Hull aluminum thickness and outboard bracket question

[KellyC]

Re: Hull aluminum thickness and outboard bracket question

My Islander is 22 ft with a 4 banger in it. Do not yet know if it even runs, was going to try a compression test this last weekend but things came up and was not able to work on it. Just tossing around thoughts about what to do and how spendy it will be.

 

[Pugetsound]

Re: Hull aluminum thickness and outboard bracket question

would think a OB between 150 and 200 would be all you would need as well as a decent kicker of a 9.9 or 15 hp. Should be a s fast as you want to go . unless you have a oil well of your own to draw from . For both of you. ED

 

[jasoutside]

Re: Hull aluminum thickness and outboard bracket question

I am shooting for 200 hp, but would settle for 150 hp.

Wow, your 18 footer would fly with a 200 on the back! Dunno how fast but man it would be fast!

I think a 200 would be really nice on your 22 footer Kelly C. Shoot, a 150 would be about the equivalent of my 4.3 V6 that is going in my boat. Most all of these old 22 footers came with the 120/140 IO back in the day. That would prolly be about the equivalent of a 100 hp OB really.

But with the bracket and a larger more modern outboard with oil injection, I gain the speed I want, floor space, a swim platform, loose most of the old outboard nuisances and if I manage to balance the boat better, bonus.

I really agree with this stuff here. In many cases it seems like the standard OB setup actually takes up more room in the boat than an IO does with their great big splash wells. Put the OB motor out of the boat on a bracket, nice big swim platform, lots o space in the boat, none of that IO maintenance headache stuff. Man, if you have the cheddar ($$$) to do it, go for it!

 

[Starcraft Enterprise]

Re: Hull aluminum thickness and outboard bracket question

In many cases it seems like the standard OB setup actually takes up more room in the boat than an IO does with their great big splash wells.

I can remember as a kid my sister and me actually riding on each side of the splash wells in the idle zones.
Between loosing the I/O engine cover and not having the splash well, it will be the equivalent of moving up the next size in length.

 

[KellyC]

Re: Hull aluminum thickness and outboard bracket question

If I do go the OB route, I was thinking instead of 150 or 200 about twin 100's or so. Like the idea of having something to limp back on if one engine takes a crap or something. I know it would not make a difference if it was fuel problem though. I would also get a kicker, in fact a friend of mine that owes me some $ may have a 25 horse that he will give me. Just need to see if it runnable or not, think that would be a cool little kicker for my boat.

 

[barato]

Re: Hull aluminum thickness and outboard bracket question

SCE, i hope you do it and post pix (for those of us who can't afford the 2d mortgage for a modern OB ). i think GLG is dead on as far as getting a bracket that incorporates a flotation chamber.....4 stroke OBs are HEAVY....otherwise, you've just put the biggest mass in your boat on a long lever arm waaaay aft of your "center of flotation" (for want of a better term).

i'll be curious to see how close to the I/O you can come costwise, as you're right, it really would be like a 2' bigger boat (another way to rationalize the expenditure )

Kelly, with a GOOD reliable 25hp kicker, you won't need twins....they will just up your fuel costs massively and create 2x the maint expenses and things to possibly go wrong. check out this article:

http://www.transpeninsularoutfitters.com/articles-pages/boating/articles-boating-twinvsingle.html

 

[Starcraft Enterprise]

Re: Hull aluminum thickness and outboard bracket question

If I do go the OB route, I was thinking instead of 150 or 200 about twin 100's or so. Like the idea of having something to limp back on if one engine takes a crap or something. I know it would not make a difference if it was fuel problem though. I would also get a kicker, in fact a friend of mine that owes me some $ may have a 25 horse that he will give me. Just need to see if it runnable or not, think that would be a cool little kicker for my boat.

25 hp might be too big. At idle it might push the boat too fast and trying to idle it slow enough all the time might foul plugs. If it is new enough, you might be able to use a dedicated tank with 100:1 mix in it and a trolling plate over the prop to slow it down.
I tried a 12 hp as a kicker on mine and it trolled too fast at idle. My current Johnson kicker is a 15 hp power head with a 9.9 carburator on it for smoother idle and less plug fouling running the 100:1 mixture.
I use my kicker to limp home. I snapped my lower unit drive shaft labor day weekend when I nailed the throttle while the prop was sitting aground along the beach in the Gulf of Mexico. I added oil to mix and used my kicker to limp us about 5 miles home from the Gulf, through the pass and all the way through the bay in Labor day boating traffic.

 

[LastDollar]

Re: Hull aluminum thickness and outboard bracket question

I can remember as a kid my sister and me actually riding on each side of the splash wells in the idle zones.
Between loosing the I/O engine cover and not having the splash well, it will be the equivalent of moving up the next size in length.

Just thought you might like to know the length of my deep well 1962 22? Suncheif. The deep well is 33? on the outside measurement front to back. (Can't get use to Navy talk USA my self) Underneath I have a 25-gallon gas tank, battery, several anchors, the O/S can of fuel and the trusty ? bailing bucket?.

Don?t know if that will help, I know that most I/O?s have a short rear deck. More than once I was glad to have the deep well out in steep water.

 

[jasoutside]

Re: Hull aluminum thickness and outboard bracket question

Yah, I am with my bottom feeding bro there on twin OB's even though they would be super cool!

SE, man you have some good rationalizing going on there! Love it! Bracket is a great cure for the 2 footitus!

Between SE and Kelly and havingfun I am looking forward to seeing you guys make this OB on a bracket thing happen!

(course here I am trying to spent your money guys, sorry)

Either way, have fun!!

 

[Huron Angler]

Re: Hull aluminum thickness and outboard bracket question

A 25hp kicker would be some pretty good peace of mind for limping back to port. The only downside is when trolling it would cost a bit more than running a 9.9 or smaller.

I love being able to put around with my 5.5hp Johnson for pennies on the dollar compared to idling with my 80hp Merc.

 

[GLG fishing]

Re: Hull aluminum thickness and outboard bracket question

I have kicked around the idea of cutting my I/O transom up and sticking a long shaft (25inch) outboard on it. I would fab up a splash well on the small side to still give me deck space and somewhere to clean fish while out on the water. On my 18-foot boat I would think a motor of 115 to 130 would be a good HP to weight ratio. In a pinch a modern 90HP might do the trick as well. I use an 8HP kicker that has proven to be the perfect motor for trolling for salmon. I have a top speed of 5 ? 6 mph to take me home if the main breaks down. I like the idea of having the main and the kicker on the same transom, as the tie bar could be located on the front of the two motors. That way you would not have to disconnect the tie bar and the two motors could be raised independent of each other. I have also looked at modifying the cutty to move it forward a foot to help with the center of gravity. If you compare the driver position with a holiday model you will find that the holiday?s driver position is more forward than the cutty model. Another option would be to sell this boat and look for a 18-foot Islander with an outboard and restore it. Modify the gunnels like Jas has done and use that.

I fish on the saltwater and my needs may be way different than those that fish in fresh water and smaller lakes. It?s all about having the right gear for the type of fishing you do.

GLG

 

[KellyC]

Re: Hull aluminum thickness and outboard bracket question

Well I am just kicking around the idea right now, the admiral is kind of trying to do a blockade on me. So we will see how things go. The only reason I was thinking of the 25 kicker is because it is a freebe. Hard to turn down something like that that is free for the taking. Yes the new modern 4 strokes are way cool and way heavy and waaaaaaaay spendy, might have to do something like an older motor for the OB if it goes that way. Am not going to a 12K motor on a boat I paid a grad for, just would not and does not feel right. I am just having a hard time getting on board with fixing up my outdrive and motor, it is bothering me bad at the moment. That all might change when it comes right down to it though, we will have to see.

I am also fishing mostly on the Columbia river and it has some ripping tides a lot of the time. Trolling on it can be a real PIA, I know a couple of guys that had electric trolling motors and they can't use them in the river as they are not strong enough to fight the current. Have seen a ton of boats on the river with 15 horses on them, not to many below that. And that is on 17 ft boats for the most part.

 

[Pugetsound]

Re: Hull aluminum thickness and outboard bracket question

SCE, i hope you do it and post pix (for those of us who can't afford the 2d mortgage for a modern OB ). i think GLG is dead on as far as getting a bracket that incorporates a flotation chamber.....4 stroke OBs are HEAVY....otherwise, you've just put the biggest mass in your boat on a long lever arm waaaay aft of your "center of flotation" (for want of a better term).

i'll be curious to see how close to the I/O you can come costwise, as you're right, it really would be like a 2' bigger boat (another way to rationalize the expenditure )

Kelly, with a GOOD reliable 25hp kicker, you won't need twins....they will just up your fuel costs massively and create 2x the maint expenses and things to possibly go wrong. check out this article:

http://www.transpeninsularoutfitters.com/articles-pages/boating/articles-boating-twinvsingle.html

Right on good response 18 ft with a 150 even, great combo. and a kicker I see 26 ft boats in the Ocean with 9.9 kickers often. With a high thrust prop set up of course.

 

[veilside180sx]

Re: Hull aluminum thickness and outboard bracket question

Almost every 17-20 ft boat I've fished on the Big C/Willy with...has had a 8-9.9 hp motor. That goes for everyone else I know that fishes that body of water as well.

Alumaweld, Hewescraft, Duckworth, Thunderjet, North River, etc.

My build is still under way but I'll be using a 8 hp Merc 2 stroke for a kicker.

Well I am just kicking around the idea right now, the admiral is kind of trying to do a blockade on me. So we will see how things go. The only reason I was thinking of the 25 kicker is because it is a freebe. Hard to turn down something like that that is free for the taking. Yes the new modern 4 strokes are way cool and way heavy and waaaaaaaay spendy, might have to do something like an older motor for the OB if it goes that way. Am not going to a 12K motor on a boat I paid a grad for, just would not and does not feel right. I am just having a hard time getting on board with fixing up my outdrive and motor, it is bothering me bad at the moment. That all might change when it comes right down to it though, we will have to see.

I am also fishing mostly on the Columbia river and it has some ripping tides a lot of the time. Trolling on it can be a real PIA, I know a couple of guys that had electric trolling motors and they can't use them in the river as they are not strong enough to fight the current. Have seen a ton of boats on the river with 15 horses on them, not to many below that. And that is on 17 ft boats for the most part.

 

[GLG fishing]

Re: Hull aluminum thickness and outboard bracket question

Kelly I see your point. An 8-hp would be too small for your boat on that river. Perhaps the free motor would be OK. Is the shaft length correct? If so you could try it and see if it works. If it doesn?t you might be able to trade for a 15-hp. You would need a strong bracket to hold a kicker that size also.

I hear you on the repower. I went back and forth when my boat needed new power. I rebuilt the motor (cheaper) but ended up wishing I would have converted or found a more modern I/O. I still get out there and fish but waiting for the next thing to fix is not as fun any more. I have always had outboards. This is my first and last I/O. For me the places I go and the fishing I do an outboard makes way more sense. Live and learn.

GLG

 

[Starcraft Enterprise]

Re: Hull aluminum thickness and outboard bracket question

I am kind of ignorant about outboards made after about 1980. I need some recomendations on which outboard to buy.
My main concerns are weight, OMC being out of business, FICHT, VRO reliability, Mercury's tilt pump being mounted in the boat considering the distance with the transom bracket, the plastic oil pump gears failing on Mercury's oil injection pump, a Mariner being a Force design instead of a Mercury, etc. I know absolutely nothing about Yamaha's, Suzuki's or Tohatsu's.
I realize no outboard is full proof, just looking at all the pro's and cons of different models and years in order to know what to search for. If you know something about a particular model and the year or years of manufacture, please share. If you stumble across a good example, please post it.
Want 200 hp, must have oil injection and looking to spend about $1500 - $3000. I think I need a 20" shaft for my relatively short transom height.

 

[ezmobee]

Re: Hull aluminum thickness and outboard bracket question

OMCs are pretty much fully supported with parts by BRP so I wouldn't avoid them. The FICHT motors were problematic but even there I think it was only a couple years worth of them and if proper updates were made to them they were fine. I don't think any Mariner in the size range you're looking at is any part Force. Yamahas are of course great motors. Suzukis are good too. Tohatsu doesn't make a motor in your size range.

 

[jasoutside]

Re: Hull aluminum thickness and outboard bracket question

Man, if you could find a good running, late model 200 for under $3K that would be cool! $4500ish for a total OB repower - not too shabby.

I'll need to ride the bench and watch you guys play ball with that sorta $ though, bummer.

 

[KellyC]

Re: Hull aluminum thickness and outboard bracket question

Well as far as the repower goes, I don't know a thing about I/B or O/b for that matter. I was just thinking what would be easier and probably cheaper in the long run.

I was also wondering if the 25 would be to big or not. I was just thinking about it because it was free.

Ok guys, for those that know. What would be a good O/B in the 150-200 pony range? It is going to have to be a 2 stroke due to the price of the 4 poppers. Don't really want to run a mix if I can help it but will if that is all I can find.

Yes veilside180sx I have seen the same as you are saying, just have also seen a lot with bigger is all I was saying. And several guys I talked to wanted bigger than the 9's, just said they did not really care for them. The guys I did talk to were not that talkative either, been fishing all day and not a single bite. So they were not in the greatest of moods at the time, and the fact that I was standing there with 2 salmon between 13-18 lbs did not help either.

 

[ezmobee]

Re: Hull aluminum thickness and outboard bracket question

What would be a good O/B in the 150-200 pony range?

All the carb ones are fine. I think pre-'02 FICHT motors are questionable as well as some years of Optimaxes. However, I would think that any FICHT or Optibombs from the troublesome time period that are still running have most likely had the required updates applied to them.