Hybrid Vehicles

[dolluper]

Seems ignorance is bliss when it comes to hybrid vehicles.
Hybrids burn GAS and generate power to the traction battery by braking and a combination of its own MG1 and MG2 generators with particle gas motor operation.. It self charges its self you never plug it in using such valuable power from the grid. A normal (as example only) normal gas motor at 100 hp add the hybrid Gen motor ends up close to 200 hp with twice the fuel economy of that same 100 hp gas motor.
Hybrids make sense full electric plug in vehicles in my opinion don"t make sense.
There is a reason they scraped them in the late 1800's and brought them back later in 1900's scraped them. many times and here we go again ...Probably because there are more stupid people around now that are easy to lead with new bells and whistles gimmicks

 

[airshot]

Hybrid vs full electric is apples and oranges. You’re not using grid power with a hybrid. It uses a small battery pack and operates the engine with a generator as needed. Remove the battery, and now you have locomotive technology.. range extended electric is different as they can use grid power or operate as a hybrid.

Yes, hybrids are far better, however....the batteries are still very environment unfriendly to produce ! Lithium is very costly to mine and it takes large fuel guzzling heavy machinery to get it and even more fossil fuels to process it.

 

[matt167]

Yes, hybrids are far better, however....the batteries are still very environment unfriendly to produce ! Lithium is very costly to mine and it takes large fuel guzzling heavy machinery to get it and even more fossil fuels to process it.

Yup. But you realize that the 18650 or similar cells that make up most lithium ion batteries are the same one used in vehicles. Your cell phone, laptop. Even your kids RC cars.. hybrid batteries are substantially smaller than an EV

 

[stresspoint]

its not ignorance its more the point that i and many others know there needs to be a better way to to address transportation in our future before too much more damage is done , not only by the large corporations making us believe how good these renewable energy vehicles are now and will be in the future its the stupidity / ignorance of the consumer ..

while i agree that the hybrids are a better option to full EV they still need battery's and the many non recyclable components of these vehicles will still need to be disposed of when something better comes along in our ever changing world ,
i too like many others ,have concerns about the :
expensive and damaging results of mining lithium .
the plastics used to build the battery's and for the many solar panels being built that will be nesecery to keep all the EVs on the road when more and more people are brain washed to the battery vehicles as time goes on.

these EV will indirectly become a more of an environment cost than the already established petrol and diesel vehicles already on the roads world wide .
the more battery vehicle are being promoted , the cost of fuel is being exasperated to run these internal combustion vehicles more and more as time goes on will will make a need for more and more petrol and diesel vehicles will need to be disposed of. along with the soon to be antiquated EV s of this generation.

lets not forget :
deposal of the solar panels as they age and become inefficient .
all oil used to make the carbon fiber blades for wind generators ,
the pristine environments that are being destroyed to build wind farms ( another issue when it comes to so called clean energy) the expense to the environment to build and maintain the machinery that is required to make all the clean energy a possibility , the polymer disposal from all the depleted batteries no matter what they were used for and the damage all of the for now stuff is going to affect our off spring .

large automotive corporations are destroying the planet for the profits now..

it may seem ii am waffling on a bit but i am sure you get the point /s..

to sum up , ""ignorance is bliss "".

 

[KJM]

its not ignorance its more the point that i and many others know there needs to be a better way to to address transportation in our future before too much more damage is done , not only by the large corporations making us believe how good these renewable energy vehicles are now and will be in the future its the stupidity / ignorance of the consumer ..

while i agree that the hybrids are a better option to full EV they still need battery's and the many non recyclable components of these vehicles will still need to be disposed of when something better comes along in our ever changing world ,
i too like many others ,have concerns about the :
expensive and damaging results of mining lithium .
the plastics used to build the battery's and for the many solar panels being built that will be nesecery to keep all the EVs on the road when more and more people are brain washed to the battery vehicles as time goes on.

these EV will indirectly become a more of an environment cost than the already established petrol and diesel vehicles already on the roads world wide .
the more battery vehicle are being promoted , the cost of fuel is being exasperated to run these internal combustion vehicles more and more as time goes on will will make a need for more and more petrol and diesel vehicles will need to be disposed of. along with the soon to be antiquated EV s of this generation.

lets not forget :
deposal of the solar panels as they age and become inefficient .
all oil used to make the carbon fiber blades for wind generators ,
the pristine environments that are being destroyed to build wind farms ( another issue when it comes to so called clean energy) the expense to the environment to build and maintain the machinery that is required to make all the clean energy a possibility , the polymer disposal from all the depleted batteries no matter what they were used for and the damage all of the for now stuff is going to affect our off spring .

large automotive corporations are destroying the planet for the profits now..

it may seem ii am waffling on a bit but i am sure you get the point /s..

to sum up , ""ignorance is bliss "".

There are pro's and con's to both types of cars. I'm sure the environmental scientists have looked at the total CO2 cost of both EV's and ICE vehicles and I'd be surprised if ICE wins. Personally I think there will soon be ICE vehicles that run on ammonia. That seems like the most promising direction to me, but I'm no expert!

 

[stresspoint]

There are pro's and con's to both types of cars. I'm sure the environmental scientists have looked at the total CO2 cost of both EV's and ICE vehicles and I'd be surprised if ICE wins. Personally I think there will soon be ICE vehicles that run on ammonia. That seems like the most promising direction to me, but I'm no expert!

good in theory , however ,ammonia is also expensive to the environment to produce , the good about it is that it is an abundant bi product of many things used today,
while the tree huggers are running with their hands in the are about green house gasses ammonia will never become a primary fuel source.

natural gas is the next closest thing to clean burning fuel , but it has its limitations as primary fuel source for transportation if this were to come in the future ,one of the advantages with natural gas is heavy vehicles can run just fine with it ,
the problem if it was used as a primary fuel would be natural gas rescores dwindle on the planet and we would not be able to heat homes etc , some countries also use it to generate electricity as a back up.
LPG would not be viable as it is a bi product of the oil refineries, it is not very efficient either in an internal combustion motor but it gets the job done . .

contradictory in some respects to what i posted before , i would like to see for the time being while most people are still reliant on petrol or diesel for vehicle transportation ,
an interim solution of a LPG powered hybrid would be a better path for development than the full EV , this could easily be a solution for the next 20 or 30 years ,, yes , they do have the need for a lithium battery but very efficient as opposed to that of a full EV .
however the greedy corporation's would neve let that happen and make it unviable for the average Joe to run or buy the vehicle in the first place..

 

[KJM]

good in theory , however ,ammonia is also expensive to the environment to produce , the good about it is that it is an abundant bi product of many things used today,
while the tree huggers are running with their hands in the are about green house gasses ammonia will never become a primary fuel source.

natural gas is the next closest thing to clean burning fuel , but it has its limitations as primary fuel source for transportation if this were to come in the future ,one of the advantages with natural gas is heavy vehicles can run just fine with it ,
the problem if it was used as a primary fuel would be natural gas rescores dwindle on the planet and we would not be able to heat homes etc , some countries also use it to generate electricity as a back up.
LPG would not be viable as it is a bi product of the oil refineries, it is not very efficient either in an internal combustion motor but it gets the job done . .

i would like to see for the time being while most people are still reliant on petrol or diesel for vehicle transportation ,
an interim solution of a LPG powered hybrid would be a better path for development than the full EV , this could easily be a solution for the next 20 or 30 years ,, yes , they do have the need for a lithium battery but very efficient as opposed to that of a full EV .
however the greedy corporation's would neve let that happen and make it unviable for the average Joe to run or buy the vehicle in the first place..

There is a big project here where I live that is just getting all the permits in place that proposes to produce ammonium from wind energy. It would use some power from the grid when wind isn't sufficient (rare around here). The grid here is mostly hydro so the environmental factor isn't much.

 

[stresspoint]

There are pro's and con's to both types of cars. I'm sure the environmental scientists have looked at the total CO2 cost of both EV's and ICE vehicles and I'd be surprised if ICE wins. Personally I think there will soon be ICE vehicles that run on ammonia. That seems like the most promising direction to me, but I'm no expert!

ha ha that's funny , EVs are a long way further in the cost to the environment as a whole than a modern internal combustion motor.
have you ever seen a lithium mine , all the machinery it takes for one to operate , plus the wide spread damage to the natural environment to name a few points that make EVs abad option for the future of the planet.

and like i said in the post earlier , those things are toxic when the catch fire and they do that all the time .

 

[stresspoint]

There is a big project here where I live that is just getting all the permits in place that proposes to produce ammonium from wind energy. It would use some power from the grid when wind isn't sufficient (rare around here). The grid here is mostly hydro so the environmental factor isn't much.

i hope you are moving well away form the area.
guessing that stuff would be more or just as volatile than hydrogen.
not to for get the bi products that need to be turned to steam and exhausted into the local environment .
guessing also that it will be used mostly to power industry not as a fuel source tor transportation.
found this on the internet.
Some chemical/physical properties of ammonia are:

• At room temperature, ammonia is a colorless, highly irritating gas with a pungent, suffocating odor.
• In pure form, it is known as anhydrous ammonia and is hygroscopic (readily absorbs moisture).
• Ammonia has alkaline properties and is corrosive.
• Ammonia gas dissolves easily in water to form ammonium hydroxide, a caustic solution and weak base.
• Ammonia gas is easily compressed and forms a clear liquid under pressure.
• Ammonia is usually shipped as a compressed liquid in steel containers.
• Ammonia is not highly flammable, but containers of ammonia may explode when exposed to high heat.

 

[airshot]

It is all politics being pushed by gov't to create more jobs and spend more money. Round here permits for windmills are very expensive, while permits for solar are much cheaper even though they take up far more land space. It just shows how much the local gov't is supporting the three very large solar panel plants in the area !!! Some friends live in an area where they have some big windmill mfgr plants and there the windmill permits are far cheaper than solar panel permits !! All politics folks, just trying to bleed us dry of our money....

 

[stresspoint]

at least back in the old days they treated us like mushrooms and just went ahead and did stuff that damaged the environment, , these days they simply use whatever media platform they choose to brain wash the general public into believing they are doing this (no mention of damage ) all for a better future.
"" building for a better tomorrow"" as they tell us around here when they trash a native untouched environment to build a wind farm or open a lithium mine .

without being political i will use the word ""THEY""" ,they don't seem to recognize or care how much damage they are doing to the environment today to do that building for a better tomorrow.

agreed its all about lining pockets of large corporations and local powers that be.

sorry OP for letting this post get off track.

 

[racerone]

Electric vehicles are going to need a lot of power.----Many countries might dam up the rivers for generation of power.----But a 100 years from now do we need cheap electric power or fish to eat ??

 

[stresspoint]

Electric vehicles are going to need a lot of power.----Many countries might dam up the rivers for generation of power.----But a 100 years from now do we need cheap electric power or fish to eat ??

exactly , people that own EVs that set up for home charging should look at the utility bill before and after the EV set up , these "" clean vehicles "" use loads of fossil fuels in some areas to keep them running /charged up ,
""think along the lines of as much energy as it takes to run an average household for a day or more ""
other areas they utilize the very expensive to the environment wind and solar systems.
and as you posted racerone, it wont be long before the powers that be will be damming up rivers creating ever lasting ecological problems..

another thing to take into account ,the factory's. that make these EV things are fully automated "" very few humans keep the manufacturing process going"" , this automation consumes mega watts of power daily "" remember that its all there so these things can save the environment from being ruined ( sarcasm )..

its not just the EVs that will need the power to keep them running ,
when we as a fast expanding human race rely more and more on gadgets that continually consume power , we are going to see more and more natural environments destroyed to a point that they cant be re generated to be able to keep up with these needs.

i am sure the powers that be have this all sorted though LMaO.

 

[racerone]

I worked in a large generating station.-----Fact----Most folks including politicians have little to no understanding of VOLTS / WATTS / AMPERES / POWER and how much it takes to keep these batteries charged.

 

[dolluper]

All the points that have been brought up are very valid against full blown electric vehicles.
The point is we have hybrid vehicles now that are actually helping the environment by reducing the use of fossil fuels..
They don't use ANY power from the electrical grid to charge massive batteries as full blown electric vehicles
There is no need to change anything for the running of hybrid vehicles except the minds of politicians and the public
Hybrids have a positive affect on the environment saving fuel for future generations.

 

[racerone]

Well I think that hybrids are charged from the grid.----Then when battery runs low the engine starts to generate expensive electric power to get you home.----When you get home you charge the battery from the grid.

 

[JASinIL2006]

Well I think that hybrids are charged from the grid.----Then when battery runs low the engine starts to generate expensive electric power to get you home.----When you get home you charge the battery from the grid.

I don't think that's generally how hybrids work. I think they charge through regenerative braking and by using excess electricity from the alternator while the engine is running.

 

[Scott06]

Well I think that hybrids are charged from the grid.----Then when battery runs low the engine starts to generate expensive electric power to get you home.----When you get home you charge the battery from the grid.

Yes and No -There are plug in hybrids that can go a very limited range on the battery only - examples of this chevy volt, toyota has been making pluig in hybrids for a while. Toyota Rav 4 plug in I think is called prime. Has like 40 miles of range before the gas engine makes the power. I think the idea is to get the daily commute covered. These have a much smaller battery than a full EV hence doesn't take as many amps to charge

Like anything else there are several different designs. Most hybrids like two I have owned use a gas engine to provide the electrical power. Typically in this scenario the gas engine is smaller than the sum of the electric motors driving the wheels. Allows for more efficient and smaller gas engine to charge the battery but peak acceleration is provided electrically.

One big thing not mentioned in this thread is the regenerative breaking. Not only does this allow energy recovery but also makes your breaks last a long time.

 

[racerone]

No such thing as excess electricity or free electricity.-----But I have heard of a mine in Europe where electric mining trucks generate electricity for the batteries on the way down a mountain.----So much so that there is no need to charge batteries from the grid for the trip back up the mountain when empty.

 

[dolluper]

Well l did talk about regenerative braking that charges the traction battery. Granted there are plug in hybrids which some people think that is all there is
This is where the education should be changed as a great amount of hybrids are self charging by means of regenerative braking the gas engine and the Mg1 and Mg2 parts of the electric motor transmission. MG1 charges the 12 volt accessory battery where the MG2 charges the traction battery 208 volts when required. These vehicles shut off at traffic lights when stopped. When you leave the lights the vehicle is running on the electric motor till a determined speed then the gas motor also kicks in providing power from both.
I would say everyone who has never driven one should
Not the plug in ones Just the regular gas and electric hybrids.