I am puzzled.

[theriver]

Re: I am puzzled.

dtherrien - I think you know the answer. God is a concept created by man. Creationism is as well. The bible was merely written my normal earthlings. Man also came up with concepts like heaven and h3ll, Santa, the Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy, you get the picture.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: I am puzzled.

Originally posted by theriver:<br /> dtherrien - I think you know the answer. God is a concept created by man. Creationism is as well. The bible was merely written my normal earthlings. Man also came up with concepts like heaven and h3ll, Santa, the Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy, you get the picture.

This post would have been incomplete without your input theriver. We can all go to dinner now. Opps, wait. We haven't heard from Rolmops yet.

 

[rolmops]

Re: I am puzzled.

Originally posted by rolmops:<br /> Good morning on this beautiful Sunday.A great day to look out and greet our Creator.<br />MrbScot I am afraid that last night I met your FSM and so impressed was I by His presence that I ate Him.I am truly sorry if I caused any of you pastafarians any pain. <br />Now for my good friend Boom. <br />Please be patient with all of Darwin's followers.Not all of them have evolved at the same speed as darwin would like us to think.Specially the brain functioning at the level of rational and critical thought is a good example of partial development.Add to that the capability (or lack thereof)of independent observation of the universe around us,and it becomes clear why not everybody on these forums has evolved to the point where they can see what you already know to be true. <br />Peace brother.

Oops, the post did not evolve since early this morning.There is one thing here that needs to be added.Boom,how about all the ultra right wing conservative secular believers in evolution.How will you condemn them? Or will you just accept that they were mislead by left wing traitors in their midst?

 

[QC]

Re: I am puzzled.

theriver,<br /><br />Equating the Tooth Fairy to God during a serious thread about our origins just doesn't seem quite right to me . . .

 

[theriver]

Re: I am puzzled.

Was the Easter Bunny OK though?

 

[QC]

Re: I am puzzled.

I swapped the Tooth Fairy for the Easter Bunny when I realized there is a connection to this thread from the Bunny . . .

 

[theriver]

Re: I am puzzled.

I guess I just side with science. Its generally accepted that Earth and our solar system is well over 4 Billion years old. That's 2 Million times older than Christianity. Something to think about when contemplating creation vs. evolution. I also don't think religion belongs in politics at all. But unfortunately that isn't so.

 

[QC]

Re: I am puzzled.

We were not talking about religion, we were talking about creation and evolution and the tweaking of slogans or titles to fit ones agenda. I don't see them as the same thing.<br /><br />I agree on the earth's age thing. I have no idea why that invalidates Christianity OR a creator. Seems like a non-sequitur to me.

 

[LubeDude]

Re: I am puzzled.

Hey Boomer, Im pro-choice, I choose life, on the other hand they choose-----------????????? Whats that word they really dont want to say? Dosent it start eith a D?<br /><br />OK, Someone mentioned it!

 

[theriver]

Re: I am puzzled.

Quietcat-Boom brought up the "Liberals" the "Left" and "Abortion" into this topic during his initial post.

 

[jtexas]

Re: I am puzzled.

Originally posted by Boomyal:<br /> A big battle has been brewing about the exclusion of Creation as an explanation for all of the wonders that exist in our world. For many years the 'theory of evolution' has been crowding out any possibility that our world has been constructed by the hand of God.<br /><br />As of late the believers have taken a page from the tactics of the Left/non believers and coined the new term of 'intelligent design' to soften the Creation theory and allow the """"Diversity""" of 'beliefs' to get the point across that we and our surroundings did not simply emerge from the ooze of the cosmos.<br /><br />Why is it then that the liberal term of 'pro choice' is okay for the left to explain the killing and murder of conceived life, but the term 'intelligent design' is now a diabolic plot from the far right to force 'religion' down the throats of our now secular population?

boomyal,<br />You appear to separate us into the godless heathens on "the Left", and the pious Godly saints on "the Right". I feel compelled to point out a few things:<br /><br />"The Left" is chock full of believers. <br /><br />There are lots of believers, Left and Right, who believe that science should be taught in science class, and that theology and philosophy should be taught in theology and philosophy classes.<br /><br />The term "pro-choice" gets every bit as much criticism as the term "intelligent design."<br /><br />There are plenty of believers who disagree with your opinions about "choice".

 

[Boomyal]

Re: I am puzzled.

jtexas, we've been down this road before. We are not talking about Reps and Dems of old here.<br />Of course there are exceptions to every rule but it is undeniable, today, that there is a great rift developing, specifically over the last 15 years, between conservatives and liberals when it comes to 'believing' and all that that entails. The Bible is also undeniably conservative by nature. It is not a 'living document as some try to make it.<br /> <br />By the way,'believers' are not 'Godly Saints', they are just saved, in accordance with the teaching of the Bible.

 

[jtexas]

Re: I am puzzled.

yeah, I was exagerating a bit (sorry)...it's just, I didn't see an undeniable correlation between conservative/liberal politics and Christian/non-Christian beliefs - lots of people on both political sides at my church. Unless you're refering to the extremes...I can see the rift developing there.<br /><br />Interesting to refer to the Bible as conservative...Jesus was quite the liberal - posed such a threat to the political establishment that he was executed for it.

 

[QC]

Re: I am puzzled.

I would say that the Bible is conservative TODAY. The political spectrum has shifted left, not the document to the right . . .

 

[NMplayer]

Re: I am puzzled.

Inteeligent design theory in a nutshell basically says that the smallest simplest form of life is too complicated to think that it evolved. In other words, there is a point in which a living simple organism has to have all of its parts or it is not alive. This small one celled organism could not have waited on the parts it needs to be alive or it would not be functional or living. Therefore, it must have been designed<br /><br />Evolutionary theory basically says that conditions in a primordial ooze were perfect for amino acids to come together to form the DNA that contained the instructions neccessary for the first cell. All of the building blocks necessary for the formation of that cell were there and present by chance.<br /><br />I'm not sure it takes any more faith to believe one than it does the other. However, the real reason that these views are argued so vehmently is not scientific (except maybe the actual scientists?) on either side of the debate. The argument is primarily philisophical.<br /><br />If you believe that we were created or designed, then it is not hard to come up with where morality and responsibility may come from. Several religions do that for us. Christian for, example believe that there is a wrong and right and that they should do what they can to "impose" that on others<br /><br />If you believe that it happened by chance, then humanistic and relativism type views are more likely. A person might get the idea that morality is a choice and it should fit the individual. This camp cannot stand to have anything "imposed" on them because no one can really say what wrong and right is.<br /><br />This is a gross oversimplification. I understand that there are people who espouse parts of both views. However, each group at its core views the the other in these terms, thus the debate.

 

[QC]

Re: I am puzzled.

Great post NM! I believe simplification is a good thing . . .

 

[matthews_jim]

Re: I am puzzled.

Albert Einstein put it best: "Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind."

 

[NMplayer]

Re: I am puzzled.

Thanks guys. The trouble I have with both view points is that they each act like their ideas are from a pure source and motive.<br /><br />I actually like the creation science approach for its honesty. Creation science makes no bones about what it it says and why it says it and who is saying it.<br /><br />Intelligent design folks pretend to make no presuppositions about who actually did the creating.<br /><br />Evolution followers look at science as the most pure thing that ever existed (aka another religion) They cant posiibly believe that scientists, or the folks that fund them might have world views or motives that can change what they choose to research and what their findings are.

 

[KRS]

Re: I am puzzled.

Faith and Science do not cohabitate. Faith is a belief in the unseen. Science is a study based upon facts and proven theories... no faith is needed or exerted in the study.<br /><br />I don't believe it takes any faith to not believe something (in a creator).

 

[QC]

Re: I am puzzled.

Originally posted by azfyrfyter63:<br /> I don't believe it takes any faith to not believe something (in a creator).

I disagree. It takes faith that something can come out of nothing . . .