is not moving. Is the trunnion the part made into the air intake cover that holds the cable adjustment barrel?
What is your suggestion on how to make sure she’s running on all 4 cylinders and to check the piston skirt condition?
oh my mistake i thought i read you had the idle stop screw turned all the way in? if your talking about the thumbwheel (making the throttle cable as long as it will go at idle), thats not right either. obviously at WOT the WOT stop screw need to be adjusted to make sure throttle plates are 90degrees exactly. running on all 4 is easy: just pull each plug wire and observe. they should all drop rpm equally and change the sound of the motor to a sort of "ticking" or tapping sound when running on just 3.
 

timmyjane

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oh my mistake i thought i read you had the idle stop screw turned all the way in? if your talking about the thumbwheel (making the throttle cable as long as it will go at idle), thats not right either. obviously at WOT the WOT stop screw need to be adjusted to make sure throttle plates are 90degrees exactly. running on all 4 is easy: just pull each plug wire and observe. they should all drop rpm equally and change the sound of the motor to a sort of "ticking" or tapping sound when running on just 3.
You read correctly. The idle stop screw is almost all the way in. A few threads are left on the head side of the screw.
I’ll run her up and pull the plug wires and see what we got.
 

timmyjane

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I had to leave for work before I was able to test for a dead cylinder. I’ll get a chance to work on it again in a few weeks. It makes sense that something isn’t quite right internally that would cause the other adjustments to be so extended(?).
 

ct1762@gmail.com

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I had to leave for work before I was able to test for a dead cylinder. I’ll get a chance to work on it again in a few weeks. It makes sense that something isn’t quite right internally that would cause the other adjustments to be so extended(?).
perhaps. only way to know is to borescope each or better yet pull the heads.
 
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